57 réponses à ce sujet

[IndigoWolfe]

It seems that everywhere I go on these forums, I see the same sentiments repeated--

"I don't want new characters because we won't connect with them since they haven't been around for two games"

"I don't want new love interests because I only care about Tali/Garrus/Miranda"

"I don't want new love interests to be the ones who are bisexual because I want characters I already know and love"

"I don't want James Vega on the squad because he's a boring human"

-- over and over.

Now, I can empathize with people who are concerned that emphasis on new characters can diminish the importance or relevance of existing characters.

But this isn't what I'm refering to. What I'm addressing here is the seemingly inexplicable disparagement of the concept of new characters. People seem to think that because a character hasn't been featured in the entirety of the games up to this point, it means that we will neccessarily not care about them, which I think is a misinformed assumption to make.

If there's one thing Bioware has proven their ability to do, it is to make characters to which players can easily attach. Take Feron, for instance; he had an extremely small role in Lair Of The Shadow Broker, and he still garnered a small cult-following amongst Thane fangirls. Or really; take the entire Mass Effect 2 cast. Players who had previously sworn their undying loyalty to Mass Effect 1 characters and/or love interests then flocked in droves to the shiny new ME2 squadmates.

If the new characters in Mass Effect 3 have half the appeal that the new ME2 characters did, I garantee that we will care about them.

[King Zeel]

ME Universe has like 15 fully fleshed out characters, I cannot fathom why Bioware wants to make more. waste of time really.

Now, I get it for the bisexual option but any other reason. Naw

[IndigoWolfe]

King Zeel wrote...

ME Universe has like 15 fully fleshed out characters, I cannot fathom why Bioware wants to make more. waste of time really.

Now, I get it for the bisexual option but any other reason. Naw

Because they can? Because variety is the spice of life?

Modifié par IndigoWolfe, 26 juin 2011 - 09:09 .

[Knight of Dane]

I want King Zeel as a fully romanceable character in the coming open RPG game World of Mass Effect.

[Made Nightwing]

@King Zeel, maybe because it's a NEW game? You know? Maybe people want to not only see their old favourites again, but meet more of Bioware's always well written characters. I enjoyed ALL the new squadmates, even Jacob had his highlights (If you choose the right conversations, his romance isn't actually that bad). I'm looking forward to James Vega, and hopefully a new krogan squadmate.

[Repearized Miranda]

It's not just that. People are also looking at the quanity of characters. The amount between 1 & 2 may have not increased significally; however, most agree that 12 characters (10 main + 2 DLC) was too many. Not to mention that you had to interact with all of them at some point. (Recruiting + LM + SM) It just seemed like too much.

Out of 12 characters (just throwing it out there), only 25-33% are very well liked (Miranda, Garrus, Liara and Tali) You've even got threads here that "kill characters off deliberately due to not liking them. (Petty? Yes, but you only play with 25% of you entire crew anyway while the other 75% are on the Normandy or busy with specific tasks during the SM)

The other thing is besides physical appearance (Miranda), Nature (Garrus) Aura (Liara) Outlook (Jack - well, all of them really); it comes down to how each is written.

Many can't stand Jack because she's too OTT with her negative viewpoint
Some can't stand Liara because of her 100% positive outlook
Garrus appears to be the same guy he was in ME1
Miranda's written as "HBIC"
Other characters just seem to "be there" (ie: Jacob, Mordin, Grunt) doesn't mean they're bad characters - just that not much was written for them.

[King Zeel]

IndigoWolfe wrote...

King Zeel wrote...

ME Universe has like 15 fully fleshed out characters, I cannot fathom why Bioware wants to make more. waste of time really.

Now, I get it for the bisexual option but any other reason. Naw

Because they can? Because variety is the spice of life?

Unbelievable. because `they`can? is that the argument floating around these forums? I'm sorry, I thought the whole purpose of Me2's new cast of characters was so that me3 could use the old cast of cahracters.
 Now people are trying to tell me differently?

