889 réponses à ce sujet

[Maugrim]

ipgd wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

And how exactly is "we didn't have time." not damage control garbage?  If anything it's *more* damage control than simpy confessing "we decided not to use it." 

Especially given what happened with ME2 where the "lack of time" excuse is complete bull since they had 6 goddamn LIs and Kelly! 

Specifically the THERE WERE NEVER ANY GAYS IN SPACE line of rhetoric they started toting.

It's PG-13 AND LIARA ISN'T FEMALE eleventy 1!!@!

[Raanz]

Ryzaki wrote...
Here.  

Apologies if I screwed up the quote-snipping.

Both Shepard voice actors recorded both sides of the romance. The romance dialog was included in the main follower conversation file, and ultimately, it was considered faster just to have the actor do a take on every dialog line, regardless of whether it was one that would ever fire in game, than to spend part of the VO session trying to figure out whether a given line was on the romance track or not.

Once the lines were recorded, there was a brief high-level discussion about whether we should make Kaiden and Ashley bisexual, since the lines were already there. The leads decided not to do it. The lines work on a technical level, but they didn't do justice to the characters and sounded very strange sometimes. Beyond that, there were questions about having to do a different cutscene for different genders.

 But to be clear, it was never part of the plan. It was only briefly considered after the lines were recorded, and it was only recorded because it was easier and faster than marking some lines as "Hale only records".

First post is Patrick Weekes. 

Thanks for that link as well.
As far as the folks saying Liara was not a s/s option...well technically, in the true spirit of the story, Liara wasn't. Alien species, monogendered, feminine in nature.  So I have to side with the folks that worked on the game.

[Ryzaki]

makenzieshepard wrote...
It's PG-13 AND LIARA ISN'T FEMALE eleventy 1!!@!

 

Which is funny but if that quote applies for that so does the "we ran out of time." quote. 

[Sierra Crysis]

makenzieshepard wrote...

Sierra Crysis wrote...

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

Honestly, I wouldn't care if the romances were bisexual from the start.

They didn't know there was in it then.

Fixed

LOL! Nice..

Modifié par Sierra Crysis, 27 juin 2011 - 07:44 .

[ipgd]

Raanz wrote...

Thanks for that link as well.
As far as the folks saying Liara was not a s/s option...well technically, in the true spirit of the story, Liara wasn't. Alien species, monogendered, feminine in nature.  So I have to side with the folks that worked on the game.

Liara is an s/s option for Shepard.

She's also certainly biologically female sexed.

Modifié par ipgd, 27 juin 2011 - 07:45 .

[Maugrim]

Raanz wrote...

Thanks for that link as well.
As far as the folks saying Liara was not a s/s option...well technically, in the true spirit of the story, Liara wasn't. Alien species, monogendered, feminine in nature.  So I have to side with the folks that worked on the game.

Folks in the game have also said she's female.  Way more than have ever spouted the "not a woman" BS.  Also more recently.

Oh and here is the source before you ask.  First video.

Also check out this topic we did to actually get people thinking about that ridiculous and flawed line of reasoning.

Modifié par makenzieshepard, 27 juin 2011 - 07:48 .

[Ryzaki]

Raanz wrote...

Thanks for that link as well.
As far as the folks saying Liara was not a s/s option...well technically, in the true spirit of the story, Liara wasn't. Alien species, monogendered, feminine in nature.  So I have to side with the folks that worked on the game.

The Codex ITSELF says the Asari are not asexual and are female. 

So I have to side with the ingame codex you know...the ones the folks who worked on the game made. 

[ReallyRue]

ipgd wrote...

Raanz wrote...

Thanks for that link as well.
As far as the folks saying Liara was not a s/s option...well technically, in the true spirit of the story, Liara wasn't. Alien species, monogendered, feminine in nature.  So I have to side with the folks that worked on the game.

Liara is an s/s option for Shepard.

She's also certainly biologically female sexed.

Very true. A 100% heterosexual femShep would not have been attracted to Liara. Because she looks like a woman, sounds like a woman, refers to herself in gendered terms.

