146 réponses à ce sujet

[Thrombin]

There may bo other emanations besides light that the Reapers give off. Plus, if they're too close to our galaxy they could block the light from other galaxies. The further away they are the less chance of anyone noticing an obstruction.

[CroGamer002]

Thrombin wrote...

You don't have to go there to be spotted by telescopes or other astronomical measuring devices. I don't think it would even count as darkspace unless it were well beyond the rim.

Black ships in darkness can be visible by telescopes?

The point is, I don't think it makes sense to be sitting within months of the Galaxy and just sit there for two years. It makes far more sense that they are years away from the Galaxy (if the Citadel Relay doesn't work) and, therefore, have to take years to get here.

Did you payed attention what was said in that video?
Reapers need secrecy so that their plans to Reap galaxy every 50 000 years to be successful.
That's why they don't attack directly until end of ME2.

The fact that Arrival can happen before the SM is just more evidence to support this scenario as they wouldn't have bothered travelling to the Alpha relay if the idea was to send the human reaper to open the Citadel relay. It just tips their hand prematurely.

I already proved that Casey Hudson said ME3 starts 2 months Arrival and Jessie Houston said ME3 start 6-12 months after end of ME2.
Also Kenson was mentioned in January 2186 on CDN while ME3 News Report trailer says ME3 starts in 6th June.

It makes perfect sense that they got here as soon as they could and that the human reaper was for reasons as yet unknown and nothing to do with their invasion plans.

1st how does it makes sense to be years from galaxy instead of months?
2nd that would make ME2 main plot just a filler.

[CroGamer002]

Thrombin wrote...

There may bo other emanations besides light that the Reapers give off. Plus, if they're too close to our galaxy they could block the light from other galaxies. The further away they are the less chance of anyone noticing an obstruction.

They just shut those lights off when they're resting for 50 000 years.

Also we don't even know how far away are they from galaxy. Kenson belives destroying Alpha Relay would slow down Reapers for months or even years, but they show up in only 2 months.

Which means they can travel very extreme distances very fast.

There's nothing that proves your point that Reapers are too close and that with your theory are far enough.

[Juha81FIN]

Thanks for sharing this, was really nice work and sum up of events in ME1 and 2. I don´t want to speculate about plot twists .

[Zigeroy]

it was great and i have one question, do the reapers just wait out in dark space or do they just go galaxy to galaxy harvesting life in each one and just cicling around?

[Thrombin]

I'm not saying it isn't plausible for them to be closer I'm saying it isn't implausible for them to be further!

What makes me think they are two years away at the end of ME1 is that seems the most logical reason for why they didn't invade sooner than Arrival.

The theory that they were holding back waiting for their human reaper to be completed doesn't fit with the fact that arrival can be played before the SM. Thus I prefer my theory that they weren't waiting, they were travelling.

[CroGamer002]

Zigeroy wrote...

it was great and i have one question, do the reapers just wait out in dark space or do they just go galaxy to galaxy harvesting life in each one and just cicling around?

No, they only go to Milky Way.

Every other galaxy is too far.

[CroGamer002]

Thrombin wrote...

I'm not saying it isn't plausible for them to be closer I'm saying it isn't implausible for them to be further!

And when did I said it's not implausble to be further?
Just they don't need to be that far away.

What makes me think they are two years away at the end of ME1 is that seems the most logical reason for why they didn't invade sooner than Arrival.

Have you watch my entire video?

The theory that they were holding back waiting for their human reaper to be completed doesn't fit with the fact that arrival can be played before the SM. Thus I prefer my theory that they weren't waiting, they were travelling.

I already proved there's a canon timeline for that.

Only reason why you can play it before is poor game design choice, not writer choice.

Modifié par Mesina2, 28 juin 2011 - 09:40 .

[Wojtek the Soldier Bear]

I think the main reason you can play Arrival before the SM is the upgrades you can find. There's really no point in waiting until after the SM (from a gameplay standpoint) to collect the final upgrades. Personally, I wait until after the SM to do Arrival, because I am a stickler for canon, and it's pretty damn obvious that Arrival takes place after the SM.

