77 réponses à ce sujet

[Rockworm503]

I don't care why the Wii is successful. It doesn't matter because it doesn't affect me as a gamer.
I still have big hardcore games like Skyrim to enjoy and really dig into and Nintendo catering to a crowd different from me does not hurt me in the slightest.
Thats what bugs me about some people's attitude. Its like I'm not interested in Nintendo's gimmick translates to anyone who uses it is an idiot and is ruining the game industry.
You miss the hayday of the 90s? Why? You miss the days when gaming was considered a kids thing altogether? You miss the days when the most hardcore games could be finished in an hour?

Am I the only person who believes we can have our big blockbuster games without ruining it for the Angry Birds crowd?  And visa versa?

Modifié par Rockworm503, 18 décembre 2011 - 03:53 .

[chrisuuuu]

Does anyone have stats comparing console game sales this generation compared to last generation? Is it down, up, even?

[slimgrin]

greengoron89 wrote...

It's sort of depressing that society has most people so busy in the first place that they rarely get the time to sit down and enjoy a damn good video game - but that's a whole other topic entirely.

I wish I had the link. It was on old school dev, I think the guy who made the Ultima games, who said casual/social gaming would eventually rule the day. He's probably right. Why would devs make an enormously complex game like Skyrim, when they can make tripe like Angry Birds, and get just as much money?

[chrisuuuu]

Rockworm503 wrote...

I don't care why the Wii is successful. It doesn't matter because it doesn't affect me as a gamer.
I still have big hardcore games like Skyrim to enjoy and really dig into and Nintendo catering to a crowd different from me does not hurt me in the slightest.
Thats what bugs me about some people's attitude. Its like I'm not interested in Nintendo's gimmick translates to anyone who uses it is an idiot and is ruining the game industry.
You miss the hayday of the 90s? Why? You miss the days when gaming was considered a kids thing altogether? You miss the days when the most hardcore games could be finished in an hour?

Am I the only person who believes we can have our big blockbuster games without ruining it for the Angry Birds crowd?  And visa versa?

huh? were you around gaming in the 90s? compared to 90s gaming, gaming today is a piece of cake. Difficulty is scaled down to the lowest common denominator nowadays. Remember when jrpgs had insane hour completion rates? Many of the most difficult games in existence came from the 80s and 90s. People nowadays complain about Demon Soul's difficulty...pshh

Modifié par chrisuuuu, 18 décembre 2011 - 04:01 .

[naughty99]

I must admit I have a lot of difficulty understanding the massive appeal of games like Skyward Sword after watching the low-poly gameplay footage and trailers with light-hearted art style; however, isn't the Wii-U supposed to be able to render games at 1920x1080 resolution, making it far superior in visual quality to the Xbox360 and PS3?

I thought the Wii-U was supposed to be a platform for more technically complex or demanding games?

Modifié par naughty99, 18 décembre 2011 - 04:03 .

[chrisuuuu]

greengoron89 wrote...

chrisuuuu wrote...

Does anyone have stats comparing console game sales this generation compared to last generation? Is it down, up, even?

What do you mean? Actual console sales, or just game sales?

For consoles, Wii has slain the Gamecube in sales by about 67 million units, but both the PS1 and PS2 still have yet to be outsold by any of the consoles from this generation.

You can read more here if you'd like:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Console_wars

sorry, should have clarified more. I meant software sales

[Rockworm503]

chrisuuuu wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

I don't care why the Wii is successful. It doesn't matter because it doesn't affect me as a gamer.
I still have big hardcore games like Skyrim to enjoy and really dig into and Nintendo catering to a crowd different from me does not hurt me in the slightest.
Thats what bugs me about some people's attitude. Its like I'm not interested in Nintendo's gimmick translates to anyone who uses it is an idiot and is ruining the game industry.
You miss the hayday of the 90s? Why? You miss the days when gaming was considered a kids thing altogether? You miss the days when the most hardcore games could be finished in an hour?

Am I the only person who believes we can have our big blockbuster games without ruining it for the Angry Birds crowd?  And visa versa?

huh? were you around gaming in the 90s? compared to 90s gaming, gaming today is a piece of cake. Difficulty is scaled down to the lowest common denominator nowadays. Remember when jrpgs had insane hour completion rates? Many of the most difficult games in existence came from the 80s and 90s. People nowadays complain about Demon Soul's difficulty...pshh

Yeah I guess you're a masochist.  The games I grew up with Mario, Megaman were not all that hard and I'm not looking to be punished for every little thing.
did you complain about Ninja Gaiden being too easy or something?
There has to be a line between difficulty and fun.  If the game's too hard then why am I playing it?  Some game designers laughing their asses off over insane difficulty isn't my idea of a cup of tea doesn't mean I want my hand held either just for the record.

