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[Han Shot First]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...
Otherwise they are ambiguous.

Yes.

Sorry, but I don't think Bioware should pander to a vocal minority that wants to take clearly defined heterosexual characters out of the game, and instead of have everyone who isn't clearly bi or gay, be ambiguous.

Being ambigious doesn't make you bi or gay dear,  though, it does leave the door open to the possibility.  As it's already been confirmed that TEH GAIS aren't going to take up the majority of the crew though your entire argument is based on false logic.

No it doesn't.

But being ambiguous doesn't necessarily make someone heterosexual either, which is my point. If there are going to be characters with a clearly defined gay or bi sexuality, there should be clearly defined heterosexuals as well.

[AngelicMachinery]

Han Shot First wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...
Otherwise they are ambiguous.

Yes.

Sorry, but I don't think Bioware should pander to a vocal minority that wants to take clearly defined heterosexual characters out of the game, and instead of have everyone who isn't clearly bi or gay, be ambiguous.

Being ambigious doesn't make you bi or gay dear,  though, it does leave the door open to the possibility.  As it's already been confirmed that TEH GAIS aren't going to take up the majority of the crew though your entire argument is based on false logic.

No it doesn't.

But being ambiguous doesn't necessarily make someone heterosexual either, which is my point. If there are going to be characters with a clearly defined gay or bi sexuality, there should be clearly defined heterosexuals as well.

Which of course there will be when the bisexual characters are revealed,  because after this installment no one will suddenly have a sexual awakening.  It's kind of an odd argument though,  it almost seems as if you fear heterosexual's to be the minority when we're already sure this is NOT the case.

And yes it does,  that's part of being ambigious.

Modifié par AngelicMachinery, 28 juin 2011 - 12:04 .

[Estelindis]

AngelicMachinery wrote...
it's already been confirmed that TEH GAIS aren't going to take up the majority of the crew though your entire argument is based on false logic.

As this keeps on being mentioned, I feel I should clarify that I realise this isn't going to happened whenever I make my posts about it being unrealistic for all heterosexual characters to be retconned as bi.  My original post was just pointing out that if one retcons Kaidan as bi, then 100% of ME1's heterosexual romance possibility for FemShep becomes bi.  So, if one is going to retcon some characters but not others, ME2's romances seem like a better candidate.  If one chooses to go with Garrus, one even has the added benefit of him being an ME1 character too (albeit not romanceable in that game).

[VegasVance]

Han Shot First wrote...
No it doesn't.

But being ambiguous doesn't necessarily make someone heterosexual either, which is my point. If there are going to be characters with a clearly defined gay or bi sexuality, there should be clearly defined heterosexuals as well.

I'm guessing my Shep is straight, he can't stop hitting on women, just ask Khalisah al-Jilani. 

[Mr.House]

VegasVance wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...
No it doesn't.

But being ambiguous doesn't necessarily make someone heterosexual either, which is my point. If there are going to be characters with a clearly defined gay or bi sexuality, there should be clearly defined heterosexuals as well.

I'm guessing my Shep is straight, he can't stop hitting on women, just ask Khalisah al-Jilani. 

Nah, he's secretly gay.

[AngelicMachinery]

Estelindis wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...
it's already been confirmed that TEH GAIS aren't going to take up the majority of the crew though your entire argument is based on false logic.

As this keeps on being mentioned, I feel I should clarify that I realise this isn't going to happened whenever I make my posts about it being unrealistic for all heterosexual characters to be retconned as bi.  My original post was just pointing out that if one retcons Kaidan as bi, then 100% of ME1's heterosexual romance possibility for FemShep becomes bi.  So, if one is going to retcon some characters but not others, ME2's romances seem like a better candidate.  If one chooses to go with Garrus, one even has the added benefit of him being an ME1 character too (albeit not romanceable in that game).

And once again I'm not sure how this takes away from Kaidan's character,  unless your scared he's going to leave you for the prize?

[shepskisaac]

Han Shot First wrote...
Sorry, but I don't think Bioware should pander to a vocal minority that wants to take clearly defined heterosexual characters out of the game, and instead of have everyone who isn't clearly bi or gay, be ambiguous.

