551 réponses à ce sujet

[S.A.K]

V-rex wrote...

mrsph wrote...

This.

Racism comes in many flavors.

I like strawberry racism.

But seriously yes, I agree with you. There are many forms of racism and if I were to agree with a specific form of racism for Ashley I would classify it as both 'mild' and capable of being fixed. The kind of thing that you just need to have a long enough conversation with someone to try and help them see the error of their ways.
Subsequently, that can happen.

Yup no character in ME is rasist to an Extremist level. So I think they can be changed.

[Collider]

"No one should have to feel like they aren't good enough to get what they want."

That is not retracting her statement.
It is a nice thought of her, but does not in anyway run contradictory to what she already said. She has the vantage point of winning, yet still does not apologize and take back what she said about being incapable of being jealous of aliens.

As has been stated, there are varying shades of racist. Ashley is not the racist popularized in the media as being in cults and organized groups. But she is racist, and prejudice, as I see it. It doesn't make her a terrible person, it just makes her misguided.

[V-rex]

Youknow wrote...
snip

For what it's worth. I also agree, I admit that there are potential racist tendancies in Ashley's character. Usually I'm not trying to argue that she doesn't have any, just that it's not as bad as people say it it.

Incidently I also agree in relation to the whole 'flaws' argument, the fact that Ashley is a character who I'm not being forced to like the whole way through like a Mary sue is a major reason why I like her.

Modifié par V-rex, 26 juin 2011 - 05:27 .

[BluMighty]

Collider wrote...

"No one should have to feel like they aren't good enough to get what they want."

That is not retracting her statement.
It is a nice thought of her, but does not in anyway run contradictory to what she already said. She has the vantage point of winning, yet still does not apologize and take back what she said about being incapable of being jealous of aliens.

As has been stated, there are varying shades of racist. Ashley is not the racist popularized in the media as being in cults and organized groups. But she is racist, and prejudice, as I see it. It doesn't make her a terrible person, it just makes her misguided.

We don't see Garrus apologizing to Wrex or Tali either.

[V-rex]

Collider wrote...

As has been stated, there are varying shades of racist. Ashley is not the racist popularized in the media as being in cults and organized groups. But she is racist, and prejudice, as I see it. It doesn't make her a terrible person, it just makes her misguided.

Fair enough. I can agree with most of this.

[DoNotIngest]

Whether she was intended to or not, Ashley stood out as the most racist character to me. Now, I say that, but the rest of them weren't very predjudiced, for the most part, at least not without very good reason. I never said she was a die-hard Anti-Alien Alliance member (ucwutididthar?).


Of course, it didn't help her that she was the one to kill Wrex, either. It makes sense, as she's the most racist of the companions, but that she would step up and kill Wrex before any others (Garrus comes to mind) is certainly a black mark.

Modifié par DoNotIngest, 26 juin 2011 - 05:32 .

[V-rex]

S.A.K wrote...

Yup no character in ME is rasist to an Extremist level. So I think they can be changed.

I don't know, I think Grunt, who has almost erotic fantasies of torturing and killing Salarians and Turians MIGHT need a little bit of extra assistance in that department....

[Collider]

BluMighty wrote...
We don't see Garrus apologizing to Wrex or Tali either.

Nope. But as has been said earlier, Garrus & Wrex don't talk about general aliens as much as Ashley does. That's why Ashley is focused on as "the" racist character. Her thoughts on aliens in general is a HUGE part of her character, unlike the other squad mates. It is her hook.

It's kind of like, why do people talk about Kaidan's biotics more than Jacob's biotics? That's simple. Biotics is part of Kaidan's character, whereas Jacob mentions his biotics once and that's it.

[V-rex]

Double post.

[BluMighty]

Collider wrote...

BluMighty wrote...
We don't see Garrus apologizing to Wrex or Tali either.

Nope. But as has been said earlier, Garrus & Wrex don't talk about general aliens as much as Ashley does. That's why Ashley is focused on as "the" racist character. Her thoughts on aliens in general is a HUGE part of her character, unlike the other squad mates. It is her hook.

It's kind of like, why do people talk about Kaidan's biotics more than Jacob's biotics? That's simple. Biotics is part of Kaidan's character, whereas Jacob mentions his biotics once and that's it.

Still, once again, they (Garrus, Wrex, Tali, and even Liara) do say racist things. From where I stand, they also have racist tendencies. MAYBE less than so than Ashley (Which is tough to say, since Liara makes a lot of ignorant comments about humans, and Tali is vocal about her hate of the Geth), but they have those racist tendencies nonetheless. 

Do you disagree with this? 

[Youknow]

V-rex wrote...

S.A.K wrote...

Yup no character in ME is rasist to an Extremist level. So I think they can be changed.

I don't know, I think Grunt, who has almost erotic fantasies of torturing and killing Salarians and Turians MIGHT need a little bit of extra assistance in that department....

Yeah, his is almost disturbing how he's like "Oh... I hate Turians! I get it now! :lol:"

[BluMighty]

I'm also surprised that no one brought up Lord Jaric's post. It seems like her writer is saying that it's a bit much to simply write off Ashley as a racist.