Sorry, 1, two new characters tops, no more is necessary. We wont be using them.


Let's keep things one hundread, this new character is so the ps3 players wont feel shafted. again Bioware selling out to appeal to the "casual" market.

[Dileos]

King Zeel wrote...

IndigoWolfe wrote...

King Zeel wrote...

ME Universe has like 15 fully fleshed out characters, I cannot fathom why Bioware wants to make more. waste of time really.

Now, I get it for the bisexual option but any other reason. Naw

Because they can? Because variety is the spice of life?

Unbelievable. because `they`can? is that the argument floating around these forums? I'm sorry, I thought the whole purpose of Me2's new cast of characters was so that me3 could use the old cast of cahracters.
 Now people are trying to tell me differently?

Sorry, 1, two new characters tops, no more is necessary. We wont be using them.


Let's keep things one hundread, this new character is so the ps3 players wont feel shafted. again Bioware selling out to appeal to the "casual" market.

Bro this company's been catering to casuals long before ME3.

[IndigoWolfe]

King Zeel wrote...

IndigoWolfe wrote...

King Zeel wrote...

ME Universe has like 15 fully fleshed out characters, I cannot fathom why Bioware wants to make more. waste of time really.

Now, I get it for the bisexual option but any other reason. Naw

Because they can? Because variety is the spice of life?

Unbelievable. because `they`can? is that the argument floating around these forums? I'm sorry, I thought the whole purpose of Me2's new cast of characters was so that me3 could use the old cast of cahracters.
 Now people are trying to tell me differently?

The purpose of the ME2 cast was to assemble a team to stop the Collectors.

Let me put it this way; if you have a rich, diverse universe from which to draw, would you honestly expect the people in charge of its creation and presentation to not use the oppertunity to add to it?

[wildannie]

IndigoWolfe wrote...

It seems that everywhere I go on these forums, I see the same sentiments repeated--

"I don't want new characters because we won't connect with them since they haven't been around for two games"

"I don't want new love interests because I only care about Tali/Garrus/Miranda"

"I don't want new love interests to be the ones who are bisexual because I want characters I already know and love"

"I don't want James Vega on the squad because he's a boring human"

-- over and over.

Now, I can empathize with people who are concerned that emphasis on new characters can diminish the importance or relevance of existing characters.

But this isn't what I'm refering to. What I'm addressing here is the seemingly inexplicable disparagement of the concept of new characters. People seem to think that because a character hasn't been featured in the entirety of the games up to this point, it means that we will neccessarily not care about them, which I think is a misinformed assumption to make.

If there's one thing Bioware has proven their ability to do, it is to make characters to which players can easily attach. Take Feron, for instance; he had an extremely small role in Lair Of The Shadow Broker, and he still garnered a small cult-following amongst Thane fangirls. Or really; take the entire Mass Effect 2 cast. Players who had previously sworn their undying loyalty to Mass Effect 1 characters and/or love interests then flocked in droves to the shiny new ME2 squadmates.

If the new characters in Mass Effect 3 have half the appeal that the new ME2 characters did, I garantee that we will care about them.

I'm pretty sure that the bolded out bit is the core reason for people not wanting new characters.

I have no doubt in biowares ability to make compelling characters and am not bothered if there are new characters so long as it's not at the expense of the further development and completion of important character story arcs from ME1 and 2.   However, I don't need new characters in ME3 and would not have been at all bothered if the whole squad consisted of the old guys.

[King Zeel]

IndigoWolfe wrote...

King Zeel wrote...

IndigoWolfe wrote...

King Zeel wrote...

ME Universe has like 15 fully fleshed out characters, I cannot fathom why Bioware wants to make more. waste of time really.

Now, I get it for the bisexual option but any other reason. Naw

Because they can? Because variety is the spice of life?