When you can point us to a line when they state they're heterosexual, or don't like same-gender, then we'll talk about clearly defined heterosexual characters.

Estelindis wrote...
As this keeps on being mentioned, I feel I should clarify that I realise this isn't going to happened whenever I make my posts about it being unrealistic for all heterosexual characters to be retconned as bi.  My original post was just pointing out that if one retcons Kaidan as bi, then 100% of ME1's heterosexual romance possibility for FemShep becomes bi.  So, if one is going to retcon some characters but not others, ME2's romances seem like a better candidate. If one chooses to go with Garrus, one even has the added benefit of him being an ME1 character too (albeit not romanceable in that game).

What is this retconing you're talking about? In order for something to be retconned it would have to be established first. Furthermore, retcons CONTRADICT and REWRITE previously established facts. Kaidan being bisexual does not contradict, nor rewrites ANYTHING we know so far about him.

Finally. We would've known about Kaidan's bisexuality since ME1 if it wasn't for time constraints that caused BW to cut his s/s romance. So really all it is about is that it will be confirmed later then it was suppoused to be.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 28 juin 2011 - 12:13 .

[xassantex]

Mr.House wrote...

VegasVance wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...
No it doesn't.

But being ambiguous doesn't necessarily make someone heterosexual either, which is my point. If there are going to be characters with a clearly defined gay or bi sexuality, there should be clearly defined heterosexuals as well.

I'm guessing my Shep is straight, he can't stop hitting on women, just ask Khalisah al-Jilani. 

Nah, he's secretly gay.

just watch how he dances at Flux... if you have any doubts after, you've obvioulsy never gone clubbing ! <_<

[jlb524]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

That is actually quite close to the ratio of couples IRL. Although m/m is stilll under-represented.

If you want to bring real life demographics into it, then there should be some strictly gay options (and there aren't and there never will be).

[Maugrim]

Kaidan's gonna be bisexual, 99.999% chance at this point, proof here. People need to man/woman up and deal with it.

[VegasVance]

Mr.House wrote...
Nah, he's secretly gay.

Well Mordin did catch on to me swinging by his workshop on all those late night so maybe...

Also can Mordin and I adopt Grunty-runty as our son?


Edit: Makenzie Sheaperd you meant Man/Man/Woman up with it correct?

Modifié par VegasVance, 28 juin 2011 - 12:14 .

[Estelindis]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

And once again I'm not sure how this takes away from Kaidan's character,  unless your scared he's going to leave you for the prize?

It's not about taking away from Kaidan's character.  (Even ignoring the fact that many traumatic viewings of Jacob's romance on YouTube still leave me mystified as to what exactly the prize is!  If it's FemShep, then Kaidan surely has her already, right?  If it's something else, Jacob's lines make even less sense than I thought.)  I'm not saying it would take away from his character at all (if anything, wouldn't it add to it?), just that retconning this aspect of his sexuality would have exactly the kind of sweeping effect on the romances for women in ME1 that we've already been assured the dev team aren't going to make (namely, retconning all heterosexual romances to be bi).  That's as well as I can explain myself, and I already fear I'm being repetitive.  I'm not saying what you seem to think I'm saying, but I doubt I'll be able to explain it any better than that if you don't see my point of view by now.  If you wish to think me limited and bigoted, I can't stop you.

[M8DMAN]

Mr.House wrote...

VegasVance wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...
No it doesn't.

But being ambiguous doesn't necessarily make someone heterosexual either, which is my point. If there are going to be characters with a clearly defined gay or bi sexuality, there should be clearly defined heterosexuals as well.

I'm guessing my Shep is straight, he can't stop hitting on women, just ask Khalisah al-Jilani. 

Nah, he's secretly gay.

My Shepard is secretly three ducks in a man costume.

Modifié par M8DMAN, 28 juin 2011 - 12:16 .

[Maugrim]

mrsph wrote...

makenzieshepard wrote...

Kaidan's gonna be bisexual, 99.999% chance at this point, proof here. People need to man/woman up and deal with it.

