889 réponses à ce sujet

[Han Shot First]

HopHazzard wrote...

Because they liked him in ME1 and were disappointed they didn't get to romance him? You seem to be missing the point of being in the closet in the first place. The whole idea of it is to show no signs that you might bat for the other team. When a person comes out to you they're not suddenly changing their sexuality. They're just giving you information they'd been hiding from you previously.

The problem with this however, is that it essentially takes clearly defined heterosexual characters out of the game.

Everyone then becomes either declared as gay or bi, and those that did not show any inclination towards the same sex in previous games, are now 'ambiguous.'

I think Bioware should keep it simple. Any character that has not previously shown an attraction to a Shepard of the same sex, or spoken of past same sex relationships, is heterosexual. The same sex romance options should be limited to new characters or characters that are known to at least be bisexual. (most Asari, Jack)

Modifié par Han Shot First, 27 juin 2011 - 10:11 .

[GreenSoda]

VirtualStranger wrote...
OK then. This is perfectly reasonable. However, you also have to realize that in a maleShep playthrough, femShep doesn't exist. So in such a playthrough, the only girl he ever mentions is the girl from biotic camp.

...but he still shows no interest in maleshep, while in another universe where Shephard is female Kaidan is interested...

KawaiiKatie wrote...

I simply want that adressed if suddenly in ME3 Kaidan somehow is interested in maleshep.

I've
said this before, and I'll say it again... but I have faith that
Bioware will cover this plot point. Kaidan will not "suddenly" start
hitting on male Shepard with zero regard for the pre-established canon,
or his pre-established relationship with manShep. There will be some
sort of plot point or dialogue that addresses this issue. It may not
address it to your complete satisfaction, but it will be there.

If it's adressed than that would be fine. Just not another Anders-moment. That is all I'm asking. Anders didn't make any sense in DA2.

Modifié par GreenSoda, 27 juin 2011 - 10:12 .

[KawaiiKatie]

GreenSoda wrote...

If it's adressed than that would be fine. Just not another Anders-moment. That is all I'm asking. Anders didn't make any sense in DA2.

Well, see, that's just the thing. I thought that the Anders' explanation was fine. His former relationship with Karl made sense to me. So, yeah, I was satisfied with that "explanation."

So, rest assured, if Kaidan is bisexual in ME3, his sexuality will be addressed. But it might not be addressed in a way that completely satisfies you.

[Raanz]

Siansonea II wrote...
And your point is...? 

I was just trying to be helpful.  If threads like this bother you so, the thread link is a good one for discussing the issue without opposing viewpoints.

You should know by now that BSN folks will discuss everything and anything, this just happens to be one of the many "hot" topics.  In the grand scheme of things, I doubt anyone on these forums think that a resolution to this issue will generate world peace or anything.

[VirtualStranger]

GreenSoda wrote...

VirtualStranger wrote...

OK then. This is perfectly reasonable. However, you also have to realize that in a maleShep playthrough, femShep doesn't exist. So in such a playthrough, the only girl he ever mentions is the girl from biotic camp.

...but he still shows no interest in maleshep, while in another universe where Shephard is female Kaidan is interested...

He's not necessarily the same character in those aternate universes. Remember, in some universes, Kaidan was melted into paste by a nuclear bomb.

The same sex romance options should be limited to new characters or
characters that are known to at least be bisexual. (most Asari, Jack)

Just wanted to make a quick correction. Asari are omnisexual, not bisexual.

Modifié par VirtualStranger, 27 juin 2011 - 10:16 .

[Siansonea]

Raanz wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...
And your point is...? 

I was just trying to be helpful.  If threads like this bother you so, the thread link is a good one for discussing the issue without opposing viewpoints.

You should know by now that BSN folks will discuss everything and anything, this just happens to be one of the many "hot" topics.  In the grand scheme of things, I doubt anyone on these forums think that a resolution to this issue will generate world peace or anything.

OIC. Well, thank you for thinking of me. I had not seen that other thread. It looks like a great thread, and I bet the OP is a super attractive and smart person. What an excellent suggestion! 

[shepskisaac]

GreenSoda wrote...
...but he still shows no interest in maleshep, while in another universe where Shephard is female Kaidan is interested...

