637 réponses à ce sujet

[Koji-san]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

It's a distraction to him, and you've agreed to help get it out of the way so he can focus on being a big, guddamm hero, just like you did for every other squadmate who wants to tie their own loose-ends. Why do you expect poor Zaeed to put his distraction aside?

Garrus could, for instance. And this whole thing is about saving lives to begin with.

Garrus?

Garrus went on a one-Turing war path for revenge rather than putting it off to beat the Collectors and save people.

*edit* ToP Zaeed


I guess the difference would be that one would expect Zaeed to be a blood-thirsty bastard, but sweet widdle Garrus would never think of such a thing..
I always thought it was kind of off-character of Garrus..

Modifié par Koji-san, 11 novembre 2011 - 05:20 .

[Skirata129]

bump for zaeed

[Hela]

Have been trying to avoid ME forums to build up this wonderful pre-christmas feeling (edit - before ME3, I mean. Normally, avoiding internet forums does nothing to my  sense of holidays), only to cave in and find me some spoilers, I find this thread.
Good to see Mr Massani still refusing to die on the forums.

From what I´ve read it´s unlikely for Zaeed to be be a permanent squadmember (what, with Vega around? Two designed-to-be-badass-gents obviously wouldn´t fit in the same ship for too long. Ah, I weep for ye, dlc-characters *cue the harmonica*). Still, hope he gets decent closure. FIX JESSIE! Ahem.

He is a lovely bunch of pixels and I cheer for him.

Modifié par Hela, 15 novembre 2011 - 06:40 .

[Labrev]

I read the leaks on Zaeed.


I was wrong about him. =,[

[outmane]

MisterJB wrote...

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

So I ask you, and try not to answer this question with the convenience of meta-knowledge, are the lives of a few refinery workers too big a price to pay, to ensure the optimal preformance of one of the mere 12 soldiers in my army, on a mission to save the entire human race and quite possibly the galaxy?

I say otherwise. I think that not punishing Zaeed for his stunt on the refinery is what might jeopardize the mission. It gives him more authority that he should have, it encourages him to start making those kinds of decisions without consulting Shepard first thus, compromising the discipline of the group.

Im with M.JB on that one.  (for my paragon Sheps mostly and some of my military style renegades)

In those stories Zaeed always seemed to me as a cautionary tale of '' if you want the job done properly dont hire someone jsut cause they have a big gun. the key is discipline ''. 

I have a hard time choosing the paragon option at the end of Zaeeds mission. Theres no way im handing my gun to that dude just to see if he might or might not fire at me. And the way he tells Shep that this is his mission usually make my renegade Sheps want to punch him right there. So I often end up with unloyal Zaeed (dead for a couple of playthroughs)

that said hes a pretty awsome character. as a player I wouldnt liek him any other way. He jsut rubs many of my Sheps the wrong way.

[Seboist]

Zaeed should have left the squad or the player should have been forced to kill him for choosing the Paragon path in his loyalty mission. It's completely nonsensical how Zaeed turns into a whimpering pup after Shepard ruins 20 years of his life and how he actually has the the nerve to trust him not to shoot him in the back for it.

Modifié par Seboist, 15 novembre 2011 - 09:52 .

[outmane]

Seboist wrote...

Zaeed should have left the squad or the player should have been forced to kill him for choosing the Paragon path in his loyalty mission. It's completely nonsensical how Zaeed turns into a whimpering pup after Shepard ruins 20 years of his life and how he actually has the the nerve to trust him not to shoot him in the back for it.

agreed

[foxtrotcharlie]

Yeah, I agree with Seboist completely. For some reason, and I think this is a fault in various series', I think Paragon decisions are looked upon as more preferable then those of Renegade, (which I have heard through the grapevine might have some credence in Mass Effect 3, but I hope not, or else my renegade characters are in big trouble.)

Now I trust Bioware to pull through in the final layout of Mass Effect 3 and make the paragon players sacrifice for their choices as well, but I sincerely hope that the Renegade path provides the player with a unique ending for the series. Perhaps a great example where this is poorly utilized is Fable 3. I shall always remember the ridiculousness of one of the choices:

"Turn this orphanage into a school or a brothel. The choice is yoooouuursss......."

Really? This is the depth of moral decision making that had been promised by Lionhead? But I digress, to go back to the original point, and to Zaeed.  There should have been, or for the final game, should be heavy consequences for letting Zaeed's nemesis go, as well as instant ramifications on a personal level with Zaeed himself.

For most of the other companions, this does not seem to come into play as much as Zaeed, however by means of effecting both the personal and professional relationship with Shepard as Zaeed's mission is so deeply ingrained within his psyche, so much so that he is nearly driven to madnes. Perhaps then it was simply a writing error on Bioware's part for Shepard to cost Zaeed his ultimate revenge on the man who ruined his life, and expect to walk freely away, unscathed.

Truthfully, if that would have happened, I would have been teary-eyed. Not quite crying, but you know, Top Gun-Goose scene crying .  In such a case, it would have been a necessesity, but I assure you, I would definately leave the player stunned and shaken in a good way. A way that the paragon player would not normally have to deal with. 

Modifié par foxtrotcharlie, 16 novembre 2011 - 04:58 .

[Xilizhra]

Zaeed should have left the squad or the player should have been forced to kill him for choosing the Paragon path in his loyalty mission. It's completely nonsensical how Zaeed turns into a whimpering pup after Shepard ruins 20 years of his life and how he actually has the the nerve to trust him not to shoot him in the back for it.

I always find it funny how much less respect you have for Zaeed than I.

For most of the other companions, this does not seem to come into play as much as Zaeed, however by means of effecting both the personal and professional relationship with Shepard as Zaeed's mission is so deeply ingrained within his head, so much so that he is nearly driven to madness for it. Perhaps then it was simply a writing error on Bioware's part for Shepard to cost Zaeed his ultimate revenge on the man who ruined his life, and expect to walk freely away, unscathed.

Zaeed is, in the end, a professional, and Paragon Shepard can help him remember that.

[foxtrotcharlie]

Xilizhra wrote...

Zaeed is, in the end, a professional, and Paragon Shepard can help him remember that.

True, you got me there, Zaeed is a professional. But the only thing that we cannot quite fathom is how Zaeed was willing to sacrifice all those people at the oil rig to gain his vengence, (thus showing the depths of his uncompromising rage}, yet upon realizing that Shepard had cost him possibly the only chance to kill Vido, he begrudingly agrees to still follow Shepard, albeit with some convincing of course. 

It is easy to agree that Zaeed understands that he must act in accordance to his contract and be professional. Granted.  However, I do not know if I am alone here, but upon first meeting Vido, when Zaeed rushes the gas valve to set the place on fire, then tells Shepard that the people are not worth saving, I was shocked at his behavior. Not because it was completely out of character, but because it truly showed the depth of his unwillingness to see reason when it came to Vido. The gruff, rough-around-the-edges mercenary whom I had come to know as a badass mercenary, who although had ran with gangs and fought in various battles, would not be capable of allowing hundreds of innocents to die for the sake of a personal vendetta, but I was proven wrong. 

But this then shows the complexity of Zaeed's character. Of course, I believe that with the Paragon choice Zaeed is shown the error of his ways, and through Shepard's persuasion learns that he cannot allow Vido dominate him and his life--good moral lesson.  Happily ever after.

But what we are aguing for is a more-realistic viewpoint of the situation, a sort of no-win situation for the paragon player.  The people are saved, but what of Zaeed? If I was in Shepard's position, upon seeing what he is capable of, I would be always expecting a bullet in the back.  That is just common sense. 

Modifié par foxtrotcharlie, 16 novembre 2011 - 05:18 .

[Xilizhra]

But this then shows the complexity of Zaeed's character. Of course, I believe that with the Paragon choice Zaeed is shown the error of his ways, and through Shepard's persuasion learns that he cannot allow Vido dominate him and his life--good moral lesson. Happily ever after.

I don't really know if it's this. He doesn't seem to let go of it, just put it aside for the time being. Probably he realizes that if he hadn't tried to burn down the refinery, he might have caught Vido anyway.

[foxtrotcharlie]

I'll have to get back to you tomarrow Xillizhra, lolz, I have work and school tomarrow. But I'll leave all you guys this, Sweet Dreams, Zaeed Thread!!


credit goes to hvsuhdcs at devianart.com

Modifié par foxtrotcharlie, 16 novembre 2011 - 05:54 .

[foxtrotcharlie]

Xilizhra wrote...

But this then shows the complexity of Zaeed's character. Of course, I believe that with the Paragon choice Zaeed is shown the error of his ways, and through Shepard's persuasion learns that he cannot allow Vido dominate him and his life--good moral lesson. Happily ever after.

I don't really know if it's this. He doesn't seem to let go of it, just put it aside for the time being. Probably he realizes that if he hadn't tried to burn down the refinery, he might have caught Vido anyway.

Hmm, good point, you may be right. This most likely is what the the writers thought would be Zaeed's reasoning for letting it go.  However, and this takes me back to my main point, through the evidence shown, from Zaeed's past, his actions, and his speech, we, as the audience, are inclined to see Zaeed in a certain way through his actions on Zorya. 

I am not trying to argue what Zaeed did, but rather, what senario would have made more sense at the conclusion, considering the circumstances.  Perhaps this brings up the much-debated topic of Charm/Intimidate choices, and how (more often than not) they always solve Shepard's problems.  I believe that  perhaps, for a more realistic and perhaps even shocking effect, there should be circumstances where Shepard cannot talk people out of a decision, which is sometimes the case in the real world. 

Modifié par foxtrotcharlie, 16 novembre 2011 - 08:07 .

[Skirata129]

Really, that choice should have been between keeping Zaeed or saving the factory workers. talking him into giving up his grudge that fast and easily is ridiculous. I really didn't have a problem with his arguments anyway, as killing vido would save more lives in the long run and his stunt with the gas valves gave us a fighting chance. (in realistic terms, fighting with as little cover as you had against enemies with superior numbers and the high ground is about suicide.)

[Yezdigerd]

Parashep doesn't talk him out of his grudge, he talks him into obeying orders and observing basic human decency.
As for "killing Vido saves more lives" it's just wishful thinking, nothing indicates there is any any lack of enterprising blue suns.
Besides what is the difference between Zaeed and Vido? both are scumbags that kills people for money, murders civilians as casually as they blow their noses. The little sociopath Zaeed is even boasting of the best ways to torture Krogans.
Frankly from his behaviour on Zoraya he is the last person any sane people would want covering their back.

[Skirata129]

...I would?

[Frostmourne86]

Does anyone see any parallels between Zaeed and Samara? Both have a mission that involves putting down someone that is not good by any stretch of the imagination, and yet both characters (Zaeed and Samara) are not lily white themselves - the decision to help Zaeed is Renegade and the one to kill Morinth is Paragon? Why?

[phantomdragoness]

Frostmourne86 wrote...

Does anyone see any parallels between Zaeed and Samara? Both have a mission that involves putting down someone that is not good by any stretch of the imagination, and yet both characters (Zaeed and Samara) are not lily white themselves - the decision to help Zaeed is Renegade and the one to kill Morinth is Paragon? Why?

I think killing Morinth is a Paragon action because you don't stab Samara in the back. Helping Zaeed is Renegade because you're sacrificing Kentucky Fried People innocents to achieve a goal.

Yezdigerd wrote...

Parashep doesn't talk him out of his grudge, he talks him into obeying orders and observing basic human decency.
As
for "killing Vido saves more lives" it's just wishful thinking, nothing
indicates there is any any lack of enterprising blue suns.
Besides
what is the difference between Zaeed and Vido? both are scumbags that
kills people for money, murders civilians as casually as they blow their
noses. The little sociopath Zaeed is even boasting of the best ways to
torture Krogans.
Frankly from his behaviour on Zoraya he is the last person any sane people would want covering their back.

Skirata129 wrote...

...I would?

Ditto. *shrugs* Also, I doubt Zaeed is a sociopath; they lack a concience, and while Zaeed doesn't show his much, he does have a shimmer of one. You can kinda tell when he talks about that girl who fought her way through a bunch of Batarian slavers; also during Jack's recruitment mission, he says something along the lines of:

"They'll slaughter her! We have to get to her."

Zaeed's hardly the nicest guy around, sure, but a sociopath is someone like...oh, I don't know...TIM.

Modifié par phantomdragoness, 17 novembre 2011 - 01:26 .

[Xilizhra]

Skirata129 wrote...

Really, that choice should have been between keeping Zaeed or saving the factory workers. talking him into giving up his grudge that fast and easily is ridiculous. I really didn't have a problem with his arguments anyway, as killing vido would save more lives in the long run and his stunt with the gas valves gave us a fighting chance. (in realistic terms, fighting with as little cover as you had against enemies with superior numbers and the high ground is about suicide.)

Kill Vido and that batarian guy just steps in to take his place, and we have better armor than they do. And if this wasn't a cutscene, I could have Pulled over a few of the Blue Suns and easily killed them on the ground to begin with.

[outmane]

Xilizhra wrote...

For most of the other companions, this does not seem to come into play as much as Zaeed, however by means of effecting both the personal and professional relationship with Shepard as Zaeed's mission is so deeply ingrained within his head, so much so that he is nearly driven to madness for it. Perhaps then it was simply a writing error on Bioware's part for Shepard to cost Zaeed his ultimate revenge on the man who ruined his life, and expect to walk freely away, unscathed.

Zaeed is, in the end, a professional, and Paragon Shepard can help him remember that.

Im all good with that... up until i give Zaeed my gun and give him a shot at shooting me. Its great that it worked, dont get me wrong. Makes an awsome scene and all. But I dont have many Sheps who would take such a risk. 

[Skirata129]

Xilizhra wrote...

Skirata129 wrote...

Really, that choice should have been between keeping Zaeed or saving the factory workers. talking him into giving up his grudge that fast and easily is ridiculous. I really didn't have a problem with his arguments anyway, as killing vido would save more lives in the long run and his stunt with the gas valves gave us a fighting chance. (in realistic terms, fighting with as little cover as you had against enemies with superior numbers and the high ground is about suicide.)

Kill Vido and that batarian guy just steps in to take his place, and we have better armor than they do. And if this wasn't a cutscene, I could have Pulled over a few of the Blue Suns and easily killed them on the ground to begin with.

well, yeah, outside of cutscenes, shep is the god of war. I tend to view cutscenes as a trip back to reality though, where getting shot will have much more effect on your health than just breathing heavily.

[Koji-san]

It's kind of interesting but I think people's perceptions of Zaeed's actions at Zorya and the merc in general depend on when they do his LM. Personally, I did his LM right away and so there was no prior behavior to judge him on (outside of shooting a Batarian in the leg, which my Shep liked). His actions on Zorya were the first impression of him in combat, and talking him out of it at the end was a beginning of a new partnership and the glimmers of trust. Throughout the rest of the game he's a badass fighter and awesome squaddie who really has some insightful things to say other LM's, so it seems like his character is loosening up and integrating into the team while coming to trust the Commander.
Now, I imagine if you did Zorya later in the game after coming to trust him at your back in some pretty nasty fire-fights, his actions on Zorya can seem like a complete about-face and I personally would feel betrayed. this makes sense to me.
Long story short, do Zorya right away if you want to fully appreciate his character development and the arc of his story.

[outmane]

Koji-san wrote...

It's kind of interesting but I think people's perceptions of Zaeed's actions at Zorya and the merc in general depend on when they do his LM. Personally, I did his LM right away and so there was no prior behavior to judge him on (outside of shooting a Batarian in the leg, which my Shep liked). His actions on Zorya were the first impression of him in combat, and talking him out of it at the end was a beginning of a new partnership and the glimmers of trust. Throughout the rest of the game he's a badass fighter and awesome squaddie who really has some insightful things to say other LM's, so it seems like his character is loosening up and integrating into the team while coming to trust the Commander.
Now, I imagine if you did Zorya later in the game after coming to trust him at your back in some pretty nasty fire-fights, his actions on Zorya can seem like a complete about-face and I personally would feel betrayed. this makes sense to me.
Long story short, do Zorya right away if you want to fully appreciate his character development and the arc of his story.

When I do his LM also has an impact on many of my Shep's relation with Zaeed. Specially for some of my middle ground paragades/renegons. Is killing those workers to gain Zaeeds trust necessary? It all depends on how many other squaddies you have, what you know of the collectors and incoming Reapers, your status with the Council/Alliance/TIM...

[foxtrotcharlie]

Koji-san wrote...

Now, I imagine if you did Zorya later in the game after coming to trust him at your back in some pretty nasty fire-fights, his actions on Zorya can seem like a complete about-face and I personally would feel betrayed. this makes sense to me.
Long story short, do Zorya right away if you want to fully appreciate his character development and the arc of his story.

This is actually a really interesting point! This is actually a great idea!! Truthfully, I never did loyalty missions until after I recruited everyone, (except Legion, because I like saving all of the crew on the Collector Ship).  But I'm starting a new game for ME2, which is my last import Shepard, so I'm going to do Zaeed's loyalty mission early to see how it feels.  I'll let you know how it turns out! 

I'm sooo excited that Zaeed will be in ME3!! I wonder what kind of part he will play?  Oh, and I have to ask all of you guys, as my friend and I were arguing about this the other day, "which Zaeed do you prefer?"

Early Concept Art Zaeed


Or
Final Concept Art Zaeed
I think Zaeed should grow out a beard like in the first picture for ME3. 

Modifié par foxtrotcharlie, 21 novembre 2011 - 02:45 .

[Koji-san]

Hmm early concept art Zaeed is a touch more sexy. Younger looking with the beard.