Oh, and another point to consider; why bother creating a human-reaper requiring millions upon millions of human lives when the reapers were on their way to Earth to kill everyone anyway? Doesn't make any sense to build half a log cabin and burn the rest of your timber in a bonfire, does it?

And another point: the video that plays after the SM shows the reapers "waking up". How could they be mere hours away from batarian space in the Arrival (pre-SM), yet after you do the SM, they are just waking up thousands of LY outside the Milky Way? That timeline makes no sense.

[CroGamer002]

[quote]Arcian wrote...

Aside from the fact that FTL emissions are incredibly bright and visible on more than just a visual level, telescopes cannot see anything faster than the speed of light. If the Reapers were 22 light years away from a telescope, it would take their initial image 22 years to reach said telescope, in which time the Reapers would've already arrived many, many years ago and obliterated the telescope and its users.

The galactic species relies on long-range sensors to pick up ship movements on the FTL scale.[/quote]

I was talking about them sitting there for 50 000 years doing nothing.
When they go to FTL speed to go and hit galaxy hard way, there's no more point of hiding.

[quote]The Reapers do not NEED secrecy, they prefer it because it is more efficient. We all thought Sovereign was bull****ting about the "Our numbers will darken the sky of every world"-statement, but as the ME3 footage has shown us, he really weren't kidding.[/quote]


Seems very sunny to me.

And where did you get that they just prefer doing that?

[quote]They could omit the Citadel entirely from their plan of attack and still curbstomp the entire galaxy, over and over and over again. But why spend an unnecessary amount of time doing something that could be dealt with in a few centuries with a central control relay linked to dark space?[/quote]

Ilos.
Only more of cryo chambers on many planets and more chances that enough people for repopulation to survive.
That's like 50 000 years to prepare for Reaper attack.


[quote]True, but first of all, Never Trust a Trailer. Secondly, what a developer says one day may have changed the next. The ME3 dates aren't fixed, and even though what Casey and Jessie said might have been true at the time, it could have changed by now.[/quote]

But why change it?
They make a lot of sense and wouldn't hurt any plot in any way.


[quote]Because "months" in FTL range are only a few 1000's of light years, which isn't enough to reach "True" Intergalactic/Dark Space from a starting point of, say, the Alpha Relay. "Months" of FTL would only take you into the dark edge of the galactic rim, and even there, organics would be hard-pressed to look because of the scarcity of stellar bodies to discharge their drives into. To reach true Dark Space from the galactic rim, you would have to travel 2.5-4 years. No organics can go there - but the Reapers can.[/quote]

Kenson says Reaper will need months or years for Reapers to get to nearest Mass Relay, but they do it in 2 months.

Which means Reapers are much more faster then any ship ever made.

[quote]Secondly, many people already consider ME2's main plot as filler, despite the "Human Reaper was the 2nd Vanguard"-theory.[/quote]

And they would be wrong with this theory.

[quote]You need to realize that the point of ME2 was to stop the Collectors from abducting millions of humans (this alone is perfect justification for the game), and gain an insight into the motives and workings of the Reapers - plus exploring the ultimate fate of the Protheans.[/quote]

Not helping much in fight against Reapers.

Legion's and Tali's loyalty missions are way more helpful then main plot.

[quote]Here is what I think is more believable: there was no 2nd Plan A in ME2. Harbinger wasn't trying to create a new vanguard, he was trying to discern, through experiments, which race to hit and overwhelm first in order to establish a main base and start up a Reaper factory ASAP on the homeworld of said species. This led them to bunker up on Earth in ME3.[/quote]

Reapers are interested in humans, so what?
How does that negates my theory?

[quote]The "2nd Vanguard"-theory hinges on the fact that Harbinger already knew which race to create a Reaper from - but this would make the plague on omega completely pointless.[/quote]

How?

