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[masseffect5]

I HATE KAIDEN! he can go die on virmire.

[Siansonea]

masseffect5 wrote...

I HATE KAIDEN! he can go die on virmire.

Now just wait a min...oh. For a second I thought you were talking about Kaidan. I probably wouldn't like Kaiden either, is he some NPC on one of the N7 missions? I don't really pay attention to those.

[shepskisaac]

Luc0s wrote...
If now, all of the sudden, Kaidan would come to Shepard and expres his gay feelings for Shep, I would be shocked and I would feel awkward. It would be something that Shepard would NOT expect from his brother Kaidan. Shepard would tell Kaidan the feelings aren't mutual, resulting in a dissapointed Kaiden. It would be weird and it would not be a fun experience for both Kaidan and Shepard and me as the player.

Imagine your best friend who's like a brother to you. You think you know him, but you don't, since he has been bisexual all the time and he has/had a crush on you all the time. He never told you, but now finally he does. How would that make you feel?

But that's what Tali did in ME2. You thought she was your lil sister and BFF and bam. Yet you say this didn't bother you.

And again. Kaidan will NOT reveal any feelings to Shepard himself. He thinks Shepard is straight which means you have to make the first move. If you don't you will be always on the bro terms with him and nothing changes.

[KawaiiKatie]

Luc0s wrote...

Now Kaidan and Shepard go way back. They've been serving together for a long time. During ME1 and even in ME2 Shepard and Kaidan have been building on a relationship als collegues, as friends and as brothers in arms.

So, were you against the idea of Garrus and Tali "suddenly" showing an interest in Shepard after he/she died? You were friends! Collegues! You got to know each other, but then they had to ruin it by developing feelings for your Shepard! Or is it somehow more "natural" or "believable" for heterosexuals to develope feelings for their old friends?

Imagine your best friend who's like a brother to you. You think you know him, but you don't, since he has been bisexual all the time and he has/had a crush on you all the time. He never told you, but now finally he does. How would that make you feel?

Hopefully, I would be accepting of my best friend's sexuality, and if I didn't reciprocate his or her romantic feelings, I'd simply turn down the advances. I wouldn't let it ruin the friendship, or my opinion of that friend. The new information wouldn't change or invalidate everything we've been through together.

[KawaiiKatie]

Luc0s wrote...

So long story short: It's all about trusting each other and assuming that you know each other. My Shepard thinks he knows Kaidan. Kaidan is like a brother to him and Shepard knows the feeling is mutual. But what if Kaidan all of the sudden is bisexual and tells Shepard he likes him? It would be a gamebreaker for me.

So, again, did it "break" the game for you when you realized that Tali had a crush on your male Shepard? Did you suddenly feel like you "didn't know" Tali any more, at that you couldn't trust her? Or did you think it was "cute"? How is Tali's little heterosexual crush more understandable and forgivable than Kaidan's bisexual crush? Just because you can't understand slowly developing feelings for a same-sex friend over the course of several years doesn't mean that it would be unbelievable (or "gamebreaking") in a story.

[Medhia Nox]

@Luc0s - I actually did this to my best friend and "brother" (no, not biological).

You don't need to know details - but we knew each other since before I realized who I was (easily two decades longer than Kaidan and Shepard) - and certainly before I realized how I felt.

And - he's clearly a better man than most (for a straight guy) cause he said: "I'm honored, thanks man. But no." So no - not every straight guy is going to cry in his soup about the "great betrayal" of finding out their best friend is a ******. Honestly - sometimes straight guys are so melodramatic.

And that - was that. I had to get over my own ****... but that's my deal, and I did. And we're as close friends as we ever were.

====

@KawaiiKatie - on behalf of any good friend you might have in the future that does confess something of that nature to you. I hope you can deal as well.

=====

There are gay people out there that have entire lives lived as a lie - where they have kids and a wife and take good care of them - but they know they're gay. Eventually - things break and they can't take it.

That's an extreme example.

Kaidan telling someone he's known for about a decade (minus two + years) that he just figured out who he really is... isn't really the big drama some people make it out to be.

