49 réponses à ce sujet

[Locutus_of_BORG]

VirtualAlex wrote...

Hmmm seems a bit uncalled for.

+1 Yea, maybe just a bit.

[termokanden]

Bogsnot1 wrote...

Wow. Thank you ever so much for instructing me on how AR works, and how to play my game for my enjoyment. Despite the fact the game has been out for quite some time, AR is the one and only ability I did not read up on to nuderstand how it worked. Something was obviously missnig from my soldier playthruoghs, and that was the (make me) Awesome Button. <_<

You're welcome.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

 awkward silence

[kstarler]

While I don't see the appeal of a build like this, I'd give kudos if you managed to pull it off without experiencing a bout of mind numbing boredom. If you have the capacity to make them, I'd love to see a video or two.

EDIT: By the way, if I were doing something like this, I'd probably go with a defense stripping ability (Area Reave/Energy Drain) for opening enemies up to concussive shots more quickly. Or, opting for allies that can strip defenses quickly, I'd go with Neural Shock or Slam (quick cool down, since Concussive Shot is 6 seconds).

Suggested Build:

3 Adrenaline Rush (unlocks CS)
10 Concussive Blast
3 Disruptor Ammo
10 Inferno Ammo
3 Cryo Ammo (for husks)
10 Commando
10 Neural Shockwave

Modifié par kstarler, 29 juin 2011 - 01:42 .

[F00lishG]

What I don't understand is, why do people say playing a class without it's power is bland? As class Powers go only Singularity came from the first game. Were the other 5 classes bland in ME1? If they weren't, how would they be bland if you don't use them in ME2?

[kstarler]

Actually, the combat in ME1 is widely accepted to have been more bland than the combat in ME2. Personally, I find the combat in ME1 to be bland after level 20 or so (when I've amassed enough money to buy a Spectre VII weapon), but I still enjoy it for the story.

EDIT: By the way, the protection system in ME2 effectively changes how all powers work as compared to ME1, so comparing the two is fairly difficult in regards to the higher difficulty levels. On a side note, I also find ME2 combat to be bland below Hardcore, but that's personal preference.

ADDITIONAL EDIT: Also, there is a lot more diversity among the classes in ME2 than there was in ME1, and comparing an ME1 Soldier to an ME2 Soldier is basically trying to compare an apple to an orange. There are similarities (they both grow on trees and are fruit), but there are stark differences as well.

In ME1, a Vanguard with Singularity for a bonus power was essentially an Adept with medium armor. An Infiltrator with Hacking was basically an Engineer with medium armor. While there are draws to play each class in ME1, they don't varry in play style or abilities nearly as much as they do in ME2, mainly thanks to the signature powers added in ME2.

Modifié par kstarler, 29 juin 2011 - 02:27 .

[Tony Gunslinger]

This is definately doable.
Thisisme8 has a tutorial on general combat that uses a vanilla Solider without ARush in order to show that tactics and the right use of powers and squadmates can get through anything, no matter what class. That said, this is definitely not an optimum build, and it would require really good knowledge of teamwork and other powers to work to your advantage. Ammo powers will be pretty key, and your role would be a crowd controller, using guns to freeze/burn/disrupt enemies after your teammates take down their defenses. A good sign that you're doing well is if your squadmates are killing almost as much as you are, if not more. If you can finish the game playing this way, you'll know why Adepts and Engineers are awesome

[ryoldschool]

What is with this thread? I play soldier when I want to kick some butt on insanity, just like the good players. You must really be bored to try to amuse yourself to do a non-ar playthrough. Just for the 2.4x weapon damage alone it changes the game. What next - only use pistols? Hopefully nobody new to me2 is reading this thread.

[Aquilas]

Adrenaline Rush is completely appropriate to the Soldier class. Think about the role a Soldier plays on the squad, the skills and powers a soldier would train for and use in a biotic/shields/armored combat environment, and then ask yourself if AR falls outside the ME dynamic. Remember, the ME games are action RPGs--I emphasize the RPG part.

AR represents the heightened reflexes and marksmanship a Soldier earns through training and application. If you're going to nerf AR, then you need to nerf the Infiltrator's time dilation as well.

"Realistically," the Soldier should not only have AR available, but should be able to wear heavy armor (missing in ME2), should be able to use every ammo power--without "bonus training"-- except Warp Ammo, and should be able to wield a class-specific weapon.