And he won't until Shep makes the first move. It's already part of the story that he thinks Shep is straight. So why would he make any move and hit on Shep? He makes it clear to FemShep when she reveals she likes women (in Liara scene) that he wouldn't even bother flirting with her had he knew. But if you really think he doesn't show any attraction even unintentionally then replay the Horizon scene and listen what he says to ManShep when he snaps. And as we know from ME1, he snaps when he cares for someone.

Han Shot First wrote...
Everyone then becomes either declared as gay or bi, and those that did not show any inclination towards the same sex in previous games, are now 'ambiguous.'

What are you talking about? They've already confirmed majority will not be bi/gay.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 27 juin 2011 - 10:22 .

[Maugrim]

Siansonea II wrote...

Raanz wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...
And your point is...? 

I was just trying to be helpful.  If threads like this bother you so, the thread link is a good one for discussing the issue without opposing viewpoints.

You should know by now that BSN folks will discuss everything and anything, this just happens to be one of the many "hot" topics.  In the grand scheme of things, I doubt anyone on these forums think that a resolution to this issue will generate world peace or anything.

OIC. Well, thank you for thinking of me. I had not seen that other thread. It looks like a great thread, and I bet the OP is a super attractive and smart person. What an excellent suggestion! 

Oh she is, she's awesome, too bad she's straight though I would totally retcon her so I could romance her!

Modifié par makenzieshepard, 27 juin 2011 - 10:30 .

[AngelicMachinery]

Poor Jack, one experimental threesome and everyone assumes she's bi. I'd love it of course, but, it really doesn't have to work that way...

[VirtualStranger]

Everyone then becomes either declared as gay or bi, and those that did not show any inclination towards the same sex in previous games, are now 'ambiguous.'

Everyone is ambiguous until proven otherwise.

[GreenSoda]

VirtualStranger wrote...

GreenSoda wrote...

VirtualStranger wrote...

OK then. This is perfectly reasonable. However, you also have to realize that in a maleShep playthrough, femShep doesn't exist. So in such a playthrough, the only girl he ever mentions is the girl from biotic camp.

...but he still shows no interest in maleshep, while in another universe where Shephard is female Kaidan is interested...

He's not necessarily the same character in those aternate universes. Remember, in some universes, Kaidan was melted into paste by a nuclear bomb.

If Kaidan is dead because you "virmired" him that was *your* decision. He was still the same character you just thought Ashley was more important. If Kaidan in one universe is interested in women but not in men, while in the other universe he is not interested in either...than we are talking about adaptive NPC characters, based on PC preference. I would *hate* that.

Imo your avatar is all you should be able to have power over. If the world adapts to your playstyle that just robs the player of choice in the long run. If Kaidan is bi than I'd prefer it if there was a reason for that besides "it's magic".

Modifié par GreenSoda, 27 juin 2011 - 10:27 .

[xassantex]

makenzieshepard wrote...

...
Oh she is, she's awesome, too bad she's straight though I wouldn't totally retcon her so I could romance her!

retconing is underrated. I'm all for it. 

[Estelindis]

XX55XX wrote...

Who else are they going to make bisexual?

How about not the only romanceable character for heterosexual women in ME1?  ME2 has three options for heterosexual women - if one or even two of these characters are made bi, it still leaves one or two heterosexual.

Obviously this is not to say that there's anything wrong with a romance between heterosexual and bisexual people - just that it shouldn't be the only option.  Of course, I freely admit that making all the romanceable characters (bar DLC Sebastian) bisexual worked out fairly well in DA2 (at least, I think it did), but the characters were presented and planned that way from the start and had the opportunity to show interest in the main character as part of the first narrative in which they featured.  In Mass Effect we don't have this option; we must add new bisexual characters in the last chapter of the saga and/or retcon previous characters.  Each of these approaches shortchanges the S/S fans somewhat, but I feel that the best way of balancing things out if some characters are going to be retconned is to go for ME2 characters so that we have at least one heterosexual possibility for women in each game. 

Just my two cents and it's not my intention to offend anyone.

Modifié par Estelindis, 27 juin 2011 - 10:33 .

[ReallyRue]

VirtualStranger wrote...

Everyone then becomes either declared as gay or bi, and those that did not show any inclination towards the same sex in previous games, are now 'ambiguous.'

Everyone is ambiguous until proven otherwise.

Has anyone ever been declared gay? Not bisexual. Gay. Because I seriously doubt it. Certainly they've never gone from assumed straight to 100% gay.