I wouldn't jump to conclusions yet.

I'm sure everyone will be doing this till the games comes out, I'd rub it in then but I'll be too busy havin fun while they are crying on the forums.

[Han Shot First]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...
Otherwise they are ambiguous.

Yes.

Sorry, but I don't think Bioware should pander to a vocal minority that wants to take clearly defined heterosexual characters out of the game, and instead of have everyone who isn't clearly bi or gay, be ambiguous.

Being ambigious doesn't make you bi or gay dear,  though, it does leave the door open to the possibility.  As it's already been confirmed that TEH GAIS aren't going to take up the majority of the crew though your entire argument is based on false logic.

No it doesn't.

But being ambiguous doesn't necessarily make someone heterosexual either, which is my point. If there are going to be characters with a clearly defined gay or bi sexuality, there should be clearly defined heterosexuals as well.

Which of course there will be when the bisexual characters are revealed,  because after this installment no one will suddenly have a sexual awakening.  It's kind of an odd argument though,  it almost seems as if you fear heterosexual's to be the minority when we're already sure this is NOT the case.

And yes it does,  that's part of being ambigious.

I'm aware that in real life there are gay or bisexual people who are in the closet, in one form or another.

But I don't think Bioware should introduce that to the game. You then create a scenario where no character is clearly defined as heterosexual, and every character is open for speculation on whether they really are heterosexual, or closted bisexuals or homosexuals.

A better solution would just to be have a character's sexuality defined by whether or not they've shown a romantic interest in Shepard before, and whether or not they've dated or showed romantic interest in someone of the same sex in the past. Jack for example, tells you in ME2 that she has been with at least one woman, even if she isn't a romantic option for FemShep in that game. She'd be an obvious choice to bring back as a same sex LI for FemShep. I'm not aware of any male characters that have a similar backstory, but that is where new characters come in. You simply make one of the new male party members a gay or bi romance option.

IsaacShep wrote..

Han Shot First wrote...

Sorry, but I don't think Bioware should pander to a vocal minority that wants to take clearly defined heterosexual characters out of the game, and instead of have everyone who isn't clearly bi or gay, be ambiguous.

When you can point us to a line when they state they're heterosexual, or don't like same-gender, then we'll talk about clearly defined heterosexual characters.

The problem with having characters only be heterosexual if they openly declare themselves as such, if that by default it removes heterosexuals from the game. No character is going to have dialogue where they say, "Shepard I know we've got a lot on our plate with this Reaper business, but did I mention I'm heterosexual? Ok, now that that is out of the way, back to work!"

Modifié par Han Shot First, 28 juin 2011 - 12:23 .

[jlb524]

Han Shot First wrote...

A better solution would just to be have a character's sexuality defined by whether or not they've shown a romantic interest in Shepard before, and whether or not they've dated or showed romantic interest in someone of the same sex in the past.

Tali and Garrus would like to have a word with you.

[Twilight_Princess]

Time4Tiddy wrote...

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

Aviena wrote...

You would think that if you were willing to look past the fact that your partner is another SPECIES, their being the same gender wouldn't really faze you. :S

No.

Barring a few differences like number of toes or skin color:
Asari look like women.  Tali looks like a woman in a suit.  There is no stretch here to say that a man wouldn't find them attractive or that they wouldn't count as same sex for a femShep.

Thane looks like a man, right down to having pecs.  Again, no stretch to say that a woman wouldn't find him attractive or that he wouldn't be same sex if it's manShep.

Garrus on the other hand, has no gender identifying characteristics other than his voice.  Same with Wrex.  They don't have masculine bodies, if anything they have bodies that seem free of gender.  Their women look basically the same as their men. 

You want to say that Garrus must be straight because he "knows" Shep is a female, but for all we know female Turians lay eggs and there is no "sex" beyond rubbing bodies (working of stress through wrestling) for purely tactile sensation.  He probably could care less that she has breasts and a vajayjay when females of his species have neither.

