889 Antworten in diesem Thema

[Dhiro]

mya11 wrote...

Dhiro wrote...

Because he's hot and has a great personality.

@mya11

What is 'not cool for women Shepard'? Are you assuming that if Kaidan is bisexual he'll leave your Shepard and run to Jacob's arms? Now, that would be a sight.

Maybe, if Kaidan prefer gay, also my shepardette prefer stay single but for this moment I don't know because the devs no confirm the romance for him

Kaidan won't "prefer gay". That's why he would be bisexual and not homosexual.

[Berkilak]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Berkilak wrote...

The reasons you give explain the want, but it wouldn't explain a sudden change in that personality.

Personality != Sexuality

That's a completely different debate, but I will state that sexuality is an aspect of personality from a psychological point of view. As is gender (as opposed to the biological sex).

But I digress - a bisexual Kaidan is a shallow copout as opposed to a character written to be bisexual or gay (preferably gay).

[Dhiro]

Berkilak wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Berkilak wrote...

The reasons you give explain the want, but it wouldn't explain a sudden change in that personality.

Personality != Sexuality

That's a completely different debate, but I will state that sexuality is an aspect of personality from a psychological point of view. As is gender (as opposed to the biological sex).

But I digress - a bisexual Kaidan is a shallow copout as opposed to a character written to be bisexual or gay (preferably gay).

A bisexual Kaidan is the same thing as a heterosexual Kaidan. He just likes to sleep with men, too. And don't give me this 'sexuality is part of the personality', it's idiotic.

[upsettingshorts]

Berkilak wrote...

But I digress - a bisexual Kaidan is a shallow copout as opposed to a character written to be bisexual or gay (preferably gay).

In a perfect world, sure.

But there are zots to consider.  I personally have zero interest whatsoever in S/S romances in ME3 or any other BioWare game, but in recognizing that others do, I wholeheartedly endorse giving them access to it in a manner which requires the least amount of zots.  Which is, quite simply, to make love interests bisexual (or ProtagonistSexual).  It's not "shallow,"  it makes efficient use of limited resources to appeal to the broadest possible customer base.

It doesn't harm me in the least, and it lets people who prefer S/S romances enjoy the love-interest content just as I do.  Those who do claim it harms them need - and often, immediately have - their motivations scrutinized.

Personally, I find many of the arguments against S/S inclusion in BioWare games as inherently selfish, considering that those in favor of them simply ask to be able to experience romance storylines with the same relatability and sexual preference that others in the majority take for granted.

Keep in mind that when you argue for a new gay (or even a new bisexual) character to be written to "appeal to the S/S crowd" you are endorsing directing zots away from existing characters to new ones for the express purpose of giving "those people" someone to sleep with.  I maintain it is in the interests of players who have little to no interest in S/S romances to support ProtagonistSexual or bisexual love interests because it costs few zots to accomplish an inclusive goal.

Bearbeitet von Upsettingshorts, 27 Juni 2011 - 03:25 .

[steamcamel]

Because his voice sounds gay

[amcnow]

Berkilak wrote...

 Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against homosexuality, but he's shown no signs of "batting for the other team," so to speak, so far. And it would be quite odd to have him changing teams all of a sudden. Remember how weird it was when Anders came onto you out of the blue?

It would just feel incredibily forced if he were to "come out" at this point.

I agree.  There are other avenues for homosexuality.  There's no need for change of this sort on recurring characters.  Bi-sexuality is more doable (pun intended ), but would still feel a little awkward.

EDIT:  While this is a valid topic, similar ones have died in flames in the past.  I expect this one will eventually suffer the same fate.  I hope I'm wrong.

EDIT #2: Apparently, I'm wrong for my use of the word retcon.  I apologize to anyone who was hurt during the use of this word.  <_<

Bearbeitet von amcnow, 27 Juni 2011 - 04:02 .

[ipgd]

Berkilak wrote...

That's a completely different debate, but I will state that sexuality is an aspect of personality from a psychological point of view. As is gender (as opposed to the biological sex).

