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Why are people gunning for a Kaidan same-sex romance so much?


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#601
Ryzaki

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Hyrule_Gal wrote...
Right humans , so why can't that be comparable to a man saying they don't like fat/thin/tall/whatever women AT ALL but then if he does sleep with a fat/thin/tall/whatever  woman does that  mean they might as well have been the other sex because that unattractiveness overrides their sexual preference? There is nothing to support garrus would shrug at a male human either so again why isn’t this just likely a possibility? And since he did romance femshep over manshep (and can tell the genders apart I'm sure) then we could say sex alone was the only deciding factor so it COULD be important.
 
And for the krogan question... unlike turians they aren't compatible with humans so I'm pretty sure both sexes of krogan would kill me Image IPB. BUT if it were a harmless candlight date on tuchunka (LOL) I would go for the dude without question, hopefully wrex, he's awesome.


Because a fat woman is still..wait for it...a WOMAN! She's not something else! She's not another species! 

He didn't romance femshep over manshep actually femshep is the only one who asked. So...yeah. 

Also how do you know Krogan aren't compatiable with humans? You do realize turians aren't really compatiable either thus the whole "don't ingest." warning? :huh:

Modifié par Ryzaki, 28 juin 2011 - 12:26 .


#602
xassantex

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makenzieshepard wrote...

...
I'm sure everyone will be doing this till the game (s) comes out, I'd rub it in then but I'll be too busy havin fun while they are crying on the forums.


*chuckles* @ pun

#603
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Ryzaki wrote...

Hyrule_Gal wrote...
Right humans , so why can't that be comparable to a man saying they don't like fat/thin/tall/whatever women AT ALL but then if he does sleep with a fat/thin/tall/whatever  woman does that  mean they might as well have been the other sex because that unattractiveness overrides their sexual preference? There is nothing to support garrus would shrug at a male human either so again why isn’t this just likely a possibility? And since he did romance femshep over manshep (and can tell the genders apart I'm sure) then we could say sex alone was the only deciding factor so it COULD be important.
 
And for the krogan question... unlike turians they aren't compatible with humans so I'm pretty sure both sexes of krogan would kill me Image IPB. BUT if it were a harmless candlight date on tuchunka (LOL) I would go for the dude without question, hopefully wrex, he's awesome.


Because a fat woman is still..wait for it...a WOMAN! She's not something else! She's not another species! 

He didn't romance femshep over manshep actually femshep is the only one who asked. So...yeah. 

Also how do you know Krogan aren't compatiable with humans? You do realize turians aren't really compatiable either thus the whole "don't ingest." warning? :huh:


Turian women. Shepard is a women, although a human women.

#604
Ryzaki

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Bocks wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

To be honest and non bias the easiest male to make s/s is Garrus. He's not really attracted to FemShep. He's with her because she's Shepard. Not because he has some human fetish. Him doing the same to male Shepard wouldn't even be a stretch. Not to mention he doesn't even see her that way until *she* brings it up, another way for him to easily slip into it. Dude Shep never mentions it, so he never thought about it.


I know I'm replying to a relatively old post but you're going to be making a lot of enemies if Garrus turns out to be gay.


If they're too stupid to realize the different between a xenophile and a gay person then I really don't care about them being enemies. 

#605
Ryzaki

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The Big Bad Wolf wrote...
 
Turian women. Shepard is a women, although a human women.


NO. Turian female. Woman = female HUMAN. 
They aren't thesame species. They do not look similar. It's not even in the same ballpark. 

Not to be snide but do you realize the differences between species? If I kiss a fat woman I don't have to worry about her saliva killing me. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 28 juin 2011 - 12:30 .


#606
AngelicMachinery

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Ryzaki wrote...

Bocks wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

To be honest and non bias the easiest male to make s/s is Garrus. He's not really attracted to FemShep. He's with her because she's Shepard. Not because he has some human fetish. Him doing the same to male Shepard wouldn't even be a stretch. Not to mention he doesn't even see her that way until *she* brings it up, another way for him to easily slip into it. Dude Shep never mentions it, so he never thought about it.


