551 réponses à ce sujet

[Fidget6]

A big part of Mass Effect's world IS about tension between the different species, just as a big part of Dragon Age's world is tension between the different races (and mages and templars etc.) so of course Ash isn't the only one that's a bit racist. She's just the most blatantly prejudiced crew member.

[Collider]

Ashley has one entire conversation that has to do with aliens.
Specifically, she has more dialog about aliens than any other squad mate because it's that plus all of her ambient dialog (or in other words, the dialog when you take her along on missions).

And as I quoted, Ashley randomly brings up race during the romance confrontation with Liara. Just out of nowhere.

[DoNotIngest]

mrsph wrote...

Maybe Wrex deserved a good killing.

Woah woah woah woah woah woah woah woah woah...




WHAT?




Did you not play Mass Effect 1?





Wrex...

[BluMighty]

V-rex wrote...

It's here:

Thanks, man.

Like I said before, this topic was more about the crew members attitude towards racism than about Ashley, but this does make rethink some things about her character.

[NuclearBuddha]

Valentia X wrote...
Six of one, half a dozen of the other? The council sided with the humans and the batarians pulled an epic flounce, complete with hair toss.

That is a glorious description of what happened.  And then they went back to their room, slammed the door, and had a nice good sulk.

[Youknow]

Seboist wrote...

Youknow wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Ashley was completely right about being suspicious about an alien racial caste clique (the council) and about letting a thug mercenary krogan and a hot headed turian ex-cop run amok on the Normandy unsupervised.

However, she doesn't say: "Sheperd, are you sure we should be letting thugs and ex-cops on the ship? Neither of them have military experience." Which is exactly why there are dialogue options to reflec that. It's literally not concern for their past occupations. It extends from their species. And it really does get old. Especially IRL where you might hate your own skin complexion for Ashley-like comments. 

In the Mass Effect world species = nation. There's no Systems Alliance ambassador but a human ambassador and so on and so forth. Based on that none of what Ashley says is bigoted.

Normandy is part Turian built and was established as a forms of a repairing relationships. It's the best of human tech and turian tech. Wrex is a merc that begins and ends with money, which would honestly make him easier to control than a lot of other people that could join you. Unless he shoved you into a wall when you recruited him, there's not much reason for Ashley to say this. Furthermore, they've done nothing to make there any reason to question their trustworthiness. If you build up a wall like that around people and don't give some rope, you'll have no allies. No allies makes it easier for you to be weak. I'm all for being patriotic, but there's a fine line between patriotic and idiotic.

Regardless of that, that STILL doesn't address the part where I said she doesn't question their occupations. But their species. What does that have to do with their nation? Nothing. I wouldn't see a person that's a different race at my job and say "Oh, are you sure he can handle the money... He's not one of us." That's a recipe for disaster. 

Also, to V-Rex: I'm pretty sure the nine conversations only appear if you are male Sheperd. Female doesn't get all of them IIRC. 

[Gavinthelocust]

mrsph wrote...

Kaidan is racist.

Comparing humans to aliens, what am I supposed to believe I'm just like a bird monster? NO.

They don't even have funny bumps on their females!

[S.A.K]

King Zeel wrote...

Your argument would apply if we were dealing with the sane side of Bioware fans, but we aren't. The type of people who attack Ashley, don't need a logical reason to do it.

So I guess you are the sane side of BW fans. Gimmi a brake!
They don't have logical reason to attack Ashly but I guess you got logical reason to attack people who like the aliens?

[King Zeel]

Gavinthelocust wrote...

King Zeel wrote...

I also read your post v-rex and while I think you bring up good points. I dont think it's nearly as intricate as you make it sound. Your argument would apply if we were dealing with the sane side of Bioware fans, but we aren't. The type of people who attack Ashley, don't need a logical reason to do it. They only need their LI as some sort of buffer for their argument.

I don't know why you guys are wasting time trying to rationalize how these girls think. It's exactly as I put it; they need a method to validate their game relationship, so they go on the offensive.

it's the same thing with the s/s relationships, its not enough to just get a new character, they have to have all of them

You are using the Bill O' Riley tactic there.
"Bioware fan girls want to destroy innocent characters and turn them gay because their imaginary insane love interest told them to! All they want to do is manipulate the game to their own twisted fanfic fantasy and trash characters who dared to be an optional romance so they can get off. They have no logic or lives they just want to destroy the fun of the average player!"
It's not like that, if you actually want to see the Bioware underbelly in action just bring up something good on the DA2 forums and watch the flames.

I know in their hearts they believe the characters are gay.

[NuclearBuddha]

I'd suggest that maybe we focus on Ash because she's human, and we expect our own kind to be better than that. You know, put your own house in order before you look into someone else's.

[BluMighty]

mrsph wrote...

Kaidan is racist.

Comparing humans to aliens, what am I supposed to believe I'm just like a bird monster? NO.

 God damn it, man. I was drinking when I read that. This is going to take me 20 minutes.

[Raiil]

BluMighty wrote...

Valentia X wrote...
I could. But it's not a focus of their character. Ashley's latent distrust- whether you think it's justified or not, I won't say who is right or wrong- of aliens is a part of her. After the clusterf--k of bad press her dad or granddad went through for surrendering, it's something that's at least somewhat ingrained. She focuses on it enough that people picked up on it more.

I find the vast majority of characters, if not racist, then more focused and partial to their own race and culture. The people you pick up tend to be somewhat different- Thane's concern for the human innocents, Samara has a distinct fondness for humans and their culture- but even then, their concern, largely, for humans is through either the collector threat or out of personal loyalty to Shepard instead of 'innocents are disappearing, we must do something!'