The soldier should wield a weapon unique to the class due the soldier's role. Both my sons are former Marines: there are members of each unit that are qualified with special weapons. In ME, the units are the team and the squad. And yes, in the real Marine Corps some ammunition is weapon-specific. But again, in the ME universe, if the soldier can carry every weapon in ME3, then the Soldier should be able to use every ammo power except Warp Ammo without "bonus training"--given the Soldier's role. Of course, ME2 ammo powers are really freeze and fire and shock spells, and not endemic to the actual ammunition itself, hence class ammo power specialization.

Now, was Immunity overpowered in ME? You betcha. The devs were right to remove it. When a human being can take a couple of shots from a Thresher Maw or a heavy turret and survive, we've gone well beyond the science established in the ME universe and into the realm of absolute fantasy.

I play Soldiers, Infiltrators, Vanguards, and Adepts on every dificulty level--even Adepts on Insanity. Each class has its strengths and weaknesses; team character builds, squad balance, and effective tactical commands arre essential to mission completion.

The class power balance in ME2 is appropriate. Much of the discussion of classes being "overpowered" is based on player skill--or lack thereof--and play-style. Several writers here have offered the "solution" to AR being "overpowered": if you don't like it, don't use it. That applies to every class' powers in ME2 and beyond.

Modifié par Aquilas, 29 juin 2011 - 06:04 .

[termokanden]

Aquilas wrote...

The class power balance in ME2 is appropriate. Much of the discussion of classes being "overpowered" is based on player skill--or lack thereof--and play-style. Several writers here have offered the "solution" to AR being "overpowered": if you don't like it, don't use it. That applies to every class' powers in ME2 and beyond.

We'll have to disagree on that I guess. But that's for another thread.

I am thinking about playing around with my soldier a bit more tonight to find out which powers are most fun outside out AR. I currently have one on insanity quite early in the game so far.

Modifié par termokanden, 29 juin 2011 - 05:23 .

[VirtualAlex]

I already beat the game with a soldier. I already abused AR and know how busted it is. Sure it's fun to just AR and then headshot 4 enemies with the mattock before going back to normal speed... it's cool.

The problem with AR is: you have to use it. It's the best skill hands down in almost all situations. A soldier only does 2 things. use an ammo power once. Use AR every 10 seconds every battle all game.

Been there done that.

If I take AR out of the equation, now I am forced to use other skills like C-Blast. I think it might be fun to use C-Blast a ton even though it is much worse than AR. I am not concerned about difficulty, and I highly doubt it will be boring.

it is widely accepted that shockwave is a trash skills compared to almost each other power. Yet there are plenty of videos demonstrating a fun and powerful use of Shockwave. This is the same thing.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

^Come to think of it, lvl4 Improved Flashbang Grenade is ideal for a No-ARush Soldier. Forget CS - it's such a dumb power. Flashbang is fun b/c it gives a more realistic feel while being a genuinely good power.

[nocbl2]

I did this for my first 2 ME 2 playthroughs. I used Revvy and Area Reave, mainly.

[kstarler]

VirtualAlex wrote...

I already beat the game with a soldier. I already abused AR and know how busted it is. Sure it's fun to just AR and then headshot 4 enemies with the mattock before going back to normal speed... it's cool.

I will agree with you that ARush + Mattock = Way too easy and boring. However, you mention headshotting 4 enemies with a single ARush (unless I'm misreading that). What difficulty are you playing on?

My suggestion would be to try a higher difficulty (if you're not already on Insanity) and use the Avenger/Vindicator/Revenant instead of the Mattock. I think you might find the class more engaging and even find ARush more interesting with a more balanced weapon/difficulty. I find that a super aggressive Revenant style of play is very fun, as Sinosleep illustrates in his Rambo video, to be a lot more fun than the optimal Widow/Mattock/Heightened AR style.

[VirtualAlex]

I play on insanity always. I had my soldier before the mattock DLC and he used the Vindicator mostly, and then revenant. Once the Mattock DLC came out I loaded up an older save and replayed half the game with Mattock, which is the best gun ever. I guess I am looking for an interesting challenge.

[kstarler]

Have you tried an aggressive Revenant Soldier? It's a fairly challenging style to adapt to, and I find it to be pretty rewarding, since I get the up close, high risk kill without intentionally gimping myself.

Modifié par kstarler, 30 juin 2011 - 08:44 .

[bc525]

This thread got my attention because it's exactly the way I'm using a soldier class build for my current playthrough, and I was a bit surprised at some of the comments claiming the combat will be "bland" or "boring" without using the Adrenaline Rush class power.

I've been using Neural Shock (bonus power) against organics and Disruptor Ammo against shields and synthetics. Also, Concussive Shot figures into my combat as well. The combat hasn't been boring in any way, in fact, so far I've had to be very strategic with this build. Ammo can quickly get scarce if I'm not careful, and headshots are vital. It's a challenge to be sure, and that's not boring to me.