[quote]Everything the Collectors did was an experiment.[/quote]

And?

[quote]They weren't working with the heretic geth to create a new strike force against the Citadel, either - the heretic geth planned to infect the True Geth with the virus all on their own initiative because they were losing the war against the Alliance and were on the verge of being exterminated.[/quote]



Most of their forces are deep in Terminus System's and some in former Quarian space.
How can Alliance go there and make them extinct?

Also we saw they still have large force, but not enough to go to war with Alliance and Council.


Also Legion finds about about the virus on Derelict Reaper.
Who else would point Geth Heretics to that Reaper but Reapers themselves?


[quote]The Conduit fell under Citadel control shortly after the Battle of the Citadel, which completely eliminated every chance the Reapers had to ever take the Citadel by surprise again.[/quote]



Ilos is still in Terminus System's.
Council can't send anyone there unless they are some private group.

And that group would be annihilated by Geth, Collectors and Human Reaper attack before they could send any message.

[quote]And adding insult to injury of an already wingclipped plan, Saren was killed with no organic agent of sufficient influence and worth to succeed him (besides Shepard, who at this point was irrelevant to their Plan A).[/quote]

They tried to take Shepard's body between ending of Mass Effect 1 and ending of Arrival.

[quote]All things considered, it would be more inefficient for the Reapers to sit around doing nothing in dark space waiting for the New Vanguard and Indoctrinated-Shepard to repeat Sovereign and Saren's mistake than immediately going for the galactic edge shortly after Sovereigns' death, and planning their course of attack while en route.[/quote]

How?
Shepard is dead and nobody is trying to stop them.

[Thrombin]

Ok, I wish I could address each point directly but I can't access the Bioware forums on my work PC and I'm stuck using quick reply on my iPhone

I get that you 'proved' that the canon timeline for Arrival was after the SM but the fact you can optionally play Arrival before the SM is a major pothole using your theory. Why develop a theory which allows for a major pothole when there's a perfectly good one that doesn't?

Also, if the human reaper was being built to spearhead an assault on the Citadel why is it better to wait 2 years to build it rather than just take 2 months to send an existing reaper (or fleet of reapers) to attack the Citadel instead? I don't see what they gain other than an increased chance to tip people off with all the abductions.

I have no problem with ME2 being filler but since we don't know what the human reaper was for it doesn't make it filler just because it's independent of the invasion plans.

Also that shot of the Reapers after the SM just looked like they were on the move I didn't see any indication that they were waking up.

[hwf]

Could it be that there is no "Plan B" for the Reapers?

The Collector Base being the only assembly platform for new Reapers and destroying that essentially bought Humanity some time in not being turned into slurry immediately starting ME3.

It was suggested by the shore party during the visit to the dormant Collector Ship that it has enough storage capacity for a population the size of Earth.
Now because of the trivial nature in which the Collector Ship was scared off the minor colony Horizon; it really doesn't seem likely that a ship that retreats over the activation of some automated defenses would have the punch to go and collect humans from Earth without assistance.

However, the above weakness in the Collectors does make sense if you can lock down the entire galaxy and curb stomp every planet one at a time as Reapers and then have the Collectors collect the Humans and process them. In fact the Reapers seem to have to do the collecting the tedious way right now.

The above makes ME2 all about characterizing the Reapers, describing the stakes and making ME3's Galactic War more personal and involved.

Modifié par hwf, 28 juin 2011 - 11:36 .

[CroGamer002]

[quote]Arcian wrote...

They sit there for 50,000 years waiting for species to evolve to a worthy level.[/quote]

I know that.
You should have seen previous posts from guy I was replaying too.

[quote]Very droll. He wasn't being literal. The statement was a metaphor for having a crapload of ships. Darkening the sky of a single world would require trillions of vessels. What he meant was "We have enough ships to f*ck your **** and there is nothing you can do about it." which many people interpreted as bullsh!t because of his arrogant tone.[/quote]

I know that.
Just a lot of users think he was literal.