Not all people are the same. There are as many gay and bisexual men whose sexualities are ultimately irrelevant to their personalities and cultural associations as there are gay and bisexual men who get up on floats in assless chaps and tongue kiss other dudes while drunkenly dancing and singing It's Raining Men.

[Rinji the Bearded]

Sexuality has nothing to do with personality. It may be an element that helps to define you, but to say that it takes a certain personality type to swing both ways, or to be homosexual for that matter? I can say for a fact that homosexual/bisexual people vary in personality just as much as heterosexual people do.

[Berkilak]

Dhiro wrote...

A bisexual Kaidan is the same thing as a heterosexual Kaidan. He just likes to sleep with men, too. And don't give me this 'sexuality is part of the personality', it's idiotic.

No need for personal attacks - just speaking to my training in anthropology, which, as an academic subject, isn't always politically correct. Sexual preference is an aspect of personality, but personality in an anthropological/psychological context has a broader meaning than the popular definition.

And a bisexual Kaidan would have been the same thing as a heterosexual Kaidan... if he was bisexual in the first place. He wasn't. Thus, Kaidan is heterosexual. If he wanted to make his move, he would have. To have him do so now simply to pander to forumites would be exceedingly incredulous.

[Dhiro]

Berkilak wrote...

Dhiro wrote...

A bisexual Kaidan is the same thing as a heterosexual Kaidan. He just likes to sleep with men, too. And don't give me this 'sexuality is part of the personality', it's idiotic.

No need for personal attacks - just speaking to my training in anthropology, which, as an academic subject, isn't always politically correct. Sexual preference is an aspect of personality, but personality in an anthropological/psychological context has a broader meaning than the popular definition.

And a bisexual Kaidan would have been the same thing as a heterosexual Kaidan... if he was bisexual in the first place. He wasn't. Thus, Kaidan is heterosexual. If he wanted to make his move, he would have. To have him do so now simply to pander to forumites would be exceedingly incredulous.

I see. Your training in anthropology is idiotic.

[upsettingshorts]

Berkilak wrote...

if he was bisexual in the first place. He wasn't.

Prove it. 

Show your work.

Bearbeitet von Upsettingshorts, 27 Juni 2011 - 03:27 .

[Berkilak]

RinjiRenee wrote...

Sexuality has nothing to do with personality. It may be an element that helps to define you, but to say that it takes a certain personality type to swing both ways, or to be homosexual for that matter? I can say for a fact that homosexual/bisexual people vary in personality just as much as heterosexual people do.

Where did I state that sexuality determines (the popular definition of) personality? It is merely an aspect of personality.

[Berkilak]

Dhiro wrote...

I see. Your training in anthropology is idiotic.

I fail to see why this is needed and why you're taking so much offense to that assertion - care to elaborate?

[Rinji the Bearded]

Berkilak wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...

Sexuality has nothing to do with personality. It may be an element that helps to define you, but to say that it takes a certain personality type to swing both ways, or to be homosexual for that matter? I can say for a fact that homosexual/bisexual people vary in personality just as much as heterosexual people do.

Where did I state that sexuality determines (the popular definition of) personality? It is merely an aspect of personality.

It doesn't define your personality, is what I stated.  There is nothing about Kaidan's personaltiy that would tell me "I am a straight man."  He sleeps with women, yes.  But so do bisexual males.

[Dhiro]

Berkilak wrote...

Dhiro wrote...

I see. Your training in anthropology is idiotic.

I fail to see why this is needed and why you're taking so much offense to that assertion - care to elaborate?

I can't really believe that you could expect anything else after saying that sexuality defines your personality. The way people treat your because of your sexuality, maybe. But sexuality alone? Hardly.

Besides, thinking that Kaidan would change in anyway besides getting a new dry-humping scene is just silly.

[bleetman]

I'll just drop this here.

leggywillow wrote...

I really don't understand these topics. How is it rewriting or retconning the character? Did Garrus and Tali get retconned in ME2, since they didn't show any romantic interest in Shepard in ME1? For pity's sake, people.