It's like a window into today's society. I don't see much difference.

Still, you chose to mention how chilling it was to hear Ashley say those things....How it hit close to home? Is not what Garrus said also somewhat familiar? I know I've heard a lot of "not-racists" say that second line.

Because it was quite similiar to stuff I've heard before. 


You need a personal example? Oh, the aliens will use us? My grandmother said the same thing about my mother (Korean) when my parents first got married.

The Ashley and Liara confrontation? I've never had a showdown like that (too lazy for that s--t lol) but I've been told to back off because I wasn't the 'right' race.

Garrus doesn't talk about it nearly as often, he even admits that his perception is wrong in the first video, and it's not part and parcel of his character in the same way it is for Ashley.

[V-rex]

Collider wrote...

Ashley has one entire conversation that has to do with aliens.

Actually, it isn't. There's actually a huge bit in the middle that most people don't ever notice where if you say the right thing, Ashley brings up her past history training and she and Shepard remark that they both served under Gunnery Sergenent Ellison. Shepard then starts talking about Ashley's military record, asks why a soldier with such decorated history as herself has only been given crap assignments and Ashley goes quiet.
Yes, her distrust of aliens plays a major part of that conversation but it's not ALL the conversation is about, is it?

Plus, Grunt has a whole 'I hate Turians' realization that takes up a whole section of conversation, Tali won't shut up about her hating the Geth and Mordin keeps mentioning the Krogan. Ashley is hardly alone.

Specifically, she has more dialog about aliens than any other squad mate because it's that plus all of her ambient dialog (or in other words, the dialog when you take her along on missions).

The only line of ambient dialogue that people tell me about is the line about being unable to tell the aliens from the animals (a line that was glitched and only meant to be said around the Keepers incidently) otherwise it's just wise cracks and remarks about the place like anyone else.

And as I quoted, Ashley randomly brings up race during the romance confrontation with Liara. Just out of nowhere.

Possibly because she's confused by how Shepard would find an alien attractive considering they ARE completely different species. A lot of this stuff is new to her, plus Ashley was pissed off and when people are pissed off they say stupid things.
Ashley does remark that she was mad at SHEPARD, not LIARA, in that confrontation. But that's only if she's the one who was picked.

Modifié par V-rex, 26 juin 2011 - 04:59 .

[Fidget6]

BluMighty wrote...

V-rex wrote...

It's here:

Thanks, man.

Like I said before, this topic was more about the crew members attitude towards racism than about Ashley, but this does make rethink some things about her character.

Definitely. No matter what your opinion is on Ashley, you've got to admit she's an extremely well-written and layered character.

[Collider]

Possibly because she's confused by how Shepard would find an alien attractive considering they ARE completely different species.

Ashley must have kept her eyes closed on the Citadel, because everywhere you turn there is an asari flirting or in a relationship with another species. Including humans, who are watching the asari dancers in Chora's Den. For Ashely not to get the picture that humans are attracted to asari would be incredibly dense.

Modifié par Collider, 26 juin 2011 - 05:00 .

[ADLegend21]

slydfoxxy wrote...

Because she isn't even open minded about it at all and seems disgusted by them, sure she was in a team with them but if she had the choice she wouldn't have been.

It's people like her who cause society to stagnate as they don't want change or to move forward.

That is just my opinion anyway.

yeah shems so closed minded when she leads an StG unit to the aA tower on virmire also closed minded when she says tell me to kiss a turian and ill ask which cheek. totes closed minded there.

[S.A.K]

V-rex wrote...

Actually, it isn't. There's actually a huge bit in the middle that most people don't ever notice where if you say the right thing, Ashley brings up her past history training and she and Shepard remark that they both served under Gunnery Sergenent Ellison. Shepard then starts talking about Ashley's military record, asks why a soldier with such decorated history as herself has only been given crap assignments and Ashley goes quiet.
Yes, her distrust of aliens plays a major part of that conversation but it's not ALL the conversation is about, is it?

Plus, Grunt has a whole 'I hate Turians' realization that takes up a whole section of conversation, Tali won't shut up about her hating the Geth and Mordin keeps mentioning the Krogan. Ashley is hardly alone.

Grunt has some real reason to hate Turians because of the Genophage. And Tali hates Geth because they killed billions of her people. Mordin never says anything to suggest he hate anyone(If he does please give me a link). But why does Ashly hate aliens?

[V-rex]

Collider wrote...

Possibly because she's confused by how Shepard would find an alien attractive considering they ARE completely different species.

Ashley must have kept her eyes closed on the Citadel, because everywhere you turn there is an asari flirting or in a relationship with another species. Including humans, who are watching the asari dancers. For Ashely not to get the picture that humans are attracted to asari would be incredibly dense.

You can see something happen, and be aware that it does happen, and still be confused by it you know.

I mean I know there are people out there who marry Japanese body pillows... that doesn't mean I'd be able to understand why they would.

Admittedly that's a bit of an unfair analogy but still I think you get what I mean by this.

[DoNotIngest]

Michael, I was gonna comment on your profile, but since I can't... That screen pic is full of Wynne.



Forever alone, Jacob.

[Gavinthelocust]

michaelrsa wrote...

I want them to be.

No man can resist the sheer sexuality exuded from Garrus Vakarian.

Every guy in town is preparing some analgesic in case of chafing if you know what I mean.