Was wrong with you.

[quote]Where did you get that they don't? They're AI's. Every single AI in the ME-verse so far has been concerning themselves with doing everything as efficiently as possible.[/quote]

Key word "just".


[quote]We've been over this before, the current generation of galactic species doesn't have that technology. Secondly, Ilos was an isolated incident because the Reapers literally did not know the facility on Ilos existed, and because the cryo chambers were built before the invasion.[/quote]

A) They can take that tech from Ilos
It will take years for Reapers to Reap just Earth, so go and find some planet to build cryo chambers
C) Evidence of Reaper existance can be more clear then Prothean visions and better hidden and much more


[quote]According to you. BioWare should know whether they make sense or hurt the plot in any way since they're the ones writing it.[/quote]

Well how does it hurt the plot?

Besides they the one that said all those things, so they think it's good idea too.


[quote]That's if what Casey Hudson said was still true, which it might not.[/quote]

And I really don't see why would they change it.

[quote]Making your theory completely pointless. Why bother waiting in dark space for the new Vanguard to be painstakingly built over years and years, allowing the species of the galaxy to recuperate and restock their fleets, when they can just fly into the galaxy over a couple of months with their 10000+ strong fleet and finish the cycle the hard way while the species are vulnerable and unprepared?[/quote]

Already said why.

Ilos and evidences about Reaper existence.


[quote]But it's YOUR theory we're talking about. Are you sure you read my post correctly?[/quote]

I never said this what Bioware officially done.

With this theory, ME2 main plot is not a filler and it shouldn't be.
Otherwise Bioware did poor job with making a trilogy if 2 act is mostly pointless.


[quote]And? Who said it was supposed to help? Isn't saving millions of innocent lives enough of a reason to stop the Collectors?[/quote]

Yes, but point of Mass Effect trilogy is to stop Reapers.
If Reapers were coming anyway then we could have just dump entire main plot of ME2 and it wouldn't make much difference in trilogy as a whole.


[quote]Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.[/quote]

You mean stoping Reapers to get one of the most advance species as allies and gaining some trust with keeping order to species with largest fleet in galaxy would be lesser then just stoping Collectors to abduct humans, just becasue they're bad, in stoping the Reapers?


[quote]It provides an alternative reason for the ME2 plot besides the "Human Reaper was a new Vanguard"-theory, which I find terribly unbelievable and silly.[/quote]

True, but I guess we'll have to agree to disagree with your 2nd point.


[quote]Why would they unleash a plague on Omega to discern which species is the strongest if they already knew which species IS the strongest? Makes absolutely zero sense.[/quote]

No, plague was specifically made not to kill humans and vorcha( since someone needs to send that plague) and kill everyone else.

Also in human colonies with high population, there's also high alien population.
Seekers Swarms only detect humans, so they can't have some alien speaking about Collecotrs attacking that colony( Veetor).

[quote]Considering the Collectors would need to harvest people from Earth (as implied by the amount of colonies already abducted and the comments of party members on the Collector vessel) to have enough material to actually complete the Human Reaper, I'd say that punches a hole in your theory.[/quote]

I doubt Collectors would ever attack Earth alone.

That line on Collector ship is just plain silly.

[quote]Plus, no sane individual - artificial, cybernetic or organic - would use experimental prototypes on the field.[/quote]

And that's, only if Human Reaper is new thing.
As far as we know, Human Reaper could have looked like same as every other Reaper.

Mac Walters did said it's core of the Reaper.


[quote]They "WERE" on the verge of being exterminated. They've fled back to their own space specifically for this reason. They're at the mercy of their own kind, the True Geth, if they stay in geth space, and at the mercy of the Citadel species if they leave geth space. Either way, they need a drastic plan to change their failing odds of survival.[/quote]

When did True Geth attacked Heretics?

Legion never said they were even in direct conflict.