====

And honestly - the girl he talked about, he was very non-committed about his feelings.

I never even got the impression they ever touched.

So - Kaidan had a "good friend who was a girl" - hmm... sounds "gay" to me.

[Feanor_II]

The only comment Kaidan did regarding his sexual orientation was:
- Flirting with femShep
- Some comment about being interested in Liara

He did not mention any ******/bi preferences and making him so is undestood by many people (including myself if it finally happens) as a forced change of a stablished character too please a sector of the fanbase.

[shepskisaac]

Luc0s wrote...
You know what I think the big difference between Tali & Garrus versus Kaidan is? From friends from the opposite gender it would be unexpected when they suddenly have a crush on you, but from your bro who has the same gender as you it would be EVEN MORE UNEXPECTED. I think that's the big shock. Not only is it a surprise to hear your best friend is gay, it's also a surprise that he always had a crush on you. It's like 2 surprises in 1.

Sure, I would accept my friends sexuality, but it still would be an unpleasant surprise at first.

All I( cas say is that you just shouldn't assume things, even if the likehood is small. You know ******/bisexuality exists, you know it may happen tobe someone you know/have known for years.

And again. Kaidan thinks Shep is straight = Kaidan won't make any move unless Shep (you the player) does.

Feanor_II wrote...
He did not mention any ******/bi preferences and making him so is undestood by many people (including myself if it finally happens) as a forced change of a stablished character too please a sector of the fanbase.

You can't change something that wasn't established in the first place. If he wasn't making any mentions to bi preferences, it means its a blank state, and can go either way. That's just logic. Doesn't matter if the way it goes is not the way you like it. Applies to everyone, supporters and opponents.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 27 juin 2011 - 09:21 .

[Rinji the Bearded]

Feanor_II wrote...

The only comment Kaidan did regarding his sexual orientation was:
- Flirting with femShep
- Some comment about being interested in Liara

He did not mention any ******/bi preferences and making him so is undestood by many people (including myself if it finally happens) as a forced change of a stablished character too please a sector of the fanbase.

Bisexual men are interested in women.

And this wouldn't be the first time that the writers have changed the apparent sexuality of a character to give something to the fans.

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 27 juin 2011 - 09:21 .

[AngelicMachinery]

Luc0s wrote...

Well, about Tali: I've always figured that she liked Shepard, even back in 2007 when I first played ME1. I always found it weird why I couldn't romance Tali in that game because to me it was clear that she had a secret crush on Shepard. But on the other hand, Tali did appear to be a bit young in ME1, so maybe that's why Shepard didn't romance her back in ME1, since it would be kinda pedo-ish, I guess.

As for Garrus. I wouldn't know since I've never played ME2 with a female Shepard. I played ME1 with a female Shepard once and I didn't like it, so I never took the effort fo play female Shepard in ME2.

You know what I think the big difference between Tali & Garrus versus Kaidan is? From friends from the opposite gender it would be unexpected when they suddenly have a crush on you, but from your bro who has the same gender as you it would be EVEN MORE UNEXPECTED. I think that's the big shock. Not only is it a surprise to hear your best friend is gay, it's also a surprise that he always had a crush on you. It's like 2 surprises in 1.

Sure, I would accept my friends sexuality, but it still would be an unpleasant surprise at first.

But really it's not,  sure, it may be more rare simply based on numbers but if were working on an equal playing feild here and ignoring ratios it would occur just as often in homosexuals as it does in heterosexuals.  Unless being a "BRO" is some sort of transcendent state that completely eliminates affection and you spend all your time swilling beer and talking about "DAT ASS".

I don't remember doing any of these things with Kaidan though.

Modifié par AngelicMachinery, 27 juin 2011 - 09:21 .

[VirtualStranger]

Feanor_II wrote...

The only comment Kaidan did regarding his sexual orientation was:
- Flirting with femShep
- Some comment about being interested in Liara

He did not mention any ******/bi preferences and making him so is undestood by many people (including myself if it finally happens) as a forced change of a stablished character too please a sector of the fanbase.