A good friend of mine apparently retconned herself recently. She dated men all through high school and college and even had a weird old man fetish for a while (yes, someone existed who found George Bush sexy). Then about 2 years ago she started dating a woman, and they got married one week ago. It was a big surprise for those of us who had listened to her rave endlessly about how sexy certain male members of Congress were.

I tell you, I tried my hardest to tell her that she was ruining her own continuity and that she was an obvious example of poor writing. She went and retconned her entire high school experience. Such a shame.

[Boombox]

I think Kaidan is the perfect option for s/s romance in ME3. He won't be alive in many male Shepards games unless he was saved in ME1. Ashley is the default VS for male Shep in ME2 and I'd bet the majority of male Sheps kept her alive anyway. So the s/s content might not even be seen unless you play ME1 and keep him alive. (I suppose the comic DLC would work too.. but you get my point)
Basically, I think he's a good way to have s/s content in the game for people who want it and for those who don't, probably won't even come across it anyway.

[amcnow]

I don't mean to sound rude, but some of you really need to look up the word "personality". A personality is a collection of traits based on emotion, attitude, behavior, etc. Sexuality does play a part in shaping one's personality. However, it is only one trait among many which determine who you are.

Don't confuse personality with stereotypes.

Bearbeitet von amcnow, 27 Juni 2011 - 03:35 .

[Berkilak]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Berkilak wrote...

if he was bisexual in the first place. He wasn't.

Prove it. 

Show your work.

ME1 Male Shepard uses Seduce Ashley!
It's super effective!
ME1 Male Shepard uses Seduce Liara!
It's super effective!
ME1 Male Shepard uses Seduce Kaidan.
Kaidan is immune!

If he was intended to be bisexual, why wasn't he? As a character in a narrative, if the developers intended him to be bisexual, they would have done so. I'm not saying that if he was a real person he couldn't have been hiding it, etc., but if you're making a game with romancable characters, if you wanted a character to be bisexual... why wouldn't they be?

[Cutlass Jack]

Volus Warlord wrote...

The gays love him? *shrugs*

Or the Straights really hate him.

[Berkilak]

Dhiro wrote...

Berkilak wrote...

Dhiro wrote...

I see. Your training in anthropology is idiotic.

I fail to see why this is needed and why you're taking so much offense to that assertion - care to elaborate?

I can't really believe that you could expect anything else after saying that sexuality defines your personality. The way people treat your because of your sexuality, maybe. But sexuality alone? Hardly.

Besides, thinking that Kaidan would change in anyway besides getting a new dry-humping scene is just silly.

Where did I say that sexuality defines personality? Never would I be so ignorant. Simply said sexuality was an aspect of personality... a very different assertion.

[Dhiro]

Berkilak wrote...

Dhiro wrote...

Berkilak wrote...

Dhiro wrote...

I see. Your training in anthropology is idiotic.

I fail to see why this is needed and why you're taking so much offense to that assertion - care to elaborate?

I can't really believe that you could expect anything else after saying that sexuality defines your personality. The way people treat your because of your sexuality, maybe. But sexuality alone? Hardly.

Besides, thinking that Kaidan would change in anyway besides getting a new dry-humping scene is just silly.

Where did I say that sexuality defines personality? Never would I be so ignorant. Simply said sexuality was an aspect of personality... a very different assertion.

/lesigh

[HopHazzard]

Berkilak wrote...

And a bisexual Kaidan would have been the same thing as a heterosexual Kaidan... if he was bisexual in the first place. He wasn't. Thus, Kaidan is heterosexual. If he wanted to make his move, he would have. To have him do so now simply to pander to forumites would be exceedingly incredulous.

If they do it, it won't be the first time they've written a romance to pander to the fans. It also probably won't be the last.

[Berkilak]

bleetman wrote...

I'll just drop this here.

leggywillow wrote...

I really don't understand these topics. How is it rewriting or retconning the character? Did Garrus and Tali get retconned in ME2, since they didn't show any romantic interest in Shepard in ME1? For pity's sake, people.

That's probably the only decent argument I've seen thus far.

That being said... Kaidan was already romancable. And he showed no interest male Shepard.