[naughty99]

chrisuuuu wrote...

greengoron89 wrote...

chrisuuuu wrote...

Does anyone have stats comparing console game sales this generation compared to last generation? Is it down, up, even?

What do you mean? Actual console sales, or just game sales?

For consoles, Wii has slain the Gamecube in sales by about 67 million units, but both the PS1 and PS2 still have yet to be outsold by any of the consoles from this generation.

You can read more here if you'd like:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Console_wars

sorry, should have clarified more. I meant software sales

here is a chart from Intel showing a breakdown of the software sales by platform from 2009 to (projected) 2013

http://software.inte...3/Picture21.png

Modifié par naughty99, 18 décembre 2011 - 04:10 .

[DRUNK_CANADIAN]

Rockworm503 wrote...

I don't care why the Wii is successful. It doesn't matter because it doesn't affect me as a gamer.
I still have big hardcore games like Skyrim to enjoy and really dig into and Nintendo catering to a crowd different from me does not hurt me in the slightest.
Thats what bugs me about some people's attitude. Its like I'm not interested in Nintendo's gimmick translates to anyone who uses it is an idiot and is ruining the game industry.
You miss the hayday of the 90s? Why? You miss the days when gaming was considered a kids thing altogether? You miss the days when the most hardcore games could be finished in an hour?

Am I the only person who believes we can have our big blockbuster games without ruining it for the Angry Birds crowd?  And visa versa?

Gaming has never really been "a kids thing," reality is it hasn't been around long enough, although the adopters were generally younger and more niche, now you have people in their 40s+ picking up videogames, which is different to what was originally typical of the group...And long games do not make good games, eating a delicious sweet roll takes but a few moments, eating a pile of horse crap collected from all the horses of the stable takes quite a longer amount of time, but which would you rather eat? Also we can still get good games, my point is it is becoming much less common, with shifting market direction (thanks to the casual/general public market being largely successful).

Also I own a Wii too, haven't played it recently, but I hate the gimmicky BS about it, as such most my few games are non-motion controlled, Smash Brothers & Mario Kart (no wheel), I also own the much less popular GC, Nintendo 64, SNES. Never had the NES. The point I am making is Nintendo is doing what almost any company would do, putting profit before quality, putting gimmicks in place of quality hardware, loading the system with shovelware as well as recycling their classics. I should note that Sony and Microsoft followed suit with their motion controls, so this isn't a Nintendo exclusive thing, however they seem to be pioneering the end of "hardcore gaming." That and as mentioned the casual games available for PC or mobile. Anyone who has been a gamer for even 10 years, maybe even less can see the changes within game design.
 

[chrisuuuu]

Rockworm503 wrote...

chrisuuuu wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

I don't care why the Wii is successful. It doesn't matter because it doesn't affect me as a gamer.
I still have big hardcore games like Skyrim to enjoy and really dig into and Nintendo catering to a crowd different from me does not hurt me in the slightest.
Thats what bugs me about some people's attitude. Its like I'm not interested in Nintendo's gimmick translates to anyone who uses it is an idiot and is ruining the game industry.
You miss the hayday of the 90s? Why? You miss the days when gaming was considered a kids thing altogether? You miss the days when the most hardcore games could be finished in an hour?

Am I the only person who believes we can have our big blockbuster games without ruining it for the Angry Birds crowd?  And visa versa?

huh? were you around gaming in the 90s? compared to 90s gaming, gaming today is a piece of cake. Difficulty is scaled down to the lowest common denominator nowadays. Remember when jrpgs had insane hour completion rates? Many of the most difficult games in existence came from the 80s and 90s. People nowadays complain about Demon Soul's difficulty...pshh

Yeah I guess you're a masochist.  The games I grew up with Mario, Megaman were not all that hard and I'm not looking to be punished for every little thing.
did you complain about Ninja Gaiden being too easy or something?
There has to be a line between difficulty and fun.  If the game's too hard then why am I playing it?  Some game designers laughing their asses off over insane difficulty isn't my idea of a cup of tea doesn't mean I want my hand held either just for the record.

No, it was a response to you implying that difficult games back then could be finished in an hour. If anything, there has been much discussion in general about the lack of difficulty found in a good portion of today's console gaming. If you factor in the iOS/Android casual game market, then it's even more pronounced. With exceptions, I don't mind having my games be somewhat difficult. I do like to get my money's worth, and a fair challenge is a great thing.

[chrisuuuu]

chrisuuuu wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

chrisuuuu wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

I don't care why the Wii is successful. It doesn't matter because it doesn't affect me as a gamer.
I still have big hardcore games like Skyrim to enjoy and really dig into and Nintendo catering to a crowd different from me does not hurt me in the slightest.
Thats what bugs me about some people's attitude. Its like I'm not interested in Nintendo's gimmick translates to anyone who uses it is an idiot and is ruining the game industry.
You miss the hayday of the 90s? Why? You miss the days when gaming was considered a kids thing altogether? You miss the days when the most hardcore games could be finished in an hour?