And even if they were, Reapers still could have guide them to that virus. Which they most certainly did since they had no reason to find out where's was that mass accelerator weapon fired at and left crater on some planet.


[quote]Which is why they are trying to indoctrinate the True Geth so that they can continue that war and ensure their own survival.[/quote]

And we never saw any conflict with Geth with anyone but Alliance, Council, Cerberus and Shepard.

Not even True Geth versus Geth Heretics was seen. Only True Geth we know that fought with them is Le


[quote]Legion was the only geth to ever visit the Derelict Reaper. The virus wasn't created by Sovereign, but by the heretics themselves. They stored it on a data core provided by Sovereign, which is the reason why Legion needs to study the dead Reaper core, in order to understand the code and the storage structure of the core the virus is stored in.[/quote]

How does that information get's from Sovereign to dead Reaper?


[quote]Dude, the Council even says they visited Ilos and examined the remains of Vigil. "They" being their agents, of course. Even though it is not stated outright, why would these agents just leave the Conduit around for the geth to use again when they know it leads straight to the Citadel?[/quote]

Conduit is a Mass Relay.

It can always be turned on( Relay 314) and destroying them is believed impossible until Arrival and it kinda blows up everything.

[quote]Seeing as Citadel agents already visited Ilos before the events of ME2, the geth fleets under Sovereign's command must have left orbit and headed to the Citadel with Sovereign as soon as Saren went through the Conduit. There are no collectors there. At the time their agents visited Ilos, the Human Reaper was still just a wee bitty baby on the Collector Base.[/quote]

Rebuild Geth army, Human Reapers and Collectors( maybe) can always take it over again.


[quote]So? Even though they can't use him to let the Human Reaper in, they can use him to help disable the Alliance or route their attention as the Reapers attack. Everything doesn't have to have a singular, exclusive purpose.[/quote]

Saren was still used despite he loss his Spectre status.


[quote]The success of the human reaper-vanguard is no certainty, even with Shepard dead. Even so, there aren't enough civilians in all of the terminus colonies and the Traverse to complete the Human Reaper - one party member even implies on the Collector vessel that the Collectors will need to harvest humans from Earth to have enough to complete the reaper.[/quote]

That line is just plain silly.

From what I saw, I don't think they'll have enough to take entire population of my country.
Also from EDI we get that it needs millions to complete a Reaper.

I'm sure there's more then enough to make a Human Reaper without Earth.


[quote]How do you suppose the Collectors would harvest the populations of Earth without the help of the main Reaper fleet in order to create their Human Reaper and use it to repeat Sovereign's amazing blunders?[/quote]

Where did you get that Collectors will attack Earth?
It was never said.

Not even that silly line says they'll attack Earth.

[CroGamer002]

Thrombin wrote...

I get that you 'proved' that the canon timeline for Arrival was after the SM but the fact you can optionally play Arrival before the SM is a major pothole using your theory. Why develop a theory which allows for a major pothole when there's a perfectly good one that doesn't?

So developers saying Arrival happens after Suicide Mission is plothole since you can play it before?

OK then doing any recruitment missions after Suicide Mission is plot hole as well.
Especially since they act like it happen before SM.


That's just game design choice.

And this theory came to me after Casey Hudson and Jessie Houston comments.
Before that I also though main plot of ME2 is a filler.

This actually makes it connected to trilogy.

Also, if the human reaper was being built to spearhead an assault on the Citadel why is it better to wait 2 years to build it rather than just take 2 months to send an existing reaper (or fleet of reapers) to attack the Citadel instead? I don't see what they gain other than an increased chance to tip people off with all the abductions.

I think Batarians will notice giant ship going pass their colony and using Alpha Relay.

I have no problem with ME2 being filler but since we don't know what the human reaper was for it doesn't make it filler just because it's independent of the invasion plans.

Me neither since it's a good story, but why make it a filler while you can do this and not rewrite anything?

Also that shot of the Reapers after the SM just looked like they were on the move I didn't see any indication that they were waking up.