So people are automatically "straight until proven otherwise"?

[Maugrim]

Feanor_II wrote...

The only comment Kaidan did regarding his sexual orientation was:
- Flirting with femShep
- Some comment about being interested in Liara

He did not mention any ******/bi preferences and making him so is undestood by many people (including myself if it finally happens) as a forced change of a stablished character too please a sector of the fanbase.

Just so long as you understand that your limited understanding is almost assuredly wrong in Kaidan's place.  Opinion does not equal fact.  And even if Kaidan doesn't turn out to be open to s/s LI we still aren't wrong because we are arguing "could/maybe" not "is for sure"

And forced? Please, Bioware is  a big boy.

Oh I give up you caught us here is our nefarious plan to force the gays on everyone....

Modifié par makenzieshepard, 27 juin 2011 - 09:27 .

[Medhia Nox]

@VirtualStranger - to a straight dude? Yes.

[KawaiiKatie]

Luc0s wrote...

Well, about Tali: I've always figured that she liked Shepard, even back in 2007 when I first played ME1. I always found it weird why I couldn't romance Tali in that game because to me it was clear that she had a secret crush on Shepard.

And I never saw a "secret crush" from Tali at all. Different interpretations. Personally, I always felt like Kaidan and manShep could've been "more than" friends, if one of them had shown an interest in the other.

You know what I think the big difference between Tali & Garrus versus Kaidan is? From friends with the opposite gender it would be unexpected when they suddenly have a crush on you, but from your bro who has the same gender as you it would be EVEN MORE UNEXPECTED. I think that's the big shock. Not only is it a surprise to hear your best friend is gay, it's also a surprise that he always had a crush on you. It's like 2 surprises in 1.

Sure, I would accept my friends sexuality, with no problem at all. But
his romantic feeling towards me? I would accept that, but it still would
be an unpleasant surprise at first.

Yup. There it is. Right there. When your opposite-sex friend has a crush on you, it's a shock, but nothing you can't handle. But when your same-sex friend has a crush on you, OMG, DOUBLE-SUPRISE, UNPLEASANT, DO NOT WANT, YOU HAVE ALTERED MY PERCEPTION OF YOU FOREVER AND NOTHING WILL EVER BE THE SAME AGAIN, WE CANNOT BE BROS BECAUSE YOU HAVE BEEN SUPRESSING FEELINGS FOR ME ALL THESE YEARS! AND NOW THAT YOU FINALLY FEEL CLOSE ENOUGH TO ME THAT YOU CAN BE HONEST ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS, I JUST DON'T KNOW YOU ANY MORE!

It's heterosexual privilege, is what it is. When a character your BFF developes a heterosexual crush on you, you think, "Oh well, that was BOUND to happen because no man and woman can be as close as we are without developing FEELINGS for one another." But when a same-sex BFF develops feelings on you, it's time to shout all 'WHOAH, HEY NOW, WHERE DID THAT COME FROM? I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH GAYS, BUT KEEP YOUR ****** OFF ME!"

[GreenSoda]

VirtualStranger wrote...

Feanor_II wrote...

The only comment Kaidan did regarding his sexual orientation was:
- Flirting with femShep
- Some comment about being interested in Liara

He did not mention any ******/bi preferences and making him so is undestood by many people (including myself if it finally happens) as a forced change of a stablished character too please a sector of the fanbase.

So people are automatically "straight until proven otherwise"?

They are whatever sexuality they expressed possesing. Kaidain expressed being straight -if now, in ME3, he turns out bi, there better be a reason besides "I was always bi, lol".

[VirtualStranger]

makenzieshepard wrote...

Feanor_II wrote...

The only comment Kaidan did regarding his sexual orientation was:
- Flirting with femShep
- Some comment about being interested in Liara

He
did not mention any ******/bi preferences and making him so is undestood
by many people (including myself if it finally happens) as a forced
change of a stablished character too please a sector of the
fanbase.

