1269 réponses à ce sujet

[SarEnyaDor]

I wouldn't worry about it Brock, I am sure he'll kill off over half the POV's before it is all said and done

[Brockololly]

SarEnyaDor wrote...

I wouldn't worry about it Brock, I am sure he'll kill off over half the POV's before it is all said and done

Oh most likely- I seem to recall from one of his recent interviews he said as much- that he'll need to trim down the number of POVs.

[KenKenpachi]

Lol wow thats nice....why do I get the feeling that this story will end as

"And they all were killed by the "Others" the End."

Modifié par KenKenpachi, 17 août 2011 - 02:13 .

[Addai]

He can do it also by bringing POV characters back together. Jaime and Brienne are together now (*awkard side hug*), hopefully Tyrion and Dany will join forces, etc.

[Addai]

GRRM did a reading from Winds of Winter today. Details are sketchy as of yet, but apparently it was Arianne Martell POV and finished with reference to a battle. Then GRRM commented about not being sure where to insert the battle.

[bobthecrusher]

Battles are always bad in this series...(for the Main characters at least)

and if it was a battle with Arianne as a PoV then I'm guessing it has to do with Griff. I'm also willing to bet Doran goes 'F' it" and sides with Griff.

[Carfax]

To those that replied to my question concerning the nature of the deities in ASoIF, thank you.

It seems most people are in agreement that the deities aren't in fact, true deities, but some sort of manifestation of raw magical energy.

However, this still doesn't explain the apparent presence of sentience in these manifestations. If there is some sort of magical force operating in ASoIF World, then it's very much like the Force from Star Wars, in that it possesses sentience and duality ie light and dark..

Without the presence of sentience, you can't explain various phenomena like the War for the Dawn, the Others, Azor Ahai, selective resurrections etc...

What gets me though, is that magic itself seems to be related to Dragons as well. After the birth of the dragons, magic grew in strength tremendously no one can deny. But I seriously doubt that Dragons are the source of magic itself, because while magic may have lain dormant in the West and near East, it was still strong in Asshai by the Shadow before the birth of the dragons.

[bobthecrusher]

I'd also like to point out that it was this same magic that brought the dragons back into th world. There were 3 deaths (Drogo, her son, and the Maegi) that payed for the three lifes of the dragons.

[Carfax]

bobthecrusher wrote...

I'd also like to point out that it was this same magic that brought the dragons back into th world. There were 3 deaths (Drogo, her son, and the Maegi) that payed for the three lifes of the dragons.

Indeed..  I hope George Martin keeps the nature of the deities and magic mysterious.  Sometimes it's just better for the story to not know everything.

[bobthecrusher]

Carfax wrote...

bobthecrusher wrote...

I'd also like to point out that it was this same magic that brought the dragons back into th world. There were 3 deaths (Drogo, her son, and the Maegi) that payed for the three lifes of the dragons.

Indeed..  I hope George Martin keeps the nature of the deities and magic mysterious.  Sometimes it's just better for the story to not know everything.

I'm sure he will, part of it seems to be that NO ONE, really knows what the magic is, they have bits and peices of the truth, but no one knows the exact nature of the magic

[Heimdall]

Carfax wrote...

bobthecrusher wrote...

I'd also like to point out that it was this same magic that brought the dragons back into th world. There were 3 deaths (Drogo, her son, and the Maegi) that payed for the three lifes of the dragons.

Indeed..  I hope George Martin keeps the nature of the deities and magic mysterious.  Sometimes it's just better for the story to not know everything.

One of the series strengths is how relatively low key and unknown the magic is in the most of it.

[Slurms McKenzie]

@Lord Aesir

I concurr.

I realize how pointless this post is but I like to feel like I'm contributing.

Good Luck and Stay Safe

Modifié par Slurms McKenzie, 08 septembre 2011 - 10:02 .

[Addai]

GRRM has posted a section of The Winds of Winter online.

Stannis!  And Theon, who is Theon again.  Asha makes a brief appearance.

Modifié par Addai67, 01 janvier 2012 - 04:32 .

[Eski.Moe]

Holy crap, that was pretty awesome. I think this just makes the wait more unbearable.
Maybe Bran is looking through the eyes of one those ravens? It might just be for dramatic effect but I think something more is at play here.

[FedericoV]

Addai67 wrote...

GRRM has posted a section of The Winds of Winter online.

Stannis!  And Theon, who is Theon again.  Asha makes a brief appearance.

It's really a great chapter. What I liked most about it is the style GRRM used: it's more functional and less descriptive. Remembered me of AGoT days when a charachter could travel the whole north in one chapter.

In very few pages, a lot of interesting things happens. There is almost no filler. I mean, I love some of the descriptive passages of AFfC and ADwD. They are really beautiful and show a lot of skill and artistry. But from time to time I stop and think that there is too much description and world building in those books and that it has come comes at the expense of pace, wich is glacial in the last couple of books.