Anyways, the Sentinel class is still my ME2 preference but I'm having alot of fun with this build for a soldier. So to the OP, I say give it a try.

Modifié par bc525, 30 juin 2011 - 09:17 .

[kstarler]

bc525 wrote...

This thread got my attention because it's exactly the way I'm using a soldier class build for my current playthrough, and I was a bit surprised at some of the comments claiming the combat will be "bland" or "boring" without using the Adrenaline Rush class power.

It's all personal preference and opinion, to be sure. I want everyone to play the game in the way that they enjoy. My own feeling is that I would rather play an Adept or Engineer for the style of play this would entail, and reserve the Soldier for the Rambo style of play. As always, I'm interested to see how people manage without ARush, and to that end I also suggested a build that I would use if I were to attempt it.

However, knowing myself, I know that I would find it less interesting than playing an Engineer with an assault rifle and Neural Shock, and using Zaeed for Concussive Blast and Disruptor ammo. Of course, I play on PC so I also have the option of modding the game to allow for different class load outs, rather than waiting until I reach the DCS for a given weapon type, and I admit that this may be a determining factor in my opinion on this play style.

Modifié par kstarler, 30 juin 2011 - 09:51 .

[Huckebein]

Here's a straight-up infantry build I started fairly recently, with my Tank Girl-esque Fem Shep (haven't played ME2 for a long time, so I'm a bit rusty):

Modifié par Huckebein, 06 juillet 2011 - 03:18 .

[xassantex]

i think Stasis could help very much if you renounce to AR .
It buys you time, esp. on enhanced stasis . ( plus it damages enemies ) . So you can deal with other enemies while a biggie is frozen. ( on the IFF mission, i even would freeze 2 scions while dealing with husks , and refreeze them ... rinse and repeat as the CD is pretty fast once you get the CD upgrade ) .

[xassantex]

kstarler wrote...

VirtualAlex wrote...

I already beat the game with a soldier. I already abused AR and know how busted it is. Sure it's fun to just AR and then headshot 4 enemies with the mattock before going back to normal speed... it's cool.

I will agree with you that ARush + Mattock = Way too easy and boring. However, you mention headshotting 4 enemies with a single ARush (unless I'm misreading that). What difficulty are you playing on?

My suggestion would be to try a higher difficulty (if you're not already on Insanity) and use the Avenger/Vindicator/Revenant instead of the Mattock. I think you might find the class more engaging and even find ARush more interesting with a more balanced weapon/difficulty. I find that a super aggressive Revenant style of play is very fun, as Sinosleep illustrates in his Rambo video, to be a lot more fun than the optimal Widow/Mattock/Heightened AR style.

just watched the clip, it's impressive. i take it that efficiency comes  from many playthroughs. But he's using AR a lot which is what the OP wants to avoid. 

[kstarler]

xassantex wrote...

just watched the clip, it's impressive. i take it that efficiency comes from many playthroughs. But he's using AR a lot which is what the OP wants to avoid.

The premise of the thread is that the Soldier is far too powerful with ARush. I proposed an alternative that uses ARush but involves avoiding cover when possible and using a (post Firepower DLC) sub-optimal weapon loadout, potentially negating some of the advantages of ARush. The conversation appeared to have taken more of a turn of looking for alternatives to the boring ARush + Mattock gameplay, and hence the suggestion was put forth.

Also, while Hukebein's video is a fine example that an ARush-less play style is viable, the absence of other powers for the Soldier to use is glaring, not to mention that CS is clearly not powerful enough to replace ARush (though effective use of Flashbang Grenades might come close.)

Modifié par kstarler, 06 juillet 2011 - 06:25 .

[Huckebein]

More fun times with no adrenaline:

Archangel Base - Part 1

Omega Slums - Part 2

So far so good.  I'm opting for a full upgrade on my storm speed, so I'm concentrating on maxing out combat mastery first.

Modifié par Huckebein, 20 juillet 2011 - 02:50 .

[CajNatalie]

If there's ever a new DLC with a bonus power that fits a Soldier (not holding my breath, just a 'what if' scenario), I'd consider doing a 1 point ARush Soldier as my third soldier, with said bonus power.
Everything else maxed out (except Concussive, of course, since it's not even available at that ARush level).

But I'd never go without ARush cold turkey. =/
Soldier would feel so weak without it to me. Call me bad at the Soldier class if you want (I won't deny that).

Modifié par CajNatalie, 23 juillet 2011 - 12:08 .