[Maugrim]

There is no recton. Something has to be established for there to be a retcon, this isn't rocket surgery.

Modifié par makenzieshepard, 27 juin 2011 - 10:33 .

[AngelicMachinery]

Estelindis wrote...

Obviously this is not to say that there's anything wrong with a romance between heterosexual and bisexual people - just that it shouldn't be the only option.  .

I wish this thought process wasn't so common placed,  for some reason people seem to think a bisexual individual is less appealing as a partner because they swing both ways.  I don't get the oppinion at all,  is the attraction somehow lessened?  Is the love if it occures somehow weaker?  I really,  really,  really find this idea mind boggeling.

[Han Shot First]

VirtualStranger wrote...

Everyone then becomes either declared as gay or bi, and those that did not show any inclination towards the same sex in previous games, are now 'ambiguous.'

Everyone is ambiguous until proven otherwise.

So you advocate taking heterosexual characters out of the game completely then? Everyone is either gay, bi, or a potentially closeted homosexual?

No thanks.

Bioware should keep it simple and have character's sexuality determined by whether or not they showed an interest in a Shepard of the same sex, or dated people of the same sex in the past. (like Jack)

Modifié par Han Shot First, 27 juin 2011 - 10:37 .

[shepskisaac]

makenzieshepard wrote...

There is no recton. Something has to be established for there to be a retcon, this isn't rocket surgery.

Not to mention it has to contradict and overwrite previously established fact in order to be a retcon. The only way there could be a retcon with Kaidan (or any other LI sans Liara) would be if they were made 100%, exclusively gay. Only then it would contradict their previously established attraction to opposite gender. But that won't happen, everybody knows that. Being bisexual means liking BOTH gender, means liking the opposite gender doesn't erase the attraction to the same gender and liking the same gender doesn't erase the attraction to the opposite gender. So there's no retcon, nothing. Period.

It's really simple, yet somehow people pretend they don't see it everytime it's posted or don't understand it.

Han Shot First wrote...
So you advocate taking heterosexual characters out of the game completely then? Everyone is either gay, bi,  or a potentially closeted homosexual?

No thanks.

Did you pretend not to see my post when I told you it's already confirmed "everyone's bi" will not happen?

Han Shot First wrote...
Bioware should keep it simple and have character's sexuality determined by whether or not they showed an interest in a Shepard of the same sex, or dated people of the same sex in the past. (like Jack)

So we have to retcon Tali and Garrus then, since in ME1 they didn't show any attraction to Shepard.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 27 juin 2011 - 10:40 .

[Ryzaki]

Han Shot First wrote...

VirtualStranger wrote...

Everyone then becomes either declared as gay or bi, and those that did not show any inclination towards the same sex in previous games, are now 'ambiguous.'

Everyone is ambiguous until proven otherwise.

So you advocate taking heterosexual characters out of the game completely then? Everyone is either gay, bi, or a potentially closeted homosexual?

No thanks.

Bioware should keep it simple and have character's sexuality determined by whether or not they showed an interest in a Shepard of the same sex, or dated people of the same sex in the past. (like Jack)

 

Oh for the love of ra. 

Stop being overdramatic. 

Suggesting that one character's sexuality might not be as set in stone as you think isn't saying all heterosexuals shouldn't be in game. 

[Estelindis]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

 for some reason people seem to think a bisexual individual is less appealing as a partner because they swing both ways.  I don't get the oppinion at all,  is the attraction somehow lessened?  Is the love if it occures somehow weaker?  I really,  really,  really find this idea mind boggeling.

That's not what I'm saying.  I'm saying that we should have variety and choice.

Of course, any given choice always depends on how many dev resources are dedicated towards that aspect of the game.  Personally, I always liked the idea of having distinct gay, bi, and straight romances, but I accept that limited resources tend towards lumping all LIs together with bisexual characters filling all shoes.  From a certain point of view, making everyone bi pleases everyone because it means that no particular romance is off limits for anyone, but I just don't find it very realistic.

[VirtualStranger]

Han Shot First wrote...

VirtualStranger wrote...

Everyone then becomes either declared as gay or bi, and those that did not show any inclination towards the same sex in previous games, are now 'ambiguous.'

Everyone is ambiguous until proven otherwise.

So you advocate taking heterosexual characters out of the game completely then? Everyone is either gay, bi, or a potentially closeted homosexual?