So, I'm happy for the gift chapter but at the same time I begin question some if not most of the editorial decision behind ADwD (and AFfC too). Theon's chapter belongs to ADwD. It does not make a lot of sense to read it at the beginning of TWoW after the last Jon's chapter and such. The battle for Winterfell and the battle for Mireen belongs to ADwD. Jon's, Tyrion's and Dany's chapter could have been shorter without hurting the narrative a bit (quite the opposite). The whole "all the story for half the charachter" structure does not work and created a lot of timeline issues.

So, I think that Martin should change editor. Ms Groell is really nice and devoted, but she is too much of a fan to help the author imho.

Modifié par FedericoV, 01 janvier 2012 - 12:23 .

[TJPags]

Addai67 wrote...

GRRM has posted a section of The Winds of Winter online.

Stannis!  And Theon, who is Theon again.  Asha makes a brief appearance.

Thanks for the link, and nice to read some WoW material.

However, unless my memory is off - and I'm currently re-reading aDwD, so I'll know shortly, isn't that chapter a HUGE spoiler?  My memory says in a DwD we last saw Theon jumping over the wall, and last we heard of Stannis was the report that Bolton had slaughtered him.

While not so much spoiling the possibility of Stannis being slaughtered, it tells us Theon lived.

Not sure it was such a good idea releasing this as a teaser . . . . .

[Addai]

Yes, it's a huge ADWD spoiler which is why I posted it here and not on the TV thread. I was a bit surprised, too, since it seemed like we were on the hook for Stannis and Theon and now it's only... *searches memory* Jon whose status is undefined.

[In Exile]

TJPags wrote...
While not so much spoiling the possibility of Stannis being slaughtered, it tells us Theon lived.

We know Theon made it to the camp. He has a very powerful line when he reaches it, and says his name is Theon.

It's not clear that this is after the battle, though.

[FedericoV]

In Exile wrote...

TJPags wrote...
While not so much spoiling the possibility of Stannis being slaughtered, it tells us Theon lived.

We know Theon made it to the camp. He has a very powerful line when he reaches it, and says his name is Theon.

It's not clear that this is after the battle, though.

It is before the battle. In his NAB Martin explained that Theon's chapter happens before the final chapters of ADwD (he is not very specific but the reference to the the last Jon's chapter is clear, since it's the only relevant alternative). So, it's not a big spoiler: the pink letter could have been sent anyway after the events described in that chapter and Stannis could have loose the fight. Not that likely (but it sounded unlikely even before I read the gift chapter: I could not believe to Stannis dying off screen) but still a possibility.

There is a tiny spoiler but is more subtle. In the pink letter, Ramsay (or whoever have written it) talks about a seven days battle outside the wall of Winterfell. Instead Stannis explains that he wants to fight at the frozen lake since he is planning a trap. The frozen lake is some days north (or south?) of Winterfell. Moreover, Theon and fake Arya are with Stannis so Ramsay should know the location of them if he really killed Stannis (while in the letter he hints that they are at the Wall with Jon).

So, now we know for sure that the pink letter is not to be believed. Mind, GRRM has allready confirmed in an interview that the letter is not 100% truth. Btw, I'm not entirely sure that it was wirtten by Ramsay since he likes to write his letters in blood.

Modifié par FedericoV, 03 janvier 2012 - 11:17 .

[jcainhaze]

My question is spoilery so beware!

Would someone clear some things up for me. I read through ADWD kinda fast but thought I picked up on everything until later I started asking myself some questions.

1. Didn't it say that Jon is the son of Eddard Stark and one of Jon Arryn's daughters? Conceived in a boat or something? lol it's kinda fuzzy

2. If that's true and I didn't dream it...then what happened to her? Die during birth?

3. So if this is the case then Jon's not a Targaryan as previously speculated by fans.

[FedericoV]

jcainhaze wrote...

1. Didn't it say that Jon is the son of Eddard Stark and one of Jon Arryn's daughters? Conceived in a boat or something? lol it's kinda fuzzy

No, during the first Davos chapter, the lord of Sisterton claims that Eddard fathered Jon with a fisherwoman, during his escape from the Vale at the beginning of the War of the Usurper. Imho, it's just a red herring. GRRM is joking with our expectations. As far as I can remember, there is a recurrent joke about Jon acting like a fisherwoman (since the first book).

2. If that's true and I didn't dream it...then what happened to her? Die during birth?

See above, you dream it . The fate of the fisherwoman is not important since it's a red herring most probably.

3. So if this is the case then Jon's not a Targaryan as previously speculated by fans.

Yes, the Rhaegar+Lianna=Jon theory is very popular within the fanbase. There are no proof but the text seems to support it in some vague instances (prophecies, visions and such), so most people have finished to believe it. It's a possibility but imho is not true.