[CroGamer002]

Because aliens are kewl and humans suck and are all racist.

Modifié par Mesina2, 26 juin 2011 - 05:39 .

[DoNotIngest]

Mesina2 wrote...

Because aliens are kewl and humans suck and are all racist.

I concur.


"You humans are all Racist!"


-Cool, reasonable alien talking to ugly C-SEC human b!tch

[lovgreno]

No one in the crew is realy a racist. Some of them, like Ashley, have a understandable scepticism against aliens (wich is some cases means humans) but that is not the same thing as racism. Well Grunt may be an exception.

[CroGamer002]

michaelrsa wrote...

Take her line "I'm no fan of aliens"

Replace "aliens" with "blacks", "jews", "asians" or any other race and it's pretty damn racist.

No it isn't.

[VegasVance]

Also to those who think of Grunt as "racist". He is an equal opportunity vat-bred killing machine.

[Iakus]

V-rex wrote...

Youknow wrote...
snip

For what it's worth. I also agree, I admit that there are potential racist tendancies in Ashley's character. Usually I'm not trying to argue that she doesn't have any, just that it's not as bad as people say it it.

Incidently I also agree in relation to the whole 'flaws' argument, the fact that Ashley is a character who I'm not being forced to like the whole way through like a Mary sue is a major reason why I like her.

"I don't think humans have some kind of divine mandate, if that's what you mean. I don't think humans are superior"

"I don't think we should turn down allies. I just don't think we should bet on them staying allies"

Ash is a pessimist.  She sees other people as primarily looking out for themselves.  What she sees in aliens, she also sees in humans.  Humans will look out for human interests.  Asari will look out for asari interests.  And so on.  She doesn't see all these interests as always lining up the same direction.  She's cautious about trusting fearing betrayal when "the bear" shows up (and people think Kaidan is like Carth )

And whatever she thinks of Liara or asari in general, she is capable of feeling compassion for aliens:

"If you haven't talked to Dr. T'Soni, you probably should. She just lost her mom. That has to hurt."

And yes, this degree of complexity in a character makes her my favorite in the ME series.  She's a decent person. But with a dark view of the world.  The way she balances that is very cool.  And I love being able to "nudge" her towards trusting the Council a little more.  

[Iakus]

Mesina2 wrote...

Because aliens are kewl and humans suck and are all racist.

"You humans need to learn your place"  

[The dead fish]

iakus wrote...

V-rex wrote...

Youknow wrote...
snip

For what it's worth. I also agree, I admit that there are potential racist tendancies in Ashley's character. Usually I'm not trying to argue that she doesn't have any, just that it's not as bad as people say it it.

Incidently I also agree in relation to the whole 'flaws' argument, the fact that Ashley is a character who I'm not being forced to like the whole way through like a Mary sue is a major reason why I like her.

"I don't think humans have some kind of divine mandate, if that's what you mean. I don't think humans are superior"

"I don't think we should turn down allies. I just don't think we should bet on them staying allies"

Ash is a pessimist.  She sees other people as primarily looking out for themselves.  What she sees in aliens, she also sees in humans.  Humans will look out for human interests.  Asari will look out for asari interests.  And so on.  She doesn't see all these interests as always lining up the same direction.  She's cautious about trusting fearing betrayal when "the bear" shows up (and people think Kaidan is like Carth )

And whatever she thinks of Liara or asari in general, she is capable of feeling compassion for aliens:

"If you haven't talked to Dr. T'Soni, you probably should. She just lost her mom. That has to hurt."

And yes, this degree of complexity in a character makes her my favorite in the ME series.  She's a decent person. But with a dark view of the world.  The way she balances that is very cool.  And I love being able to "nudge" her towards trusting the Council a little more.  

This. And that's why, she's the best writting in mass effect' series.
In truth few understand the complexity of her character. <3

And for Liara, she's jealous, she launched the first offensive remark comes into her head to Shepard. And her mistrust toward aliens is totally justified in 2183. And she's right on several points.

We are not in a world of Care Bears, buddy-buddy folks. The universe is complex, dark and rough. Each species is working on its development, and for its interests. The Council too, especially the Council.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 26 juin 2011 - 06:10 .

[RO-Bear]

Hey, it's fiction. Why do you think these people play the game in the first place? First mention of anything realistic and reasonable is baaaaad >

[DoNotIngest]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Collider wrote...

And as I quoted, Ashley randomly brings up race during the romance confrontation with Liara. Just out of nowhere.

Out of nowhere? Last I checked this had to do with an alien. You know, that blue one with the freckles.

...Who hadn't just been talking about how dumb humans look with that seaweed growing out of their flat, non-tentacly heads...

[AresXX7]

bobobo878 wrote...

The other crewmembers may make racist remarks from time to time, but Ashley is the only one who murders Wrex.

I find it strange when people bring this up, and word it this way.

From what I've seen on YouTube, she doesn't murder Wrex, Shepard signals her to take him out, if s/he cannot or chooses not to talk him down. In other words, she is following Shepard's orders.

(I had to watch it on YT because I've never had, or chosen to kill Wrex - he's too cool to kill )