Am I the only person who believes we can have our big blockbuster games without ruining it for the Angry Birds crowd?  And visa versa?

huh? were you around gaming in the 90s? compared to 90s gaming, gaming today is a piece of cake. Difficulty is scaled down to the lowest common denominator nowadays. Remember when jrpgs had insane hour completion rates? Many of the most difficult games in existence came from the 80s and 90s. People nowadays complain about Demon Soul's difficulty...pshh

Yeah I guess you're a masochist.  The games I grew up with Mario, Megaman were not all that hard and I'm not looking to be punished for every little thing.
did you complain about Ninja Gaiden being too easy or something?
There has to be a line between difficulty and fun.  If the game's too hard then why am I playing it?  Some game designers laughing their asses off over insane difficulty isn't my idea of a cup of tea doesn't mean I want my hand held either just for the record.

No, it was a response to you implying that difficult games back then could be finished in an hour. If anything, there has been much discussion in general about the lack of difficulty found in a good portion of today's console gaming. If you factor in the iOS/Android casual game market, then it's even more pronounced. With exceptions, I don't mind having my games be somewhat difficult. I do like to get my money's worth, and a fair challenge is a great thing.

[Rockworm503]

I never said difficult games could be finished in an hour. I was saying that many games i played could.
Megaman is a perfect example. As much as I love the old Megaman games they were extremely short and after a while you weren't playing a game but just going through the motions just out of memory.
I've said before that nostalgia is a powerful thing so if you let it it will decide whats good for you before you even make the call yourself.
I don't see games being all that easier these days. Maybe there is more handholding but really back in the old days you ran through a level and fought a boss and moved on.
Now with games giving bigger narratives and pathways to take and replay value up the butt the trade off more than makes up for it.
I don't know maybe I'm way to opinionated but I'm just as excited about games today as I was 15 - 20 years ago.

[Zanallen]

greengoron89 wrote...

Man, I have to agree with chris that games nowadays are a cakewalk compared to a lot of the older games.

Someone mentioned Ninja Gaiden (Xbox reboot) - while that game was no doubt a cut above the rest in the difficulty department, it's nothing compared to the original games on NES. Those games were punishingly difficult in ways that no Ninja Gaiden game since could ever hope to be.

Then there's the Contra games, Ghosts n' Goblins (and its sequel), Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, and so much more - please, I'll take the battle with Alma and Halo on Legendary difficulty any day.

Ninja Gaiden was pointlessly difficult though. There were segments where it just seemed like the developers were trolling gamers. Like those parts where you had to jump a gap, but an enemy would attack just then and the knockback would send you off the cliff.

[Ecto-Plasmic Effect]

I don't understand. Why does the controller have a screen on it?

[Zanallen]

Ecto-Plasmic Effect wrote...

I don't understand. Why does the controller have a screen on it?

Its a take on the dual screen function of the DS.

[Rockworm503]

Zanallen wrote...

greengoron89 wrote...

Man, I have to agree with chris that games nowadays are a cakewalk compared to a lot of the older games.

Someone mentioned Ninja Gaiden (Xbox reboot) - while that game was no doubt a cut above the rest in the difficulty department, it's nothing compared to the original games on NES. Those games were punishingly difficult in ways that no Ninja Gaiden game since could ever hope to be.

Then there's the Contra games, Ghosts n' Goblins (and its sequel), Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, and so much more - please, I'll take the battle with Alma and Halo on Legendary difficulty any day.

Ninja Gaiden was pointlessly difficult though. There were segments where it just seemed like the developers were trolling gamers. Like those parts where you had to jump a gap, but an enemy would attack just then and the knockback would send you off the cliff.

Yeah theres another thing right there.  I'm all for difficulty in games but there's a point where the game just isn't fun anymore.  I heard people say that Demon's souls is actually easy to them?  And then they go on to say Dark Souls is supposed to be harder?  Yay when I killed the 2nd boss in Demon's Souls I turned off my PS3 and haven't touched the game since.  Its just so daunting and insanely hard that I have to be in a very specific mood to enjoy it and thats rare.
Like I said there needs to be a balance.  Not too easy and not too hard.

[Some Geth]

 Ninja Gaiden(the new games) are not hard(for me anyway).

I also love hard games just for the fun of them, IWBTG made me so happy(no joke).

[Rockworm503]

greengoron89 wrote...

I loved Ninja Gaiden (the "Black" edition). It was difficult, but it was also damn good fun - I think that's the balance you're talking about, Rock (either that, or I'm a masochist).