 
Ok Tali and thane look  like female/male humans to US but why do you think they don't see a really weird species standing in front of them when they talk to shep? You're looking at them from a human perspective instead of imaging what THEY see when they look at humans, thane himself he has never fallen for another species before there is no reason to think he sees something similar to what garrus sees when he looks at femshep.  And you ALSO don't know what quarian and drell autonomy is like under there either. At the moment we don't have a complete idea how much each species is compatible to humans biologically so there's no reason to NOT think turians have similar bits to humans and that maybe drell lay eggs 

Modifié par Hyrule_Gal, 28 juin 2011 - 04:05 .

[AngelicMachinery]

Estelindis wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

And once again I'm not sure how this takes away from Kaidan's character,  unless your scared he's going to leave you for the prize?

It's not about taking away from Kaidan's character.  (Even ignoring the fact that many traumatic viewings of Jacob's romance on YouTube still leave me mystified as to what exactly the prize is!  If it's FemShep, then Kaidan surely has her already, right?  If it's something else, Jacob's lines make even less sense than I thought.)  I'm not saying it would take away from his character at all (if anything, wouldn't it add to it?), just that retconning this aspect of his sexuality would have exactly the kind of sweeping effect on the romances for women in ME1 that we've already been assured the dev team aren't going to make (namely, retconning all heterosexual romances to be bi).  That's as well as I can explain myself, and I already fear I'm being repetitive.  I'm not saying what you seem to think I'm saying, but I doubt I'll be able to explain it any better than that if you don't see my point of view by now.  If you wish to think me limited and bigoted, I can't stop you.

Retconning Kaidan to swing both ways doesn't Retcon Thane, Jacob,  or Garrus...  Just Kaidan.  So I'm still not understanding your argument.  I think there may be a communication break down more than likely on my part.  I understand it has a sweeping affect on Kaidan's sexuality but not on all character's sexuality as a whole.

[shepskisaac]

Han Shot First wrote...
You then create a scenario where no character is clearly defined as heterosexual, and every character is open for speculation on whether they really are heterosexual, or closted bisexuals or homosexuals.

Well, duh kinda realistic since that's how it works in real-life. The same way people speculate about all the characters (Chakwas, Joker) having crush on Shep.

Han Shot First wrote...
A better solution would just to be have a character's sexuality defined by whether or not they've shown a romantic interest in Shepard before, and whether or not they've dated or showed romantic interest in someone of the same sex in the past.

Which is not like things often work IRL, especially with bisexual people. ME franchise may be a fantasy, but the relations between the characters are suppoused to be realistic, thus mirror real life. In real life, proclamation of interest in one gender does not rule out the possibility a person may also like the other gender. Simple.

[Bocks]

Ryzaki wrote...

To be honest and non bias the easiest male to make s/s is Garrus. He's not really attracted to FemShep. He's with her because she's Shepard. Not because he has some human fetish. Him doing the same to male Shepard wouldn't even be a stretch. Not to mention he doesn't even see her that way until *she* brings it up, another way for him to easily slip into it. Dude Shep never mentions it, so he never thought about it.

I know I'm replying to a relatively old post but you're going to be making a lot of enemies if Garrus turns out to be gay.

[Han Shot First]

jlb524 wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

A better solution would just to be have a character's sexuality defined by whether or not they've shown a romantic interest in Shepard before, and whether or not they've dated or showed romantic interest in someone of the same sex in the past.

Tali and Garrus would like to have a word with you.

I was against either one becoming a romantic interest for Shepard, particularly Garrus. As a human he should find Shep physically unattractive.

But we've already passed the point of no return on that one.

Which is not like things often work IRL, especially with bisexual people. ME franchise may be a fantasy, but the relations between the characters are suppoused to be realistic, thus mirror real life. In real life, proclamation of interest in one gender does not rule out the possibility a person may also like the other gender. Simple.

I'm ok with there being some S/S romance options, but some opeople (yourself included), seem more interested in making every character either declared as gay or bi, or potentially bi or gay.

Call me crazy, but as a heterosexual I'd like there to still be some heterosexual characters alive in ME3.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 28 juin 2011 - 12:28 .