49 réponses à ce sujet

[VirtualAlex]

 We all know Adranaline Rush is pretty overpowered. Especially with the mattock O_o. We all know how a soldier is played, you run in, AR, kill everything, duck until CD is ready, repeat.

What about a soldier with no AR? Soldier is the only class that gets concussive blast, maybe treat that as the class ability? Soldier also has access to all ammo types and all guns. There is enough unique stuff there to keep A-Rush out of it. How about playing the soldier as a tactical weapons specialist with a cuncussion granade? maybe throw in flash bang or inferno granade to complete the picture?

[MELTOR13]

It would be doable. But it would probably be like playing the Vanguard without Charge, or an Adept without Singularity. It would seem pretty bland to me.

[VirtualAlex]

I don't agree. Adepts and Vanguards only have a single unique skill. Soldier has two unique skills. Concussive blast being the second. So it would not actually be that bland because you will be too busy looking for good times to C-Blast people.

[Bogsnot1]

As someone who has been playing all sorts of shooters since the original Doom, I dont use AR anyway. I do just fine without it.

[VirtualAlex]

Do you make good use of Concussive Blast?

[Bogsnot1]

Yeah, normally on airborne enemies, whether it was a flying collector, or someone who had been pulled, or was mid slam.

[VirtualAlex]

Area Reave followed by Area Blast sounds like it would be a fun move.

[nicethugbert]

My first play through was with a Soldier in Normal difficulty. I didn't use AR except to try it out a few times and not be impressed. I just waited for heads to pop out of cover. But, for my first play through on Insanity, I use it all the time and largely because of Mattock.

Modifié par nicethugbert, 29 juin 2011 - 02:51 .

[termokanden]

Bogsnot1 wrote...

As someone who has been playing all sorts of shooters since the original Doom, I dont use AR anyway. I do just fine without it.

It's not really a question of not needing it because your aim is good enough. It also increases damage per shot, increasing your ammo efficiency and in game time (the time enemies live in, and the time they use to shoot you), your DPS will be higher.

[RGFrog]

AR is completely unnecessary. The only difference in game will be the time it takes to complete an area/map.

You still have ammo powers with AOE and concussive shot for OMG staggers or pushes. Keep to the theme and take flashbang (if you picked up Kasumi) and you'll never lack for anything.

Modifié par RGFrog, 27 juin 2011 - 07:00 .

[VirtualAlex]

I am really not concerned about needing or not needing it. I am saying AR makes the game too easy. But luckily the soldier has 2 unique skills, AR just totally outshines C-Blast. I am just thinking a C-Blast based soldier could be a pretty fun run.

[termokanden]

Someone has to be the bad guy and point out that you're replacing an insanely good ability with one of the worst. Concussive Blast? You'd be WAY better off with Stasis, Slam, or Neural Shock. All CC, all so much better than Concussive Blast it's ridiculous. In fact they mop the floor with Concussive Blast, throw it out of the window, set it on fire and run it over with a truck, that's how much better they are. I may have overdone it this time.

You could also consider a vanguard or infiltrator with assault rifles if you want something similar with other abilities than AR.

On second thought, if you want a FUN power, I would suggest Flashbang Grenade. It's more skill-based than most powers, so to me it's more satisfying to use. You'll throw it back in your face some of the time in the beginning, and that doesn't actually make it any less fun to use.

Modifié par termokanden, 27 juin 2011 - 07:49 .

[VirtualAlex]

Yeah I love the granades, something this game doesn't have. I used to roll with the inferno grenade on my soldier back when there was no Kasumi.

I really like the look of C-Blast. I know it sucks. But that doesn't matter the soldier can roll without any skills. But if you still want to burn CD, then why not burn it on his other "class Skill?" Might make for an interesting variant.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

As a challenge or a theme build, sure, No-ARush Soldier works. It won't be *good* though... ME2 doesn't offer that much of a game experience outside of its player/squad powers, so everytime you omit something you lose out a bit on gameplay experience, imo. Like some here, I also didn't use ARush when I started playing, but now with a few PTs in the bag I think it should still be quite doable on Insanity. You'll probably have a hard time clearing fights quickly or gracefully, and you might run tight on ammo sometimes, but it should be quite doable.

[jamesp81]

RGFrog wrote...

AR is completely unnecessary. The only difference in game will be the time it takes to complete an area/map.

You still have ammo powers with AOE and concussive shot for OMG staggers or pushes. Keep to the theme and take flashbang (if you picked up Kasumi) and you'll never lack for anything.

Or Inferno Grenade.  Zaeed's IG + Shepard's IG is epic ass whooping against husks.

[F00lishG]

To prevent "blandness" ARush would have to be replaced with another power of same worth, right? I propose Tech Armor. And switching Incendiary Ammo with Inferno Grenade.

[jamesp81]

termokanden wrote...