[Rinji the Bearded]

Despite the fact that they decided against bi LIs in the beginning, it was nowhere stated that Kaidan and Ashley were not bi LIs because they were written to be purely straight.

And femshep falling in love with an Asari, which walks, talks, and looks like a female, is a s/s relationship for female Shepard.

[Raanz]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

Raanz wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
Here.  

Apologies if I screwed up the quote-snipping.

Both Shepard voice actors recorded both sides of the romance. The romance dialog was included in the main follower conversation file, and ultimately, it was considered faster just to have the actor do a take on every dialog line, regardless of whether it was one that would ever fire in game, than to spend part of the VO session trying to figure out whether a given line was on the romance track or not.

Once the lines were recorded, there was a brief high-level discussion about whether we should make Kaiden and Ashley bisexual, since the lines were already there. The leads decided not to do it. The lines work on a technical level, but they didn't do justice to the characters and sounded very strange sometimes. Beyond that, there were questions about having to do a different cutscene for different genders.

 But to be clear, it was never part of the plan. It was only briefly considered after the lines were recorded, and it was only recorded because it was easier and faster than marking some lines as "Hale only records".

First post is Patrick Weekes. 

Thanks for that link as well.
As far as the folks saying Liara was not a s/s option...well technically, in the true spirit of the story, Liara wasn't. Alien species, monogendered, feminine in nature.  So I have to side with the folks that worked on the game.

Monogendered means one gender.

Yeah yeah, I know what mono-gender means....that was a poor choice of words ( I realized this after I had posted).
I don't have much else to discuss on the Asari matter, as my point was invalid.

Ok carry-on.

[Ryzaki]

ReallyRue wrote...

ipgd wrote...

Raanz wrote...

Thanks for that link as well.
As far as the folks saying Liara was not a s/s option...well technically, in the true spirit of the story, Liara wasn't. Alien species, monogendered, feminine in nature.  So I have to side with the folks that worked on the game.

Liara is an s/s option for Shepard.

She's also certainly biologically female sexed.

Very true. A 100% heterosexual femShep would not have been attracted to Liara. Because she looks like a woman, sounds like a woman, refers to herself in gendered terms.

Not to mention FemShep canhave thewhole "BUT YOU'RE A WOMAN!" moment when Liara confesses to her. Proving that yes no matter what Liara call herself FemShep sees her as a woman. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 27 juin 2011 - 07:49 .

[Ryzaki]

RinjiRenee wrote...

Despite the fact that they decided against bi LIs in the beginning, it was nowhere stated that Kaidan and Ashley were not bi LIs because they were written to be purely straight.

And femshep falling in love with an Asari, which walks, talks, and looks like a female, is a s/s relationship for female Shepard.

 

Indeed I never said it made them straight. It does mean however they weren't written to be bisexual love interests in ME1 and cut out at the last minute like some are claiming. 

[Rinji the Bearded]

Ryzaki wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...

Despite the fact that they decided against bi LIs in the beginning, it was nowhere stated that Kaidan and Ashley were not bi LIs because they were written to be purely straight.

And femshep falling in love with an Asari, which walks, talks, and looks like a female, is a s/s relationship for female Shepard.

 

Indeed I never said it made them straight. It does mean however they weren't written to be bisexual love interests in ME1 and cut out at the last minute like some are claiming. 

Which I do understand.  I was just trying to make a point before some commented that Kaidan and Ashley were indeed straight because of the quoted statement.

[shepskisaac]

Ryzaki wrote...
The dude talking about time constraints didn't work on the actual game. The guy talking about the discussion did. I take dude who worked on game word higher than dude who didn't. Just sayin'.

Patrick Weekes was a junior writer in ME1 who only did minor side quests and had nothing to do with characters and whatnot and he came very late to the project.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 27 juin 2011 - 07:55 .

[Rinji the Bearded]

IsaacShep wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
The dude talking about time constraints didn't work on the actual game. The guy talking about the discussion did. I take dude who worked on game word higher than dude who didn't. Just sayin'.

Patrick was a junior writer in ME1 who only did minor side quests and had nothing to do with characters and whatnot and he came very late to the project.

