182 réponses à ce sujet

[Bluko]

Eh Pre-Reqs never really bothered me a great deal, since I assume they are usually there to help guide the player in making a sensible character build.

That said I'm not against them being changed to a level basis as this allows more "freedom" with character builds, while also preventing folks from maxing out one power right away to become uber powerful.

[goofyomnivore]

My big complaint about pre-reqs were their consistency. Pull unlocks Shockwave for an Adept, but it is reverse for a Vanguard? Made no sense IMO. Glad to see it is gone in that form.

[Malanek]

TheMakoMaster wrote...

it was frustrating, but it also stopped some classes from being way overpowered. for example, a sentinel with maxed out tech armor and the energy drain bonus talent would be too much of a tank. forcing the player to put points into overload prevents this.

Perhaps you should rephrase that. The Sentinel could take both Tech Armour and Energy Drain without spending any points in overload. They wouldn't be able to spend points in Cyroblast or Hacking. Restricting those doesn't really change the power level of the class though.

[lazuli]

Bluko wrote...

Eh Pre-Reqs never really bothered me a great deal, since I assume they are usually there to help guide the player in making a sensible character build.

There is nothing sensible about Shockwave on higher difficulty levels.  I could see this argument working for lower difficulties though.

[BickDutt]

How the hell is waiting for a level any better than what we had

if anything, it's even MORE linear now because you'll always be waiting for x-amount of time every game. And you HAVE to spend points unless you want to be some sort of powerless shmuck until you get all your powers available.

They're railroading skills progressions just as much as before (if not even more) and making the game less fun for everyone that doesn't want to play another COD-unlocks clone game. Instead of M4 --> FAMAS --> AK it's just going to be Concussive Shot lvl1 --> Ammo lvl5 --> Grenade lvl10 in a linear, unbreakable progression. Point spending is just moot at this rate.

Unless powers are unlocked at very low level I don't see how this is an improvement over further hand-holding for kiddies "first RPG XDDD"

Modifié par BickDutt, 29 juin 2011 - 12:29 .

[Someone With Mass]

I think it's good, because then I can save points for powers that unlocks at a higher level without having to unlock powers that I'm never going to use.

[goofyomnivore]

Unless powers are unlocked at very low level I don't see how this is an improvement over further hand-holding for kiddies "first RPG XDDD"

See this.

Brenon Holmes wrote...

Poked around a bit, so apparently the pre-reqs in the form that you guys have seen at E3 aren't around anymore. They're level based unlocks now, but from what I understand it's fairly generous in that most of the abilities unlock over the first handful of levels or so. :happy:

[BickDutt]

strive wrote...

Unless powers are unlocked at very low level I don't see how this is an improvement over further hand-holding for kiddies "first RPG XDDD"

See this.

Brenon Holmes wrote...

Poked around a bit, so apparently the pre-reqs in the form that you guys have seen at E3 aren't around anymore. They're level based unlocks now, but from what I understand it's fairly generous in that most of the abilities unlock over the first handful of levels or so. :happy:

Fair enough.

We'll see at release how it plays out. Personally I won't be holding my breath though.

[TheCrakFox]

Logic iQ wrote...

Wait.
There is a Paragon/Renegade meter for Garrus?
I must know more!

It's only meant to show up on Shepard's screen, the GUI isn't finished yet.

Hate to burst your bubble... nah, I don't. I revel in the misery of others

[The Spamming Troll]

Someone With Mass wrote...

I think it's good, because then I can save points for powers that unlocks at a higher level without having to unlock powers that I'm never going to use.

lets pretend you, me, and a bunch of other people already have level 60 + level 30 imports when were starting ME3?

whats the good in waiting to REunlock singularity, for the third time.

[Virginian]

Brenon Holmes wrote...

Poked around a bit, so apparently the pre-reqs in the form that you guys have seen at E3 aren't around anymore. They're level based unlocks now, but from what I understand it's fairly generous in that most of the abilities unlock over the first handful of levels or so. :happy:

So it is sort of like DA2 where you have to be at a certain level to unlock an ability. DA 2 also had certain abilities you couldn't get unless you had other abilities as well ala ME2.

[Someone With Mass]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

I think it's good, because then I can save points for powers that unlocks at a higher level without having to unlock powers that I'm never going to use.

lets pretend you, me, and a bunch of other people already have level 60 + level 30 imports when were starting ME3?

whats the good in waiting to REunlock singularity, for the third time.

Since Singularity is a class exclusive power, I'd imagine that it's unlocked right from the start.

As for the other powers that are locked, I think I can manage until I reach the required level.

[Nerdage]

Brenon Holmes wrote...