I know I'm replying to a relatively old post but you're going to be making a lot of enemies if Garrus turns out to be gay.


If they're too stupid to realize the different between a xenophile and a gay person then I really don't care about them being enemies. 


Eh a Xenophile seems pretty "queer" to me.

#607
Time4Tiddy

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Bocks wrote...
I know I'm replying to a relatively old post but you're going to be making a lot of enemies if Garrus turns out to be gay.


We've been through this before.  Absolutely no one in ME3 will be gay.  NOT ONE CHARACTER.  Garrus is not going to suddenly start hitting on male Turians and talking about his same sex lover from his last crew.  If anything, there will be exactly one conversation trigger that will allow him to become attracted to manShep (not every man in the universe), and it will be easily avoidable.

You know, I just have to say, with all the straight men who are so obsessed with how they will "accidentally" end up romancing a male...  What happens to you in real life?  If you sense a guy coming on to you, do you accidentally sleep with him and then later get all pissed off about how you were "railroaded"? 

There is a word for this - denial!

Modifié par Time4Tiddy, 28 juin 2011 - 12:33 .


#608
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Ryzaki wrote...

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...
 
Turian women. Shepard is a women, although a human women.


NO. Turian female. Woman = female HUMAN. 
They aren't thesame species. They do not look similar. It's not even in the same ballpark. 

Not to be snide but do you realize the differences between species? If I kiss a fat woman I don't have to worry about her saliva killing me. 


Yes I do know. But maybe Garrus isn't into penis? It would definitely go with the "do not ingest part."

#609
shepskisaac

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Time4Tiddy wrote...
You know, I just have to say, with all the straight men who are so obsessed with how they will "accidentally" end up romancing a male...  What happens to you in real life?  If you sense a guy coming on to you, do you accidentally sleep with him and then later get all pissed off about how you were "railroaded"?  ****, please!

Emphasis on Image IPBaccidentallyImage IPB

#610
Ryzaki

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The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...
 
Turian women. Shepard is a women, although a human women.


NO. Turian female. Woman = female HUMAN. 
They aren't thesame species. They do not look similar. It's not even in the same ballpark. 

Not to be snide but do you realize the differences between species? If I kiss a fat woman I don't have to worry about her saliva killing me. 


Yes I do know. But maybe Garrus isn't into penis? It would definitely go with the "do not ingest part."


We don't even know if Garrus has anything similar a penis. For all we know it's interesting to him just like a female vagina would be. Or maybe they both repulse him or maybe he'd prefer one or th other. 

I don't know.

#611
Estelindis

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IsaacShep wrote...

What is this retconing you're talking about? In order for something to be retconned it would have to be established first. Furthermore, retcons CONTRADICT and REWRITE previously established facts. Kaidan being bisexual does not contradict, nor rewrites ANYTHING we know so far about him.

Any given LI for Shepard, including Kaidan, goes through a romantic arc where the character grows closer to Shepard over time, such that, in spite of some obstacles that exist between them, the character expresses attraction towards Shepard and the hope that things will progress further.  Sometimes Shepard does not reciprocate and the obstacle could not be overcome, but the character tries anyway and then respects Shepard's choice.  One would surmise that possible uncertainty as to whether a Shepard of the same sex as the LI in question would reciprocate said character's affections would be an obstacle to be overcome like any other (e.g. fraternisation, interspecies awkwardness, painful loss of a past love, personal insecurities, etc.), leading to the question: if the LI had feelings like those for Shepard, why didn't he or she voice them?  The fact that she or he did not isn't proof that said character is not bisexual.  However, in the absence of other evidence, it would tend to incline one towards that conclusion. 