Who was Thomas then?

[Ryzaki]

IsaacShep wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
The dude talking about time constraints didn't work on the actual game. The guy talking about the discussion did. I take dude who worked on game word higher than dude who didn't. Just sayin'.

Patrick was a junior writer in ME1 who only did minor side quests and had nothing to do with characters and whatnot and he came very late to the project.

 

So obviously he saw less of what was going on than a guy who admits he had nothing at all to do with the game at all? Alrighty then.   If Weekes word is suspect Roy's highly suspect considering he wasn't there at all. 

@Rinji: Thomas R Roy was his name I believe. He was a programmer for a different game entirely. He admitted himself to not having worked on ME (I believe that quote is missing some pieces but I can't find it because the site overhaul) and yeah. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 27 juin 2011 - 07:59 .

[shepskisaac]

Ryzaki wrote...
So obviously he saw less of what was going on than a guywho admits he had nothing at all to do with the game at all? Alrighty then. 

No, I'm saying his opinion is not the holy grail you try so hard to portray it as. Not to mention that even Patrick's post does say the decision came down to time constraints. Keep trying Ryazki

Modifié par IsaacShep, 27 juin 2011 - 08:01 .

[Eurhetemec]

Ryzaki wrote...

It was intended but they decided against it because the lines didn't fit. I'm guessing they got to the stage where Meer was recording and went "nah" because Sabarge(however the hell you spell his name) doesn't have any m/m exclusive lines. 

The dude talking about time constraints didn't work on the actual game. The guy talking about the discussion did. I take dude who worked on game word higher than dude who didn't. Just sayin'.

The quote is accurate, but it's problematic, because it's very hard to believe BioWare had any consistent plan here. It seems like they're reacting first, and rationalizing later. So I believe Patrick when he says they decided to stop recording, but I don't believe him when he says that there was "never" any intention to use them. I believe he's overstating/rationalizing a position.

Another example of BioWare inconsistency/rationalizing came with ME2, where they cut out F/F romances as well as M/M ones, only leaving Kelly in as a quasi-Romance for either gender.

BioWare reps, including the head of BioWare, explained this was about being "true to the character of Shepard" and went on and on and on and on and on about how Shepard had an existing personality and thus they couldn't do certain things. It was patently nonsense, given Shepard can alternate being being an angelic do-gooder and an alien-kicking thug (especially in ME1), but they said it.

Then in ME3, they've indicated the F/F and M/M relationships are in, again, suddenly, presumably because they've realized that it's 2011 and they get more sales by putting them in than leaving them out (as with the Dragon Ages, for example), which clearly illustrates the whole deal with "Shepard's existing personality" (which was apparently not gay or something? Makes no sense, of course, given nothing about Shepard's personality is incompatible with homosexuality - for example he never mentions kids to anyone but Liara, who can mate with either gender, and then only jokingly) was just BioWare engaging in damage-control and after-the-fact rationalization.

I would put the stuff with claiming they "never" intended to use those lines in the same box, frankly. Assumption, yeah, it is, but not exactly an extreme one.

[Ryzaki]

IsaacShep wrote...
No, I'm saying his opinion is not the holy grail you try so hard to portray it as. Not to mention that even Patrick's posts does say the decisioin came down to time constraints. Keep trying Ryazki

 

Actually no his post saysit was decided to resources and the dialogue not fitting. 

But keep trying though. 

[HTTP 404]

Imperium Alpha wrote...

HTTP 404 wrote...

Berkilak wrote...

They could (and probably will) introduce a non-asari bisexual character instead of picking someone who has already been written as straight.

Kaiden was written and voiced for a bi sexual role.  It was a director's cut that got rid of the s/s romancing.

No thats simply how BioWare work. They record every line imaginable and keep the one they want after for their character. They always did that.

You basically just reworded what I said and then said I was wrong...

[shepskisaac]

Ryzaki wrote...
Actually no his post saysit was decided to resources and the dialogue not fitting.
But keep trying though. 