I didn't said they were waking up from that scene.

[CroGamer002]

hwf wrote...

Could it be that there is no "Plan B" for the Reapers?

The Collector Base being the only assembly platform for new Reapers and destroying that essentially bought Humanity some time in not being turned into slurry immediately starting ME3.

Not very helpful since it's just 1 extra Reaper

It was suggested by the shore party during the visit to the dormant Collector Ship that it has enough storage capacity for a population the size of Earth

Didn't you see that ship yourself?
That thing doesn't look to even fill any major city on Earth.

That line is outright silly.

Now because of the trivial nature in which the Collector Ship was scared off the minor colony Horizon; it really doesn't seem likely that a ship that retreats over the activation of some automated defenses would have the punch to go and collect humans from Earth without assistance.

Where did you get they'll attack Earth?

Not even that silly line says "Collectors will attack Earth".

However, the above weakness in the Collectors does make sense if you can lock down the entire galaxy and curb stomp every planet one at a time as Reapers and then have the Collectors collect the Humans and process them. In fact the Reapers seem to have to do the collecting the tedious way right now.

Eh, I really don't see what's pint of that.

The above makes ME2 all about characterizing the Reapers, describing the stakes and making ME3's Galactic War more personal and involved.

Going through all that trouble just to make 1 Reaper sooner?

[hwf]

Mesina2: That thing doesn't look to even fill any major city on Earth. [...] Where did you get they'll attack Earth? [...] Going through all that trouble just to make 1 Reaper sooner?

We don't know anything about the construction process of a Reaper; how much Humans need to be turned into nanite-slurry, how long it takes. Or when it finishes.
As for the Reaper vessel and target Earth, I'm just going on what the game's narrating by means of the shore party - if you want to call that silly that's fine since I found those reveals to be a bit lacking in ME2 to be honest.
Personally I'd say it's "pretty big" but it won't fit billions. But that doesn't really matter - they can ferry to and from an Earth that has been completely and utterly locked down by a Reaper armada just fine.

Right now in ME3 the Reapers can land and demolish any and all defenses trivially; reducing any resistance effectively to just simple ground forces.
But then they'd have a problem since these ground forces are mobile. And they shoot back. Or run away.
Shooting and killing the very things you want to make a new Reaper out of is counterproductive and takes a lot of time; the Collectors however were collecting Humans while they were still alive, by paralyzing them, stowing them on board their vessel and bringing them to the Reaper production facility to be processed.

Mesina2: Going through all that trouble just to make 1 Reaper sooner?

Going through all that trouble just to make a Reaper at all.

What Shepard did in Mass Effect 2 wasn't just destroying that Reaper production facility, which'll take considerable time to rebuild or repair. He also took out all the Collectors - which would be used to completely lock down any ground forces and civilians with that swarm technology they have.

The above is my argumentation that in ME2 Shepard has bought Humanity some time during the Galactic War in that they're not being trivially collected and processed into a Reaper.

[CroGamer002]

hwf wrote...

We don't know anything about the construction process of a Reaper; how much Humans need to be turned into nanite-slurry, how long it takes. Or when it finishes.

From EDI( an A.I. who scans everything when you're on mission to help you in mission) says it would probably take millions.

As for the Reaper vessel and target Earth, I'm just going on what the game's narrating by means of the shore party - if you want to call that silly that's fine since I found those reveals to be a bit lacking in ME2 to be honest.
Personally I'd say it's "pretty big" but it won't fit billions. But that doesn't really matter - they can ferry to and from an Earth that has been completely and utterly locked down by a Reaper armada just fine.

I found a plothole then.



Game narrate me that Reapers will darken to sky of every world.
This looks very sunny to me.

Right now in ME3 the Reapers can land and demolish any and all defenses trivially; reducing any resistance effectively to just simple ground forces.
But then they'd have a problem since these ground forces are mobile. And they shoot back. Or run away.
Shooting and killing the very things you want to make a new Reaper out of is counterproductive and takes a lot of time; the Collectors however were collecting Humans while they were still alive, by paralyzing them, stowing them on board their vessel and bringing them to the Reaper production facility to be processed.