Just so long as you understand that your limited
understanding is almost assuredly wrong in Kaidan's place.  Opinion
does not equal fact.  And even if Kaidan doesn't turn out to be open to
s/s LI we still aren't wrong because we are arguing "could/maybe" not
"is for sure"

And forced? Please, Bioware is  a big boy.

Oh I give up you caught us here is our nefarious plan....

*IMG snip*

KawaiiKatie wrote...

You know what I think the big difference between Tali & Garrus versus Kaidan is? From
friends with the opposite gender it would be unexpected when they
suddenly have a crush on you, but from your bro who has the same gender
as you it would be EVEN MORE UNEXPECTED. I think that's the big
shock. Not only is it a surprise to hear your best friend is gay, it's
also a surprise that he always had a crush on you. It's like 2 surprises
in 1.

Sure, I would accept my friends sexuality, with no problem at all. But
his romantic feeling towards me? I would accept that, but it still would
be an unpleasant surprise at first.

Yup.
There it is. Right there. When your opposite-sex friend has a crush on
you, it's a shock, but nothing you can't handle. But when your same-sex
friend has a crush on you, OMG, DOUBLE-SUPRISE, UNPLEASANT, DO NOT WANT,
YOU HAVE ALTERED MY PERCEPTION OF YOU FOREVER AND NOTHING WILL EVER BE
THE SAME AGAIN, WE CANNOT BE BROS BECAUSE YOU HAVE BEEN SUPRESSING
FEELINGS FOR ME ALL THESE YEARS! AND NOW THAT YOU FINALLY FEEL CLOSE
ENOUGH TO ME THAT YOU CAN BE HONEST ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS, I JUST DON'T
KNOW YOU ANY MORE!

It's heterosexual privilege, is what it is.
When a character your BFF developes a heterosexual crush on you, you
think, "Oh well, that was BOUND to happen because no man and woman can
be as close as we are without developing FEELINGS for one another." But
when a same-sex BFF develops feelings on you, it's time to shout all
'WHOAH, HEY NOW, WHERE DID THAT COME FROM? I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH GAYS, BUT KEEP YOUR ****** OFF ME!"

These posts are both beautiful. Fantastic, really.

Medhia Nox wrote...
@VirtualStranger - to a straight dude? Yes.

See "heterosexual priviledge" above.

Modifié par VirtualStranger, 27 juin 2011 - 09:32 .

[Siansonea]

I think it is SO telling that of everything going on in the real world and the Mass Effect world, THIS is the issue everyone gets worked up over.

Yes, ladies and gentlemen, THIS subject, whether or not Kaidan Alenko is bisexual or exclusively heterosexual, THIS is what the players care about. Oddly enough, the majority of these Concerned Players are not card-carrying Kaidan fans who frequent the Kaidan fan thread and kibbutz about Brain Camp and Rhana and Vyrrnus and whatnot. Nope, they just don't want their "bro" to be "gay". It's times like these that I seriously question the BSN's lack of a "facepalm" emoticon graphic.

And this is why I think middle schools should be year-round rather than having summers off. <_<

[VirtualStranger]

They are whatever sexuality they expressed possesing. Kaidain expressed being straight -if now, in ME3, he turns out bi, there better be a reason besides "I was always bi, lol".

False. He expressed being attracted to women. That does not mean that he is not attracted to men.

Sexual preference isn't like the light-side/darkside bar in KotOR, but more like the paragon/renagede bars. The level of attraction to both groups are separate desires and are not linked together.

[GreenSoda]

VirtualStranger wrote...

They are whatever sexuality they expressed possesing. Kaidain expressed being straight -if now, in ME3, he turns out bi, there better be a reason besides "I was always bi, lol".

False. He expressed being attracted to women. That does not mean that he is not attracted to men.

Sexual preference isn't like the light-side/darkside bar in KotOR, but more like the paragon/renagede bars. The level of attraction to both groups are separate desires and are not linked together.

Also (somewhat) false. He expressed interest in women and at the same time he didn't express any interest in men. That at least would indicate that he likes men significantly *less* than women...if so I would like to know why in ME3 (or at least have this adressed).

Modifié par GreenSoda, 27 juin 2011 - 09:39 .