No thanks.

Where the hell did I say that? Do you not understand what the word "ambiguous" means? I was just making a statement that, just like real life, everyone's sexuality is "to be determined" until they say otherwise. And even then, they can still change and reevaluate themselves. Why do you assume that heterosexuality is the default state?

Modifié par VirtualStranger, 27 juin 2011 - 10:49 .

[Maugrim]

Estelindis wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

 for some reason people seem to think a bisexual individual is less appealing as a partner because they swing both ways.  I don't get the oppinion at all,  is the attraction somehow lessened?  Is the love if it occures somehow weaker?  I really,  really,  really find this idea mind boggeling.

That's not what I'm saying.  I'm saying that we should have variety and choice.

Of course, any given choice always depends on how many dev resources are dedicated towards that aspect of the game.  Personally, I always liked the idea of having distinct gay, bi, and straight romances, but I accept that limited resources tend towards lumping all LIs together with bisexual characters filling all shoes.  From a certain point of view, making everyone bi pleases everyone because it means that no particular romance is off limits for anyone, but I just don't find it very realistic.

Nice Gaider quote in the sig, though this one is my personal favorite:

David Gaider wrote...


Romances are never one-size-fits-all, and even for those who don't mind the sexuality issue there's no guarantee they'll find a character they even want to romance. That's why romances are optional content. It's such a personal issue that we'll never be able to please everyone. The very best we can do is give everyone a little bit of choice, and that's what we tried here.

And the person who says that the only way to please them is to restrict options for others is, if you ask me, the one who deserves it least. And that's my opinion, expressed as politely as possible.

Kinda hard to fit into a sig though!

[Twilight_Princess]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Estelindis wrote...

Obviously this is not to say that there's anything wrong with a romance between heterosexual and bisexual people - just that it shouldn't be the only option.  .

I wish this thought process wasn't so common placed,  for some reason people seem to think a bisexual individual is less appealing as a partner because they swing both ways.  I don't get the oppinion at all,  is the attraction somehow lessened?  Is the love if it occures somehow weaker?  I really,  really,  really find this idea mind boggeling.

Some people like to be with people that are  like themselves, for some hets that's means they prefer being with other hets . That's not a bad thing its just a preference , it doesn't mean they think less of bisexuals but for them they relate better to other hets . Kind of like how for some athiests they wouldn't want to be in relationship with someone who was religious, or a vegan with a meat eater. They aren't "bad" people for wanting a partner with similar mind sets I guess. That can be anything from sexuality to politics, it just depends on what they consider important.

[Estelindis]

makenzieshepard wrote...

Nice Gaider quote in the sig, though this one is my personal favorite:

David Gaider wrote...


Romances are never one-size-fits-all, and even for those who don't mind the sexuality issue there's no guarantee they'll find a character they even want to romance. That's why romances are optional content. It's such a personal issue that we'll never be able to please everyone. The very best we can do is give everyone a little bit of choice, and that's what we tried here.

And the person who says that the only way to please them is to restrict options for others is, if you ask me, the one who deserves it least. And that's my opinion, expressed as politely as possible.

Kinda hard to fit into a sig though!

I did say that I think the all-bi romances in DA2 worked very well. I have read most of what Mr. Gaider has to say on the topic and I think he made the right call in DA2.  But in this case, with Mass Effect, we're not looking at fresh characters; we're looking at retconning. I don't think we should retcon every single character; would it really be realistic for a whole rakeload of characters who previously showed no sexial interest in Shep to suddenly all do so at the same time? Some work better than others, in my opinion, and those are the ones who should be chosen.  For example, I think Tali and Jack lend themselves more easily to S/S than Miranda or Ashley. There's nothing in particular about Kaidan than makes me think the retcon would work well for him.  Honestly, of the men, I think Garrus would work best.  He seems to be the most Shepsexual of the whole crew in any game.

On the sig space front, one could always link to the quote if you want more people to see it...

Modifié par Estelindis, 27 juin 2011 - 11:05 .

[Ryzaki]

To be honest and non bias the easiest male to make s/s is Garrus. He's not really attracted to FemShep. He's with her because she's Shepard. Not because he has some human fetish. Him doing the same to male Shepard wouldn't even be a stretch. Not to mention he doesn't even see her that way until *she* brings it up, another way for him to easily slip into it. Dude Shep never mentions it, so he never thought about it.