122 réponses à ce sujet

[Gabey5]

she can be loved and hated at the same time

Modifié par Gabey5, 26 juin 2011 - 09:44 .

[rwscissors702]

That made me want to give her a big hug. Merrill is the best part of DA2.

[Foolsfolly]

rwscissors702 wrote...

That made me want to give her a big hug. Merrill is the best part of DA2.

She's the only companion I want to return in DA3.

...unless they Anders her.

...rather unless they poorly Anders her like they did Anders.

Modifié par Foolsfolly, 26 juin 2011 - 10:40 .

[TEWR]

If they make Merrill evil in DA3, I will rage harder than a Rage Demon using the Pokemon moves Rage, Fury Swipes, and Thrash.


@Foolsfolly: What about Varric?

[Foolsfolly]

Eh, I think I've had my fill of Varric.

Nothing against the guy but it's not like he had a story of his own in DA2. I just don't think there's anything interesting left to say about the character.

But there's something to say about a loyal companion who sides with your regardless and who doesn't preach, insult, steal, or betray you.

[rwscissors702]

I don't even want to think about them doing an Anders to Merrill.
/shudder

[Foolsfolly]

Anders was popular....people wanted to see the guy back (especially interacting with Alistair)

...and then we got him back...

[TEWR]

I'm curious Foolsfolly, what about Anders in DA2 did you dislike? Aside from the continuity issues Bioware established when they could've easily avoided it by having Act 1 take place 2 years after landing and not one year.

[Foolsfolly]

He's a terrorist with no plans for the future. He's got a massive chip on his shoulders and murders innocents to prove a broken point:

Mages aren't dangerous and deserve to be treated as human beings, now watch me blow up the organization that feeds and shelters orphans, helps the poor, and has remained stubbornly neutral in this storyline so far...

It's just...I don't like it. They took a carefree funny guy and turned him into a madman with ambitions but no follow-through. It's not even like it had the desired affect...unless Anders just wanted wanton slaughter through the streets.

[Skyplant]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

If they make Merrill evil in DA3, I will rage harder than a Rage Demon using the Pokemon moves Rage, Fury Swipes, and Thrash.


@Foolsfolly: What about Varric?

If she is back that's definitely what will happen though, she's too flirty with demons to not be possessed and destroy thedas.

[Foolsfolly]

Plus, as DA2 delights in showing us, all mages turn evil given enough time.

[rwscissors702]

Nooooooooooo!

[Esbatty]

Not all mages... Wynne is a wonderfully preachy Undead Abomination.

[LobselVith8]

rwscissors702 wrote...

That made me want to give her a big hug. Merrill is the best part of DA2.

I agree, Merrill is a great character.

[Annarl]

That is funny!! She's cute.

[River5]

Foolsfolly wrote...

He's a terrorist with no plans for the future. He's got a massive chip on his shoulders and murders innocents to prove a broken point:

Mages aren't dangerous and deserve to be treated as human beings, now watch me blow up the organization that feeds and shelters orphans, helps the poor, and has remained stubbornly neutral in this storyline so far...

It's just...I don't like it. They took a carefree funny guy and turned him into a madman with ambitions but no follow-through. It's not even like it had the desired affect...unless Anders just wanted wanton slaughter through the streets.

Or, he was just trying to make sure that Meredith would be able to declare the Right of Annulment on the Circle unhindered (by eliminating the Grand Cleric, and/or any of her subordinates that could have had the authority to stop her.  And plunging the city in a direct "state of emergency" situation that would allow the Knight-Commander to do so without having to wait for approval from the Divine)...  And, by doing so, force all mages in Kirkwall into a fight, flee, or die situation, giving birth to a rebellion.

As a result, all the Circles of Magi across Thedas broke free from the Chantry (perhaps out of fear of retribution, or simply because they finally realised that it could be done)...  With some Templars also deciding to ignore the Divine's authority in order to start hunting mages as they see fit.

By causing an open war between two of the Chantry's main factions (the Circle of Magi and the Templars...  Since all First Enchanters and Knight Commanders must answer directly to the Grand Clerics), Anders actions have brought the "Orlesian Chantry" (as opposed to the "Tevinter Chantry") on the brink of collapse!  Crippled it from the inside.

The Chantry is now loosing social and political power, they know it, and the Divine is thus sending Seekers in order to track down the only person (The Champion) that they believe could help them regain control over at least one of their factions (the Circles or the Templars, depending the side you chose to fight with), and save them from loosing everything!

Anders wasn't trying to prove a point, or to show that mages were nice people that could be trusted by this point.  What good would it do to say "Hey!  We're good people too!  We deserve kindness, consideration, and respect!" when he's tried that for nearly a decade without results (manifestos everywhere, anyone?); while those who would support mages are too afraid of what the Chantry and its Templars could do to them if they dared show their support?