I'm not saying this in some misguided attempt to upset you, nor do I feel I have an ironclad case (I neither need or want one, since the matter in question is not supremely important to me).  I'm just pointing out that if any given one of the existing non-asari LIs already had strong romantic feelings for a Shepard of the same sex, I expect that they would have revealed their feelings at the same time that they are known to do so in the case of opposite-sex Shepard.  Whether heterosexual or bisexual (I leave out homosexual since it's not an option for existing ME1 and 2 LIs), they are, after all, the same character with the same personalty.  (DA2 shows how well a LI's personality can come across regardless of sexual orientation, doesn't it?)   So why wouldn't they have spoken out about their feelings?  To imagine that they wouldn't does actually retcon certain things about them, for instance their sense of what's important as they journey towards a life-or-death battle with titanic forces bent on the destruction of galactic civilization. 

But, as I have said before, we can eliminate the sense of contradiction in "retcon" if we limit it to one or two characters and give reasons why they would hesitate before a Shepard of the same sex or somehow not fully realise feelings that, in the case of opposite-sex Shepard, were very clear.  It's just that finding reasons for all of them to do this that would not, in my opinion, serve the game's overall sense of consistency very well.  Consider: if one is bringing a LI forward from ME1 or 2, one has already made one's choice and isn't beseiged by four characters at once.  By contrast, the homosexual or bisexual Shepard will not have been able to commit to any (non-asari) lovers of the same sex during past games, and so if we want him or her to be able to choose among them all then all these characters will have to go through a replicated character development arc where each becomes able to voice feelings to Shepard that he or she was unable to voice before.  Having four characters in a row do that, I fear, would make the last one or two of these farcical instead of touching.  Again, though, that's just my taste when it comes to this matter.  Perhaps no one else here would feel the same way (though I did note someone agreeing with me on this earlier).

Of course, if we look for a way to surmount this difficulty, we come up with the idea of making Shepard be the one who makes romantic advances.  In this case, there will be no sense of comical, increasingly undramatic replication of character arc, since Shepard can just choose the person he or she cares for and ask them about it; no other LI need be approached.  That being the case, there's still something to be said of the romantically attractive idea of being pursued rather than the pursuer (some people prefer one, some the other), so perhaps one S/S LI could be designated as the one who makes the move on Shepard, but the others won't.  This dynamic can even be seen in existing romances, where Garrus will not try to initiate things with Shepard; she has to take the step of asking him.  Indeed, if Garrus was written as bi in ME3, I think this would still be the case; I actually find Jacob or Kaidan more likely candidates for approaching Shep, if we were going to have one of them do it.  I suppose all this is academic, since we've already heard that not all ME1 and ME2 LIs will be shown as bi in ME3, but it's still interesting to ask how it might best be done if the devs were to decide to do it.

Modifié par Estelindis, 28 juin 2011 - 12:55 .


#612
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Ryzaki wrote...

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

Yes I do know. But maybe Garrus isn't into penis? It would definitely go with the "do not ingest part."


We don't even know if Garrus has anything similar a penis. For all we know it's interesting to him just like a female vagina would be. Or maybe they both repulse him or maybe he'd prefer one or th other. 

I don't know.


He makes a joke about popping the heatsink. I think that pretty much implies that he has a penis.

#613
Eromenos

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Berkilak wrote...

 Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against homosexuality, but he's shown no signs of "batting for the other team," so to speak, so far. And it would be quite odd to have him changing teams all of a sudden. Remember how weird it was when Anders came onto you out of the blue?

It would just feel incredibily forced if he were to "come out" at this point.


Oh. You're criticizing something that you claim to be fine with. But it's ok so long as you attach a disclaimer. I'm good with it. Just keep all that **** away from me. Right?

How is it you "have nothing against homosexuality" then?

The nicest answer to your question, if it was a real question, would be that BioWare was wrong for restricting both human LIs to opposite-sex Shepards in the first place. There is nothing "established" that would claim they go only 1-way. If Kaidan and Ashley are (rightfully) bisexual in ME3 I can imagine a ton of methods for them to address the lack of S/S romance in ME1 without retconning a single thing. They could do it in a way specifically for queer gamers so that it won't have to serve as some tired "very special introductory PSA" about queerness meant for straight gamers.

