889 replies to this topic

[Siansonea]

Raanz wrote...

After reading 35 pages of this thread, I see four camps at this bonfire:

1. Folks who simply do not like homosexuals/bisexuals and want no part of that life style represented in a game they play.
They obviously get slammed for this

2. Folks who do not want first-run characters to be "changed" but would welcome s/s romances with new or non-prior LIs.
They get slammed because they do not agree with the angry mob (who might not all be angry or a mob, but a handful ruins it for the rest)

3. Folks that want s/s with old characters and don't care what others think as long as they get what they want (again, this is perception propagated by a few)
They get slammed by A). folks that do not care for the sexual preferences and . folks that feel that group "3" have an arrogance about them and eventually lump them into the group "1" category.

4. Folks who could care less one way or another, and wish it would all just go away.
They don't get slammed

I'm pretty sure these are the players in this *cough* debate.

I'm parked somewhere between Group 3 and Group 4. I think Group 1 needs to take a chill pill, and I think to some extent group 2 needs to get glad in the same pants they got mad in. Mass Effect 2 served up several heaping helpings of Do Not Want for me, in the form of Garrus, Tali and Thane romances. I mean, srsly? Aliens? DEXTRO aliens? Bro Garrus? Li'l Sis Tali? Ewwwwww. But you know what? People clamored for them, people got them, and I could avoid them without too much trouble. So I was able to get glad in the same pants I got mad in. I could see how making alienmancers happy was good for everyone, and I'd hate for BioWare to limit their options just because it was stretching realism for me. Especially since there were so many non-optional things that I couldn't avoid that REALLY stretched/broke realism for me. Lazarus Project. What. The. Pluck. Working for CERBERUS. Are. You. Kidding. Me. Baby Reaper. I think I dented my forehead when I facepalmed. So yeah, headbumps, antibiotics and teary-eyed assassins are pretty low on the WTF scale by comparison. 

[Zkyire]

RinjiRenee wrote...

IEatWhatIPoo wrote...

I know there will (and should be changes) but just not to the degree of DA2-Anders. Also what transition? He didn't actually have Justice within him during DA:A. That happened afterwards.

The hints were heavily dropped in DA:A, please read this.

The change didn't come out of nowhere.

Oh wow, did not see any of that.

[Rinji the Bearded]

IEatWhatIPoo wrote...

Oh wow, did not see any of that.

When I first remembered the quote about iconoclasm I just stopped and went "FFFFFFFFFFUUU---".

[Raanz]

RinjiRenee wrote...

5. People that oversimplify the matter and lump people together due to the "perception propagated by the few" instead of taking each argument as its own and not thinking it as part of some hidden agenda.

People in the above category should be ashamed of derailing the argument and not actually lending anything to said argument.

I've added plenty to the myriad of other threads there are about this subject.  You seem to be one of the more combative proponents of the issue so I will summarily dismiss your obvious directed attack at my post and me personally.

Mountains - mole hills....you seem to be pretty good at it.

[Rinji the Bearded]

Raanz wrote...

I've added plenty to the myriad of other threads there are about this subject.  You seem to be one of the more combative proponents of the issue so I will summarily dismiss your obvious directed attack at my post and me personally.

Mountains - mole hills....you seem to be pretty good at it.

Actually, some people have said I'm one of the most calm about it.  I "attacked" you because you fail to take each argument someone poses and instead label them as either 1, 2, 3, or 4 based on those assumptions, dismissing the argument all together because you-can-do-no-wrong apparently. 

And I disagree.  Give me your arguments against this topic, I will discuss as civily as a forum poster can.  Label me and assume of me, and we have a problem.

Where do the people who want former s/s LIs but are open to civil discussion fall under, I wonder?  Your system seemed so flawless.

Edited by RinjiRenee, 28 June 2011 - 09:45 PM.

[Raanz]

RinjiRenee wrote...

Raanz wrote...

I've added plenty to the myriad of other threads there are about this subject.  You seem to be one of the more combative proponents of the issue so I will summarily dismiss your obvious directed attack at my post and me personally.

Mountains - mole hills....you seem to be pretty good at it.

Actually, some people have said I'm one of the most calm about it.  I "attacked" you because you fail to take each argument someone poses and instead label them as either 1, 2, 3, or 4 based on those assumptions, dismissing the argument all together because you-can-do-no-wrong apparently. 

And I disagree.  Give me your arguments against this topic, I will discuss as civily as a forum poster can.  Label me and assume of me, and we have a problem.

Where do the people who want former s/s LIs but are open to civil discussion fall under, I wonder?  Your system seemed so flawless.

I just listed them as I saw them play out.  Is it flawless?  Hell no.  I certainly am not without flaws.
For example, I missed the group of folks that are against NEW romances with established characters, especially Ashley and Kaidan, be they s/s or not.

Within this thread, I have seen folks that do not want s/s option with those two characters in particular, and they state that their reason is because THEY FEEL that it jacks with the perceived established norms of the characters.  I have seen these same folks presented with an opposing viewpoint regarding that reasoning...when the opposing viewpoint is rejected, these people are called moronic, idiotic, insensitive and even unknowingly "heterosexually privileged".
I have also read where the other side is attacked as well, and by no means do I condone that, but when strawmen are presented in order to dispell legitimate opinions, then they fall into one of those categories for me.

I'm sorry if this upsets you but that's the way I see it.    Don't worry, I will refrain from anymore observations and leave you to your obsession.

[Rinji the Bearded]

Raanz wrote...