Yeah. Because copy+pasted dialogues from female romance do not fit in male/male context. Duh. Like anyone needed Patrick's confirmation of that to realize that. Since the copy+pasted dialogues didn't fit, it meant they would have to rewrite/write new ones and they didn't have time to do ti = time constraints. And did you miss the part talking about cutscenes? Time constraints again. Keep it going Ryazki, doesn't help Joker in a bit.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 27 juin 2011 - 08:03 .

[Rinji the Bearded]

Ryzaki wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...
No, I'm saying his opinion is not the holy grail you try so hard to portray it as. Not to mention that even Patrick's posts does say the decisioin came down to time constraints. Keep trying Ryazki

 

Actually no his post saysit was decided to resources and the dialogue not fitting. 

But keep trying though. 

I've learned not to believe devs word about anything unless it's from a main director or something.

[Ryzaki]

Eurhetemec wrote...
The quote is accurate, but it's problematic, because it's very hard to believe BioWare had any consistent plan here. It seems like they're reacting first, and rationalizing later. So I believe Patrick when he says they decided to stop recording, but I don't believe him when he says that there was "never" any intention to use them. I believe he's overstating/rationalizing a position.

Which is why I do believe the lines didn't fit. Liara's lines were already done (and BW has to have the f/f option in.) and when it came time for the m/m option they were not willing to do do a seperate cutscene (because it wouldn't work the same as the m/f and f/f versions) and record different dialogue since the one they had sounded odd (which is silly because 99% of Meer's dialogue sounded odd in ME1). At the same time they probably didn't think it would get the amount of contraversy (because honestly the only game they had m/m in was JE so...yeah them going backwards probably didn't seem like a big deal). 

Another example of BioWare inconsistency/rationalizing came with ME2, where they cut out F/F romances as well as M/M ones, only leaving Kelly in as a quasi-Romance for either gender.

BioWare reps, including the head of BioWare, explained this was about being "true to the character of Shepard" and went on and on and on and on and on about how Shepard had an existing personality and thus they couldn't do certain things. It was patently nonsense, given Shepard can alternate being being an angelic do-gooder and an alien-kicking thug (especially in ME1), but they said it.

Then in ME3, they've indicated the F/F and M/M relationships are in, again, suddenly, presumably because they've realized that it's 2011 and they get more sales by putting them in than leaving them out (as with the Dragon Ages, for example), which clearly illustrates the whole deal with "Shepard's existing personality" (which was apparently not gay or something? Makes no sense, of course, given nothing about Shepard's personality is incompatible with homosexuality - for example he never mentions kids to anyone but Liara, who can mate with either gender, and then only jokingly) was just BioWare engaging in damage-control and after-the-fact rationalization.

I would put the stuff with claiming they "never" intended to use those lines in the same box, frankly. Assumption, yeah, it is, but not exactly an extreme one.

 

True it is a rational assumption. Frankly I only put anything after ME2 came out to them starting to backpeddle. In ME I can see why they'd think it was no big deal to leave them out. ME2 though...yeah that...that was off. Especially given DAO. Attention didn't start focusing on it until ME2 though and that's when all that ridculous "oh shes not a female!" facepalm worthy statements came out. They couldn't use the "we didn't know alot of people wanted the content." excuse after ME1. (and DAO where they actually had data on how many people used it) so they started using any excuse they could which...was kind of funny in a facepalm worthy way. (Especially the f/f isn't as innocent as m/f.) 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 27 juin 2011 - 08:13 .

[Ryzaki]

 

IsaacShep wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
Actually no his post saysit was decided to resources and the dialogue not fitting.
But keep trying though. 

Yeah. Because copy+pasted dialogues from female romance do not fit in male/male context. Duh. Like anyone needed Patrick's confirmation of that to realize that. Since the copy+pasted dialogues didn't fit, it meant they would have to rewrite/write new ones and they didn't have time to do ti = time constraints. And did you miss the part talking about cutscenes? Time constraints again. Keep it going Ryazki, doesn't help Joker in a bit.

 

Riiight. Because I'm on some vendetta to get Joker as the m/m option.  Do grow up.