Unbelievable. because `they`can? is that the argument floating around these forums? I'm sorry, I thought the whole purpose of Me2's new cast of characters was so that me3 could use the old cast of cahracters.
 Now people are trying to tell me differently?

The purpose of the ME2 cast was to assemble a team to stop the Collectors.

Let me put it this way; if you have a rich, diverse universe from which to draw, would you honestly expect the people in charge of its creation and presentation to not use the oppertunity to add to it?

I rather they focuse the "rich, diverse, unique" universe on plot, gameplay and everything but new characters. WE HAVE ENOUGH. theres no point of having new characters, just so all the surviving characters have their little cameo time and the new players end their existence in the same game.


So new characters are pointless, time consuming, unnecessary and a waste of resources.

[IndigoWolfe]

King Zeel wrote...

So new characters are pointless, time consuming, unnecessary and a waste of resources.

Tell that to the Thane fangirls.

[King Zeel]

IndigoWolfe wrote...

King Zeel wrote...

So new characters are pointless, time consuming, unnecessary and a waste of resources.

Tell that to the Thane fangirls.

Don't get me started on the fangirls.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

King Zeel wrote...

IndigoWolfe wrote...

King Zeel wrote...

IndigoWolfe wrote...

King Zeel wrote...

ME Universe has like 15 fully fleshed out characters, I cannot fathom why Bioware wants to make more. waste of time really.

Now, I get it for the bisexual option but any other reason. Naw

Because they can? Because variety is the spice of life?

Unbelievable. because `they`can? is that the argument floating around these forums? I'm sorry, I thought the whole purpose of Me2's new cast of characters was so that me3 could use the old cast of cahracters.
 Now people are trying to tell me differently?

The purpose of the ME2 cast was to assemble a team to stop the Collectors.

Let me put it this way; if you have a rich, diverse universe from which to draw, would you honestly expect the people in charge of its creation and presentation to not use the oppertunity to add to it?

I rather they focuse the "rich, diverse, unique" universe on plot, gameplay and everything but new characters. WE HAVE ENOUGH. theres no point of having new characters, just so all the surviving characters have their little cameo time and the new players end their existence in the same game.


So new characters are pointless, time consuming, unnecessary and a waste of resources.

And more of Zeel's trollish behavior.
Ahh my day is complete!

[Made Nightwing]

DON'T MENTION FANGIRLS AROUND ZEEL, YOU WILL REGRET IT!

[Marah_Fayne]

Hey, everybody is entitled to their opinion, and they will play the game however they want (for instance, I've never used Tali, probably never will, I just don't like the character)

Now, if someone is saying Bioware SHOULDN'T do something, well then...maybe they need to be quiet while the adults talk, or get their own game company.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Made Nightwing wrote...

DON'T MENTION FANGIRLS AROUND ZEEL, YOU WILL REGRET IT!

Actually I rather enjoy it.

[Made Nightwing]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Made Nightwing wrote...

DON'T MENTION FANGIRLS AROUND ZEEL, YOU WILL REGRET IT!

Actually I rather enjoy it.

It IS rather novel, isn't it?

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Made Nightwing wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Made Nightwing wrote...

DON'T MENTION FANGIRLS AROUND ZEEL, YOU WILL REGRET IT!

Actually I rather enjoy it.

It IS rather novel, isn't it?

Nope.
Extreme One, Zulu, and Elite Midget did it better.

But he's so goddamned bad at it that I can't help but laugh.

[alperez]

Partly its because in creating squadspace for these new characters people rightly feel their using a space that could/should be used for an existing character. Their is also the if x is in why isn't y scenario wherby any new character is technically replacing someones particular favorite.

For me though its more this is supposed to be a trilogy, in single games new characters i have no problem with, in games featuring the same protagonist fighting different threats i again have no problem with introducing new characters.

But in a trilogy where you've already introduced so many characters to get to the final act only to once again introduce more new characters to me is redundant, we had enough finish the story with the best of them and leave the new ones for a new experience.