Modifié par Eromenos, 28 juin 2011 - 12:43 .


#614
Ryzaki

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The Big Bad Wolf wrote...
He makes a joke about popping the heatsink. I think that pretty much implies that he has a penis.


Uh...no it really doesn't. It implies he made a innocent metaphor that femshep took as a dirty joke. That's why he goes all "oh god that just went somewhere horrible." And his species look based off dinosaurs. Or birds. Whatever. 

I'd be disappoint if he reproduced in a similar fashion. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 28 juin 2011 - 12:42 .


#615
Time4Tiddy

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Arguments aside, I have to give props to Estelindis and IsaacShep for at least sticking to the actual topic of this thread, and shame on everyone else (including myself) who turned into the same basic tired gay bashing/gay defending thread. Note this thread is about why Kaidan should or shouldn't be gay, not about Garrus or Tali.

#616
Twilight_Princess

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Ryzaki wrote...

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...
 
Turian women. Shepard is a women, although a human women.


NO. Turian female. Woman = female HUMAN. 
They aren't thesame species. They do not look similar. It's not even in the same ballpark.



They don't look similar? Then it could just be an appearance issue , like finding someone ugly. Why is it so hard to believe Male turians could see some similarities between human and turian females?  Garrus sounds male, has male mannerisms, and at the moment you don't know if turians are biologically similar to humans . You just assumed they aren't. I believe mordins vids hold the answers Image IPB but we at least know they are compatible enough otherwise mordin wouldn't have given you the go ahead. All he did was warn shep of  a possible risk, no different than humans advising eachother to use protection .

#617
Ryzaki

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Hyrule_Gal wrote...
They don't look similar? Then it could just be an appearance issue , like finding someone ugly. Why is it so hard to believe Male turians could see some similarities between human and turian females?  Garrus sounds male, has male mannerisms, and at the moment you don't know if turians are biologically similar to humans . You just assumed they aren't. I believe mordins vids hold the answers Image IPB but we at least know they are compatible enough otherwise mordin wouldn't have given you the go ahead. All he did was warn shep of  a possible risk, no different than humans advising eachother to use protection .

 

...This is going in circles. At this point. *shrugs*

And obviously Krogan are compatible wth humans enough as well since they're compatiable with Asari. But yeah this arguement is giving me a headache. Enjoy. 

#618
Twilight_Princess

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Ryzaki wrote...

Hyrule_Gal wrote...
They don't look similar? Then it could just be an appearance issue , like finding someone ugly. Why is it so hard to believe Male turians could see some similarities between human and turian females?  Garrus sounds male, has male mannerisms, and at the moment you don't know if turians are biologically similar to humans . You just assumed they aren't. I believe mordins vids hold the answers Image IPB but we at least know they are compatible enough otherwise mordin wouldn't have given you the go ahead. All he did was warn shep of  a possible risk, no different than humans advising eachother to use protection .

 

...This is going in circles. At this point. *shrugs*

And obviously Krogan are compatible wth humans enough as well since they're compatiable with Asari. But yeah this arguement is giving me a headache. Enjoy. 


 Implied Mind sex, asari are compatible with everyone from hanar to elcor. And there have been no krogan/human romances or mention of them so that remains up in the air.

#619
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Time4Tiddy wrote...

Arguments aside, I have to give props to Estelindis and IsaacShep for at least sticking to the actual topic of this thread, and shame on everyone else (including myself) who turned into the same basic tired gay bashing/gay defending thread. Note this thread is about why Kaidan should or shouldn't be gay, not about Garrus or Tali.


Yeah, we should get back to Kaidan.

Even though I don't see any gay bashing, so I don't know where you're coming from with that.

#620
shepskisaac

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Estelindis wrote...
So why wouldn't they have spoken out about their feelings?