How can 1 ships stand a chance against entire Alliance navy and hit human homeworld?
Also I'll add Council forces too since it's their duty to protect each other.

Going through all that trouble just to make a Reaper at all.

What Shepard did in Mass Effect 2 wasn't just destroying that Reaper production facility, which'll take considerable time to rebuild or repair. He also took out all the Collectors - which would be used to completely lock down any ground forces and civilians with that swarm technology they have.

So we slow down producing Reapers?

How does that stop Reapers to stop Reaping galaxy in this cycle?

The above is my argumentation that in ME2 Shepard has bought Humanity some time during the Galactic War in that they're not being trivially collected and processed into a Reaper.

Point of Mass Effect trilogy is to save galactic civilizations from Reapers, not just humanity.

Stopping them making 1 extra Reaper and delay them for next cycle by making them build new base for producing Reapers is not helpful to stop them this cycle.

If anything you only gave them a finger, if you blew up the base.

[hwf]

My question was about the existance of a plan B. The plan A and C that you mention in your video I definately agree with - it's just the "second Sovereign" theory I'm questioning.
I'm thinking they just started assembling the first new Reaper - without any special purpose/reason other then to build a new type of Reaper from a new and freshly harvested organic component.

Mesina2: Game narrate me that Reapers will darken to sky of every world. This looks very sunny to me.

Precisely, they have completely dominated Earth's defenses both aerospace naval and surface to aerspace, it would've been safe now for the Collector Ship to land in and fully paralyze a major city and just collect the people there to be processed. Shepard however, removed the Collectors from the board.

Mesina2: How can 1 ships stand a chance against entire Alliance navy and hit human homeworld?

Exactly, that Collector vessel couldn't do anything except cull some outlying undefended colonies. The instant any defenses were present and active, like on Horizon, it had to retreat.
That's why I'm arguing that the Collectors couldn't really gather enough humans to make a new Reaper at all. Not until the Reaper Armada entered the galaxy and removed those defenses you mention.

Mesina2: So we slow down producing Reapers? How does that stop Reapers to stop Reaping galaxy in this cycle?

Yes, I'm saying Shepard bought some time in slowing down Reaper production. He removed the Collectors and destroyed or sabotaged the Collector facility that was the production facility of new Reapers.
And it doesn't stop Reapers at all from reaping the galaxy, it just delays them.
If anything, it stops the Reapers from using the Collectors for turning Humans into slurry the instant Earth has been conquered.

Mesina2: Point of Mass Effect trilogy is to save galactic civilizations from Reapers, not just humanity. Stopping them making 1 extra Reaper and delay them for next cycle by
making them build new base for producing Reapers is not helpful to stop
them this cycle.

The Illusive Man probably wouldn't put it like that.

The Reapers have targeted Humans for processing into a new Reaper, we get to know that during ME2. They're already in the process of processing hundreds of thousands of people from Horizon and other minor colonies.
My theory is that if the Reapers locked down Earth with the Collectors and their base still in existance they'd be cleaning out Earth in just a couple of weeks if not months; since they could collect us faster and immediately process us into slurry.

Essentially I'm saying it doesn't need to be as complex as the "Plan B" theory; a new Reaper to open the Citadel Relay.
The Reapers just started assembly of new Reapers a bit ahead of their arrival, with no other purpose to it.

[Parion]

I think I'll throw a couple of notes into this discussion.

The Conduit:- ...is not an option. Even discounting putting guards on Ilos, the conduit is linked to the monument. We can assume that since that it's such a vunerable spot they would put, say, a turret covering it, or a mass generator to eject it from the citadel or some such.
Either that or they're dumber than yeast.