Why? Because Jon does not show any sign of Targaryen blood in his behaviour (I mean madness) and he is very much of a Stark: he is the strongest warg of the Stark child and he is the very essence of northman leadership (for good and for bad).

I allways believed that Jon was the son of Eddard and Ashara Dayne (even if it sounded strange because of Ned's honour). Now, after ADwD and after a carefull re-read of Barristan's POV chapter, I've changed my mind and come to the conclusion that he is the bastard child of Brandon Stark and Ashara Dayne.

Modifié par FedericoV, 04 janvier 2012 - 12:07 .

[TJPags]

FedericoV wrote...

jcainhaze wrote...

1. Didn't it say that Jon is the son of Eddard Stark and one of Jon Arryn's daughters? Conceived in a boat or something? lol it's kinda fuzzy

No, during the first Davos chapter, the lord of Sisterton claims that Eddard fathered Jon with a fisherwoman, during his escape from the Vale at the beginning of the War of the Usurper. Imho, it's just a red herring. GRRM is joking with our expectations. As far as I can remember, there is a recurrent joke about Jon acting like a fisherwoman (since the first book).

2. If that's true and I didn't dream it...then what happened to her? Die during birth?

See above, you dream it . The fate of the fisherwoman is not important since it's a red herring most probably.

3. So if this is the case then Jon's not a Targaryan as previously speculated by fans.

Yes, the Rhaegar+Lianna=Jon theory is very popular within the fanbase. There are no proof but the text seems to support it in some vague instances (prophecies, visions and such), so most people have finished to believe it. It's a possibility but imho is not true.

Why? Because Jon does not show any sign of Targaryen blood in his behaviour (I mean madness) and he is very much of a Stark: he is the strongest warg of the Stark child and he is the very essence of northman leadership (for good and for bad).

I allways believed that Jon was the son of Eddard and Ashara Dayne (even if it sounded strange because of Ned's honour). Now, after ADwD and after a carefull re-read of Barristan's POV chapter, I've changed my mind and come to the conclusion that he is the bastard child of Brandon Stark and Ashara Dayne.

There seem to be many versions of where Jon came from . . .it seems we get one per book (perhaps not literally, but sure seems that way sometimes).

Personally, I'm a supporter of the R+L=J theory.  Why?  the basic reasons, really:

1.  Ned never once refers to or calls Jon his son.  It's always "Jon is my blood".  Perhaps a silly distinction, but I look at who Ned is - Mr. Honor, after all - and the one interesting place he says it - to Cat (she relates that story).  Why would he quibble like that to her unless he simply didn't want to lie?

2.  There are indications that Rhaegar and Lyanna were . . let's say, into one another.  There are indications Rhaegar was less than into his wife.  These seem connected, to me.

Now, add to those several other little tidbits - Jon and Arya look alike, and are the only Stark kids not to resemble Cat . . . and Arya is said to have Lyanna's coloring.  Ned denies the Ashara Dayne story to Robert, yet still refuses to tell him who the mother is.  And, of course, his promise to Lyanna, which he holds almost sacred.  And, umm, why was she dying anyway?  The description we get, of her in bed, bloody sheets, sounds to me like a birth gone wrong . . . and the timing of her death seems to fit with Jon's age, AFAIK.

I admit Jon doesn't seem very "Targaeryan-like", but we've really only seen 2 (maybe 3 if we count "Griff"), and Viserys wasn't really onscreen all that long.  He was raised in the North, believing himself Ned's son, so I'm not surprised a lot of Ned's attitude's and values show up in Jon.

As to the warg issue, this is explained as easily by him being Lyanna's son as Ned's . . . .perhaps moreso, since even Ned seems to consider his sister fiercer than himself in many ways.

[jcainhaze]

Cool, thanks you two. Can't wait to find all this mess out! So do you think Jon is Azor Ahai? Do you think The Price that was Promised is the new Targ Aegon. Will they work together? I'm expecting the Winds of Winter to be awsome......like all the other books.

[Eski.Moe]

I'm still really disappointed that we didn't get to see the scenes with Lyanna and Tower of Joy. They would have made for some excellent flashbacks for Ned.
Plus, they would have enhanced for the expectations for the audience haha.
"He can't die, he has to keep fulfilling the promise he made to his sister!"
*thwop*

[Addai]

FedericoV wrote...

Why? Because Jon does not show any sign of Targaryen blood in his behaviour (I mean madness) and he is very much of a Stark: he is the strongest warg of the Stark child and he is the very essence of northman leadership (for good and for bad).

It is said Lyanna had the wolf blood, that she was a stronger Stark than others who bore the name.  So I don't disbelieve at all that her child would be as Stark as Stark comes.

And, does Jon strike you as Daenerys-like?  She's a Targ, too, and not mad.  Rhaegar wasn't, either.