Then there is the story logic pov, why does a new character have a reason to be with Shepard when a character Shepard knows and trusts and has probably been to hell and back with not? I don't know who the hell this Vega guy is but seriously he has more of a reason to be a squadmember in my game than Garrus or Tali or any other character, really?

But the biggest kicker for me is the whole starting from scratch aspect of it, once again its a freaking trilogy, yes in movie trilogies new characters are introduced but not at the expense of the original ones. So you get for example Eowyn or Eomer in LOTR it doesn't eliminate the character progression of Aragorn or Arwen.

Mass effect had the potential to do something different because of the setup, something unique, allow character progression in a video game, see something different than you've seen before. So instead of the meet, get to know a little and then save the world rinse and repeat you usually get, you would only have that in the first act.

In the second the characters would already know each other so it allows them to grow until finally we reach the final act and the arc is complete, by instead putting new characters in every single time we're getting the rinse and repeat formula, which lets bioware completely off the hook in terms of character development.

Garrus barely grows as a character from me1 to me2 and a lot of others have the same problem, personally i think they should have concentrated more on that aspect rather than adding in more new characters to replace ones they didn't want to expand the effort on fully fleshing out.

For me a fully fleshed out over all parts of the trilogy character would be more meaningful and more interesting than what we've got or may get by continously introducing new characters, Han solo is not the same person in Jedi that he is in Star Wars and is imo a much better character because of it.

[RPGamer13]

I don't exactly have a problem with it, but if these new characters are going to be permanent party members, and they want fewer than ME2, then they run the risk of making it seem like they abandoned characters they've already established as party members.

Though it's too late for that as far as I'm concerned, but they could make it worse and I wouldn't want that.

[VirtualStranger]

I just love how Zeel thinks that Bioware has "sold out to the casual market", yet at the same time accuses them of "catering to the whims of the fanbase"

Guess what? Those two groups combined make up almost everyone who will play this game.

I guess the only person Bioware is allowed to listen to is him.

[Repearized Miranda]

Spot on with alperez's point. However, they may as well used only the characters from ME1, but then we wouldn't have gotten to like/not like the characters from ME2 (including returns).

I think the biggest problem is again, how the new characters are written. AAMOF, when we first popped in ME1, we were seeing/playing new characters. It didn't seem to be an issue from ME1-ME2 either as we got used to them as well. It'll happen again in ME3.

[PMC65]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Nope.

Extreme One, Zulu, and Elite Midget did it better.

But he's so goddamned bad at it that I can't help but laugh.

I haven't seen them in a while. Are they still around?

[alperez]

Repearized Miranda wrote...

Spot on with alperez's point. However, they may as well used only the characters from ME1, but then we wouldn't have gotten to like/not like the characters from ME2 (including returns).

I think the biggest problem is again, how the new characters are written. AAMOF, when we first popped in ME1, we were seeing/playing new characters. It didn't seem to be an issue from ME1-ME2 either as we got used to them as well. It'll happen again in ME3.

I agree adding characters in me2 (a lot of who i liked) added to the experience but i didn't mean to suggest that they were wrong to do so and should have just stuck with the me1 characters. More that by adding 10 characters in me2 plus the ones they already had in me1 they created a situation where most enough characters were already involved, adding in more after that is where i think things become redundant.

Bioware can create great characters (which is why a lot of people are attached to those from me1 and me2) and no doubt they may do it again, to me though this isn't the issue but more the relegating of characters to smaller appearances. It worked to an extent in me2, We lost 4 out of 6 and some of it made sense, what i don't think would work is if in me3 we lose most if not all of the me2 crew to make room for new characters (some yes i can live with all not so much).

Plus i think bioware have a bigger problem this time round, people accepted what happened with me2 because me3 was another opportunity for the characters from me1 to return, this won't be the case for me2 crewmembers, so if the vast majority or all of them have reduced roles then no matter how cool or interesting a new character might be i'm not sure people will accept it the same way, i know i for one won't.