The Geth Virus:- It's pretty clearly stated that the virus was written by the heretics. It was simply stored on a reaper core. I think that the reason for the virus wasn't us much self preservation as it was simple conversion; The heretics have already shown that they don't beleive in universal self determination, so it fits thematically that they would attempt to indoctrinate those members of thier own species who follow the wrong path from thier pov.



Imo the embryo wasn't a plan to open the citadel, as the citadel is pretty much a write-off, but that doesn't mean that ME2 was "filler".

Partially it was setting & character development, but mostly the point was to make the Reapers seem more powerful.

Consider, in ME1 we see a single reaper who, although powerful, gets fragged in short order.
If we had moved strait onto the invasion, which we will presumably defeat, then it lessens them. We ask ourselves what the fuss was all about.
It's like Orcs. Originally they were this horde of monsters driven by demon magic and murder... and they were defeated again and again, until eventually it was impossible to take them seriously as anything more than cannon fodder.
So we needed a buffer between thier introduction and thier arrival, and they couldn't be directly involved to prevent our success making them seem stupid or weak.
The collectors are ideal. They're powerful enough that it took the galaxy's best and brightest to stop them, thier defeat doesn't impact the reapers in any real way beyond minor anoyance, and the simple fact that they were slaves means we automatically ramp up our opinion of the reapers to put them above the collector's level.



Good video, just wrong

[Rahmiel]

I have to agree with hwf and arcian. From all the dialogue in the game, I have to conclude that the reaper would not be completed unless the collectors were going to target Earth. And given that the collector vessel left horizon once the guardian turrets were activated, I do not see the collectors dominating Earth.

The point of the plague, I do not exactly know. It could simply have been to stir up mistrust about humans, or it could have been to establish the vorcha as new "accomplices". It could have also been used to "weed out" the other races and leave only humans, to be harvested as well as isolated. All of these assumptions are not mutually exclusive either.

The video was a pretty good recap, but got a lot of things wrong about the motivations or "plan A and plan B". I also feel that the point of ME2 was not to "stop the reapers" and neither was the first game. It's the point of the whole series.

The events in ME delayed the reapers. The events in ME2 seem more about finding out why human colonies are being hit. We find out that reapers are involved, and in fact, they control the collectors who are responsible. We also find out why they've been abducting human colonies, which is to construct a human reaper. Why a human reaper? That was not discussed in the game and is open to interpretation and theory. Why were they making a reaper? Again, who knows, that was not covered.

So is this all just filler? I say no. Just because the events of ME2 do not stop the reapers from reaching our galaxy does not mean it's not a setback for the reapers. Without the collectors around and their technology, it can be a lot more difficult for the reapers.

Hold on you say, the reapers made the collectors so they have their tech. What I'm saying is that without the collectors around to wielding the tech, it's essentially lost. Sure the reapers have the knowledge to make new collectors and the collector tech, however they cannot raise an army that quickly. EDI talks about the extensive reworking of the prothean genome. So now the collectors lose their ability to "disable" vast areas (colonies) at once for "collection". Sure, the reapers can destroy entire civilizations and planets through bombardment, but why? Why bother?

It would seem, from the events in the second game, that the reapers "reproduce" by collecting species and processing them. Destroying that processing plant (the collector base and the collectors themselves) would put a severe hamper in the reaper's plans and thus delay them even more. How does that help to stop the reapers? It's guerrilla tactics.

"Guerrilla warfare is a form of irregular warfare and refers to conflicts in which a small group of combatants including, but not limited to, armed civilians (or "irregulars") use military tactics, such as ambushes, sabotage, raids, the element of surprise, and extraordinary mobility to harass a larger and less-mobile traditional army, or strike a vulnerable target, and withdraw almost immediately."

Also, stop using that screen grab of the sun, saying that it looks pretty sunny. First of all, you're being too literal, as someone has already pointed out. Secondly, you're assuming that all the reapers have arrived in that screen capture. Which you cannot prove. All you can prove is that 3 reapers have landed since that's all you see in that screen capture.