I just listed them as I saw them play out.  Is it flawless?  Hell no.  I certainly am not without flaws.
For example, I missed the group of folks that are against NEW romances with established characters, especially Ashley and Kaidan, be they s/s or not.

Within this thread, I have seen folks that do not want s/s option with those two characters in particular, and they state that their reason is because THEY FEEL that it jacks with the perceived established norms of the characters.  I have seen these same folks presented with an opposing viewpoint regarding that reasoning...when the opposing viewpoint is rejected, these people are called moronic, idiotic, insensitive and even unknowingly "heterosexually privileged".
I have also read where the other side is attacked as well, and by no means do I condone that, but when strawmen are presented in order to dispell legitimate opinions, then they fall into one of those categories for me.

I'm sorry if this upsets you but that's the way I see it.    Don't worry, I will refrain from anymore observations and leave you to your obsession.

I've never called anyone as such, so I don't know why I am suddenly labeled combantant.  I merely give my reasoning and people can and will disagree with me.  They just need to expect that I will (respectfully) disagree right back.

[Zeratul20]

Wow. Too many new pages to read all of it. I noticed a post yesterday, but didn't have time to respond:
While I agree that not all characters should be "changed" by the protagonist's influence, Anders was one of the few that gave the impression that he COULD be influenced, to some degree.

I do appreciate the amount of DA:O-A party banter between Justice and Anders, though. Thank you for posting that.

As to those four categories: I thoroughly disagree. For example, I personally am not interested in S/S relationships (being straight), but I do believe it's a good thing that they are implemented in ME3. I also don't mind if they "change" some of the old characters, for this purpose, as long as they do so in a proper fashion. So where do I fit in...?

[shepskisaac]

Zeratul20 wrote...
As to those four categories: I thoroughly disagree. For example, I personally am not interested in S/S relationships (being straight), but I do believe it's a good thing that they are implemented in ME3. I also don't mind if they "change" some of the old characters, for this purpose, as long as they do so in a proper fashion. So where do I fit in...?

In the smart, secure & loving, category

Edited by IsaacShep, 29 June 2011 - 05:57 AM.

[Fault Girl]

Zeratul20 wrote...

As to those four categories: I thoroughly disagree. For example, I personally am not interested in S/S relationships (being straight), but I do believe it's a good thing that they are implemented in ME3. I also don't mind if they "change" some of the old characters, for this purpose, as long as they do so in a proper fashion. So where do I fit in...?

+1

Although I can understand why people are worried about his character "changing" I'm sure Bioware will do a good job. I just want the s/s romance to be different to the straight one. Make it worth it, not just a change of he/she.

[mya11]

If Kaidan is bi I will be disapointed but I understant the gay male lile him, I hope the devs write good history for gay male and heteto women

[Cutlasskiwi]

mya11 wrote...

If Kaidan is bi I will be disapointed but I understant the gay male lile him, I hope the devs write good history for gay male and heteto women

My guess is that the romance would play out pretty much the same for both sexes.

[78stonewobble]

Siansonea II wrote...

Raanz wrote...

After reading 35 pages of this thread, I see four camps at this bonfire:

1. Folks who simply do not like homosexuals/bisexuals and want no part of that life style represented in a game they play.
They obviously get slammed for this

2. Folks who do not want first-run characters to be "changed" but would welcome s/s romances with new or non-prior LIs.
They get slammed because they do not agree with the angry mob (who might not all be angry or a mob, but a handful ruins it for the rest)

3. Folks that want s/s with old characters and don't care what others think as long as they get what they want (again, this is perception propagated by a few)
They get slammed by A). folks that do not care for the sexual preferences and . folks that feel that group "3" have an arrogance about them and eventually lump them into the group "1" category.

4. Folks who could care less one way or another, and wish it would all just go away.
They don't get slammed

I'm pretty sure these are the players in this *cough* debate.

I'm parked somewhere between Group 3 and Group 4. I think Group 1 needs to take a chill pill, and I think to some extent group 2 needs to get glad in the same pants they got mad in. Mass Effect 2 served up several heaping helpings of Do Not Want for me, in the form of Garrus, Tali and Thane romances. I mean, srsly? Aliens? DEXTRO aliens? Bro Garrus? Li'l Sis Tali? Ewwwwww. But you know what? People clamored for them, people got them, and I could avoid them without too much trouble. So I was able to get glad in the same pants I got mad in. I could see how making alienmancers happy was good for everyone, and I'd hate for BioWare to limit their options just because it was stretching realism for me. Especially since there were so many non-optional things that I couldn't avoid that REALLY stretched/broke realism for me. Lazarus Project. What. The. Pluck. Working for CERBERUS. Are. You. Kidding. Me. Baby Reaper. I think I dented my forehead when I facepalmed. So yeah, headbumps, antibiotics and teary-eyed assassins are pretty low on the WTF scale by comparison. 

With all that slammin going around I should feel happier... But I'm not. I hate cloudy humid weather but love a cool rain. This day is ignorant of me.

On the other hand... I did spend 45 minutes extra talking to a busdriver who really really needed to talk (don't know the dude other than he never shuts up). Apparently my good deed for today. *insert somewhat perplexed facepalming smiley*

Anyway on the topic. There are very different takes on the different characters. Bro-Garrus approach strikes me as closet gay but that might just be me not understanding that concept and being backwards calling it friends. Tali as little sister. That kinda makes sense especially in ME1 but I think it was a quite elegant transformation in ME2.

Edited by 78stonewobble, 29 June 2011 - 02:06 PM.

[Stanley Woo]

this discussion can be rolled into the Virmire Survivor potential s/s romance thread. Thank you.

End of line.