Poked around a bit, so apparently the pre-reqs in the form that you guys have seen at E3 aren't around anymore. They're level based unlocks now, but from what I understand it's fairly generous in that most of the abilities unlock over the first handful of levels or so. :happy:

Just in case you're still hanging around could you explain the need to lock powers off in the first place please? I'm not being snide (and especially not in the ME forums, I know what that gets you around here..) but I just don't see the need to forcibly balance the player in a single player game. Seems like the player should be allowed to find a powerful build in a single player game, it's not hurting anyone else like it would in an MMO, and the reward for being good at building your character is that the game's easier. Doesn't seem any different to a player being good at getting headshots making the game easier, but you wouldn't have the game prevent those players getting headshots for the sake of balance. And if it's not a balance thing then what is it?

[Nerdage]

Logic iQ wrote...

TheCrakFox wrote...

Logic iQ wrote...

Wait.
There is a Paragon/Renegade meter for Garrus?
I must know more!

It's only meant to show up on Shepard's screen, the GUI isn't finished yet.

Hate to burst your bubble... nah, I don't. I revel in the misery of others

Dude. I'm sad now.

Tell me about it, I was hoping for something like KotOR 2. Oh well.

[Nerdage]

Logic iQ wrote...

nerdage wrote...

Tell me about it, I was hoping for something like KotOR 2. Oh well.

I've never played KotOR before.
Aw well. I guess I don't know what i missed.

It's kind of academic if that UI's just a placeholder but basically companions' alignments would change with the PC's, so if you play light side your companions would gain light side points too; play dark side and they'd gain dark side points.

This is really off topic though so I'll shut up now..

[Les_Carver]

nerdage wrote...
Just in case you're still hanging around could you explain the need to lock powers off in the first place please? I'm not being snide (and especially not in the ME forums, I know what that gets you around here..) but I just don't see the need to forcibly balance the player in a single player game. Seems like the player should be allowed to find a powerful build in a single player game, it's not hurting anyone else like it would in an MMO, and the reward for being good at building your character is that the game's easier. Doesn't seem any different to a player being good at getting headshots making the game easier, but you wouldn't have the game prevent those players getting headshots for the sake of balance. And if it's not a balance thing then what is it?

I guess it's just for the sake of keeping the enemies, at the initial part of the game (around 30, 40%), tough enough for you and your team so they don't get dispatched as easily with some combinations of skills. Good thing there won't be more prereq skills in order to unlock the good ones

[CannonO]

The new system barely makes a difference. In ME2, we had to wait for levels to have enough for the unlocks anyways, now it just makes you earn the levels, but it automatically unlocks it.

[Nerdage]

Les_Carver wrote...

nerdage wrote...
Just in case you're still hanging around could you explain the need to lock powers off in the first place please? I'm not being snide (and especially not in the ME forums, I know what that gets you around here..) but I just don't see the need to forcibly balance the player in a single player game. Seems like the player should be allowed to find a powerful build in a single player game, it's not hurting anyone else like it would in an MMO, and the reward for being good at building your character is that the game's easier. Doesn't seem any different to a player being good at getting headshots making the game easier, but you wouldn't have the game prevent those players getting headshots for the sake of balance. And if it's not a balance thing then what is it?

I guess it's just for the sake of keeping the enemies, at the initial part of the game (around 30, 40%), tough enough for you and your team so they don't get dispatched as easily with some combinations of skills. Good thing there won't be more prereq skills in order to unlock the good ones

It just feels like hamstringing the player so blatantly is a pretty clumsy way to impose difficulty. If a skill is so imbalanced in the early stages of the game then why not weaken the lower ranks for that skill instead of blocking it off all together until the game's 'ready' for the player to have it? A level requirement just seems so arbitrary to me with no in-game justification.

Not that I don't think it's a step up from the requirements in ME2, but I still don't get it.

Modifié par nerdage, 29 juin 2011 - 03:49 .

[TheMakoMaster]

Malanek999 wrote...

TheMakoMaster wrote...

it was frustrating, but it also stopped some classes from being way overpowered. for example, a sentinel with maxed out tech armor and the energy drain bonus talent would be too much of a tank. forcing the player to put points into overload prevents this.

Perhaps you should rephrase that. The Sentinel could take both Tech Armour and Energy Drain without spending any points in overload. They wouldn't be able to spend points in Cyroblast or Hacking. Restricting those doesn't really change the power level of the class though.

messed up the prerequisite order.  what Malanek999 said.  :innocent:

[Bluko]

lazuli wrote...

Bluko wrote...

Eh Pre-Reqs never really bothered me a great deal, since I assume they are usually there to help guide the player in making a sensible character build.

There is nothing sensible about Shockwave on higher difficulty levels.  I could see this argument working for lower difficulties though.

Isn't Shockwave an ability that has to be unlocked? (Pull on the other hand does have its uses even on Insanity.)

[Nashiktal]

Well the level restriction thing won't be bad at all if we still get to respec like in ME2. Use the low levels to play around with the powers, then respec when you see what you want to go for.

[Cancer Puppet]

As long as my level 30 Shep from ME2 gives me enough levels to have everything unlocked at the outset, I'll be happy.