I actually hate that the game makes you play on Normal first - Hard mode is the only way to play it, IMHO.

Eh I'll take your word for it.  I played a demo and forgot about it never touched it since.
My friend rented it and told me how he got so frusterated just on normal that he took the game back before finishing it he said "I wasn't having any fun with it anymore I just didn't see any point of continuing"

Your balance might be different than my balance.

One thing we can be rid of is fill up the screen with directions when you already know what to do.
Batman Arkham City is a perfect example of this.  You don't get the blade dodge right every f-ing time so the game feels the need to remind you exactly how to do it even though you know exactly how to do it you just have trouble pulling it off.
Oh yeah use quick fire batarangs on those switches?  I wish I knew how to do that 3 hours into the game... Oh wait I do.
A game can teach you the mechanics without overloading you.
This video is perfect to illustrate this and I thank DominusVita for bringing it to my attention.

[Arcadian Legend]

Why is everyone calling it a remote? It's a controller/game pad-thing. It does look unwieldy but from what I hear of people who handled one during the Zelda playable tech demo at E3 it's actually quite comfortable to hold and use.

[chrisuuuu]

Rockworm503 wrote...

I never said difficult games could be finished in an hour. I was saying that many games i played could.
Megaman is a perfect example. As much as I love the old Megaman games they were extremely short and after a while you weren't playing a game but just going through the motions just out of memory. I've said before that nostalgia is a powerful thing so if you let it it will decide whats good for you before you even make the call yourself.
I don't see games being all that easier these days. Maybe there is more handholding but really back in the old days you ran through a level and fought a boss and moved on.
Now with games giving bigger narratives and pathways to take and replay value up the butt the trade off more than makes up for it.
I don't know maybe I'm way to opinionated but I'm just as excited about games today as I was 15 - 20 years ago.

The same can definitely be said of today's gaming concerning going through the motions. Why do you think many people call this time  the casual gaming era?  Casual gaming is supposed to have VERY low difficulty to get as many people initially involved as possible. Personally don't like it but it's an absolute brilliant marketing move. I saw everyone and their grandma (literally) get up and take part in Nintendo WII Sports lol. Look at the two games that have utterly dominated gaming year, CoD: MW3 and Angry Birds. Angry Birds is so ridiculously easy and if going through the motions had a poster boy, AB would be it. If anyone is looking for a long, though-out campaign in CoD, they will be sorely dissapointed. A lot of rpgs this generation had a completion time for first playthrough of 20-40 hours. I remember tons of 90s rpgs had insane playthrough completion times...50,60,70 hours. As for the last point I don't need nostalgia to figure out that:

Half Life > Call of Duty
Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy VI > Final Fantasy XIII, FInal Fantasy XIII-2
Planescape Torment > Dragon Age II
Secret of Monkey Island > pc adventure games released today (if we are even lucky to get any)

Modifié par chrisuuuu, 18 décembre 2011 - 03:26 .

[chrisuuuu]

chrisuuuu wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

I never said difficult games could be finished in an hour. I was saying that many games i played could.
Megaman is a perfect example. As much as I love the old Megaman games they were extremely short and after a while you weren't playing a game but just going through the motions just out of memory.
I've said before that nostalgia is a powerful thing so if you let it it will decide whats good for you before you even make the call yourself.
I don't see games being all that easier these days. Maybe there is more handholding but really back in the old days you ran through a level and fought a boss and moved on.
Now with games giving bigger narratives and pathways to take and replay value up the butt the trade off more than makes up for it.
I don't know maybe I'm way to opinionated but I'm just as excited about games today as I was 15 - 20 years ago.

The same can definitely be said of today's gaming concerning going through the motions. Why do you think many people call this time  the casual gaming era?  Casual gaming is supposed to have VERY low
difficulty to get as many people initially involved as possible. Personally don't like it but it's an absolute brilliant marketing move. I saw everyone and their grandma (literally) get up and take part in Nintendo WII Sports lol. Look at the two games that have utterly dominated gaming year, CoD: MW3 and Angry Birds. Angry Birds is so
ridiculously easy and if going through the motions had a poster boy, AB would be it. If anyone is looking for a long, though-out campaign in CoD, they will be sorely dissapointed. A lot of rpgs this generation had a completion time for first playthrough of 20-40 hours. I remember tons of 90s rpgs had insane playthrough completion times...50,60,70 hours. As for the last point I don't need nostalgia to figure out that:

Half Life > Call of Duty
Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy VI > Final Fantasy XIII, FInal Fantasy XIII-2
Planescape Torment > Dragon Age II
Secret of Monkey Island > pc adventure games released today (if we are even lucky to get any)

Modifié par chrisuuuu, 18 décembre 2011 - 03:28 .