If you could be publicly hanged, or mercilessly slaughtered in your own home for the crime of providing an apostate relative with food and shelter for the night, would you be keen to openly and peacefully manifest your support for mages in front of the Gallows?  Didn't think so...

Anders was looking to create a massive power shift in Thedas by overthrowing the Chantry.  And if an open war was the only way to achieve that, so be it.

When faced with an opressive, totalitarian system of government that won't allow change through democracy, negociation, or peaceful resistance, many will consider that violence is a better choice than acceptance.  Even though violence should always be used as a last resort.

Anders plan, no matter how terrible or horrifying, was very calculated, visionary, and strategic.  And so far, it seems to be working pretty well. 

Modifié par River5, 26 juin 2011 - 05:42 .

[River5]

Merrill is so sweet and oblivious that it's almost painful!  Lol!  :innocent:

I think that point is really making her the complete opposite of what you would expect a blood mage to be.  She's all about bunnies and rainbows...  And oh!  Look!  A pretty demon that wants to play!    Hi there mister pretty demon...

Modifié par River5, 26 juin 2011 - 05:43 .

[XX55XX]

I loved Merrill. She was the only comic relief I had in such a mediorce game. 

[Mike 9987]

Foolsfolly wrote...

rwscissors702 wrote...

That made me want to give her a big hug. Merrill is the best part of DA2.

She's the only companion I want to return in DA3.

...unless they Anders her.

...rather unless they poorly Anders her like they did Anders.

i think merill learned her lesson after the keeper died because of her. i doubt she will even consider working with a demon again. 

[sphinxess]

Mike 9987 wrote...

Foolsfolly wrote...

rwscissors702 wrote...

That made me want to give her a big hug. Merrill is the best part of DA2.

She's the only companion I want to return in DA3.

...unless they Anders her.

...rather unless they poorly Anders her like they did Anders.

i think merill learned her lesson after the keeper died because of her. i doubt she will even consider working with a demon again. 

Doubt there are any keepers that dumb among the other clans.

Modifié par sphinxess, 26 juin 2011 - 06:52 .

[MinotaurWarrior]

Foolsfolly wrote...

He's a terrorist with no plans for the future. He's got a massive chip on his shoulders and murders innocents to prove a broken point:

Mages aren't dangerous and deserve to be treated as human beings, now watch me blow up the organization that feeds and shelters orphans, helps the poor, and has remained stubbornly neutral in this storyline so far...

It's just...I don't like it. They took a carefree funny guy and turned him into a madman with ambitions but no follow-through. It's not even like it had the desired affect...unless Anders just wanted wanton slaughter through the streets.

I agree on the whole DA][ Anders =/= DA:A Anders bit, and that annoys me, but they did that with pretty much every character who came back. For example, DA:O Merill was a big stick in the mud who required Marethari's permission before she took a dump.

But I like both Merrill and Anders. The thing you need to understand about Anders is that he's not just raging against Meredith "kill anyone who harbors apostates, make Harrowed mages Tranquil", he's raging against the system that took him from his family, moved him from the Anderfells to Ferelden, made him live in a small tower for all his life, paraded around souless versions of his old friends (Owen used to be a person), and forced him to face down demons all alone in order to be protected from being made tranquil. Elethania feels that Meredith is going too far, and should return to the normal level of child kidnapping and mage lobotimizing. Anders strongly objects to that. He wants freedom for the mages, at any cost. He isn't willing to accept marginaly more humane imprisonment.

EDIT: Also, you're spot on about him lacking plans for himself further down the line. He explicitly states that he was trying to martyr himself at the end.

Modifié par MinotaurWarrior, 26 juin 2011 - 07:13 .

[Blansten]

That scene caused my Merrill (sisterly) love to skyrocket.

[DreamerM]

River5 wrote...
(snip) And, by doing so, force all mages in Kirkwall into a fight, flee, or die situation, giving birth to a rebellion. (snip)

Or, ya know, just lead to a genocide against all the mages in the city that is promptly covered up by the Chantry's propaganda meisters. Which Anders won't live to see.

Brilliant plan, dude. Foolproof, minus the "proof" part.

Why doesn't Meredith even try and arrest him? She'll try executing the Champion (for HELPING HER) but Anders, the apostate/abomination dude who blew her friend Elthina sky-high is someone else's problem.

And yes, Anders returning in DA2 is a classic "Be Careful What you Wish For" moment. I just imagine Trollfaces all through Bioware when they decided on that little plot twist...

[Maria Caliban]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I'm curious Foolsfolly, what about Anders in DA2 did you dislike?

I'm not Foolsfolly, but my answer would be 'damn near everything.' If only I could murder knife him twice.