Someone has to be the bad guy and point out that you're replacing an insanely good ability with one of the worst. Concussive Blast? You'd be WAY better off with Stasis, Slam, or Neural Shock. All CC, all so much better than Concussive Blast it's ridiculous. In fact they mop the floor with Concussive Blast, throw it out of the window, set it on fire and run it over with a truck, that's how much better they are. I may have overdone it this time.

You could also consider a vanguard or infiltrator with assault rifles if you want something similar with other abilities than AR.

On second thought, if you want a FUN power, I would suggest Flashbang Grenade. It's more skill-based than most powers, so to me it's more satisfying to use. You'll throw it back in your face some of the time in the beginning, and that doesn't actually make it any less fun to use.

Neural Shock is far inferior to Concussive blast, IMO.  NS does no damage to defenses and doesn't penetrate defenses.

Concussive blast, however, is pretty strong against barriers, not as strong as Warp against barriers, but in return for less anti-barrier, it stuns unprotected enemies.

The only measure by which Concussive blast sucks is compared to Adrenaline Rush.  CB doesn't get used much because AR is that awesome.

Now, if you take a bonus power, yes, there are some bonus powers that will work better than CB in certain situations.  Reave is better anti-barrier and leaves CC'd enemies upright for an easier kill shot.  Flashbang lacks the barrier stripping of CB, but has a wider radius of effect for CC.  Stasis will work through defenses and will kill anything that dies from being ragdolled.  Inferno grenade has a wider area of effect than CB.

I often use CB on my Revenant Soldiers.  With my Revenant Soldier, I will often take Barrier as a before battle shield boost.  This leaves CB my best power for barrier stripping, and I don't actually use AR that much with the Revenant (but I do with the Sniper or when closing in for a shotgun kill).  On my Widow Soldiers, I don't bother with CB, since the Widow Soldier is pretty specialized to proving long range support fire.  In that case, defense stripping and CC power responsibility falls to team mates.

[termokanden]

Concussive Shot has a high multiplier against barriers but does low damage to begin with. It doesn't really get close to the real anti-barrier powers (one of which you can actually have as a soldier). But the real problem is that it's a combat power. Combat powers can't be upgraded.

When you're comparing Concussive Shot to Neural Shock, you also have to realize that Neural Shock has half the cooldown, less than that with research upgrades. It also lasts very long. It's pure CC and it's much better at that than CS. But simply shooting people is much better for damage than CS. So I'm not really sure where CS is supposed to fit in.

Anyway I don't think we'll ever agree on this.

Modifié par termokanden, 27 juin 2011 - 10:08 .

[mcsupersport]

Personally, except for a niche/challenge play, I don't see the point of playing a class and not using the class power. You might as well not play the class if you aren't going to use it's main power. I can understand not making some other the other classes not totally focused on their power but soldier is about shooting. It has at most two active non-class powers ie Concussive shot and bonus power. You can't in any way imagine the class will be as fun or as effective without ARush. If you don't want to use ARush, you might as well go play infiltrator and take ARifles as a bonus.

[Aynien]

mcsupersport wrote...
 You can't in any way imagine the class will be as fun or as effective without ARush. If you don't want to use ARush, you might as well go play infiltrator and take ARifles as a bonus.

Well, it may not be if you are using CS, but Leeroi showed that it can be fun and effective, but he's using Reave instead. As others pointed out, it's doable, but I don't think it's worth to blow your CD's on CS, as it doesn't benefits of any upgrades(for being a combat power), while there's far better power to use instead.(Barrier and Drain Energy also are good bonus powers to take).

[mcsupersport]

^ The build in that video ignored CS and maxed Reave and ARush I think. While the ARush wasn't the entire focus of the play it was used as a combat tactic, while the OP is suggesting a NO ARush build, which is what I was saying why bother playing soldier then.

ARush can be used as both a damage intensifier and a tactical movement power. Of course I usually use it as a tactical move to in your face blasting but that is another story. To not use it and try to make do with CS and Reave would work, no question as others state just about anything can get through the game, but why bother except to make a niche/challenge build.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

F00lishG wrote...

To prevent "blandness" ARush would have to be replaced with another power of same worth, right? I propose Tech Armor. And switching Incendiary Ammo with Inferno Grenade.

lololol this would be epic in an epic-trainwreck kind of way! I'd like to see how ME3 responds to an import of this build.

[Bogsnot1]

termokanden wrote...

Bogsnot1 wrote...

As someone who has been playing all sorts of shooters since the original Doom, I dont use AR anyway. I do just fine without it.

It's not really a question of not needing it because your aim is good enough. It also increases damage per shot, increasing your ammo efficiency and in game time (the time enemies live in, and the time they use to shoot you), your DPS will be higher.

Wow. Thank you ever so much for instructing me on how AR works, and how to play my game for my enjoyment. Despite the fact the game has been out for quite some time, AR is the one and only ability I did not read up on to nuderstand how it worked. Something was obviously missnig from my soldier playthruoghs, and that was the (make me) Awesome Button. <_<

[VirtualAlex]

Hmmm seems a bit uncalled for.