I've already said it multiple times in this thread. Kaidan already has a reason why he didn't tell anything to Shepard. He thinks Shepoard is straight. It's already part of the story, nothing needs to be added. And when he admits to FemShep that he didn't realize she wasn't straight (triangle scene with FemShep/Kaidan/Liara) he also makes it clear he wouldn't bother flirting/pursuing FemShep in the first place had he knew. He assumes the same thing about ManShep and FemShep, that Shep is straight. But with the gender difference, it's only FemShep that he thinks he has a chance with since a straight woman likes men. Straight ManShep (in his assumption) doesn't like men. Nothing needs to be added, they don't need to come up with any explanation, the explanation is already there in the very first game of the franchise - ME1.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 28 juin 2011 - 12:48 .


#621
Estelindis

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IsaacShep wrote...

when he admits to FemShep that he didn't realize she wasn't straight (triangle scene with FemShep/Kaidan/Liara) he also makes it clear he wouldn't bother flirting/pursuing FemShep in the first place had he knew

I can only apologise for not reading the whole thread.  You raise an excellent point - it does seem from this scene that Kaidan took Shepard to be heterosexual by default.  Well-spotted.

(And apologies for this edit; I accidentally erased what I wrote before when going to copy-paste the quote for a later post, but this is the general gist of what I said when I originally wrote this post.)

Modifié par Estelindis, 28 juin 2011 - 01:11 .


#622
Han Shot First

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We've been through this before.  Absolutely no one in ME3 will be gay.  NOT ONE CHARACTER.  Garrus is not going to suddenly start hitting on male Turians and talking about his same sex lover from his last crew.  If anything, there will be exactly one conversation trigger that will allow him to become attracted to manShep (not every man in the universe), and it will be easily avoidable.


The worst possible thing Bioware could do is make characters Shepardsexual.

I'd rather Garrus did hit on male Turians or talk about a past same sex lover than have a male crush on Shep only. It would be far more realistic than having Shep be so f---king epic that he can get into anyone's pants, male or female, regardless of their previous sexual interests.

And this is from someone who is against Bioware making characters characters who previously only expressed an interest in the opposite sex, bisexual or homosexual in ME3. (like Garrus)

#623
Mr. MannlyMan

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Ryzaki wrote...

Bocks wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

To be honest and non bias the easiest male to make s/s is Garrus. He's not really attracted to FemShep. He's with her because she's Shepard. Not because he has some human fetish. Him doing the same to male Shepard wouldn't even be a stretch. Not to mention he doesn't even see her that way until *she* brings it up, another way for him to easily slip into it. Dude Shep never mentions it, so he never thought about it.


I know I'm replying to a relatively old post but you're going to be making a lot of enemies if Garrus turns out to be gay.


If they're too stupid to realize the different between a xenophile and a gay person then I really don't care about them being enemies. 


Quick, good sirs! Get me fire and lava, and we shall see how long this strawman lasts!

#624
Time4Tiddy

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Han Shot First wrote...

The worst possible thing Bioware could do is make characters Shepardsexual.


Unfortunately, this is exactly what they'll do.  It's what they did in DA:2, and it's what they'll do here.  Characters that are basically straight for all intents and purposes but will become bisexual/gay if (and only if) Shepard of the same sex triggers a romance.

#625
Ryzaki

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Mr. MannlyMan wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Bocks wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

To be honest and non bias the easiest male to make s/s is Garrus. He's not really attracted to FemShep. He's with her because she's Shepard. Not because he has some human fetish. Him doing the same to male Shepard wouldn't even be a stretch. Not to mention he doesn't even see her that way until *she* brings it up, another way for him to easily slip into it. Dude Shep never mentions it, so he never thought about it.


I know I'm replying to a relatively old post but you're going to be making a lot of enemies if Garrus turns out to be gay.


If they're too stupid to realize the different between a xenophile and a gay person then I really don't care about them being enemies. 


Quick, good sirs! Get me fire and lava, and we shall see how long this strawman lasts!


Huh. Yours is already on fire apparently. :innocent: