1269 réponses à ce sujet

[Addai]

Varys' riddle made me think of the "mummer's dragon." I'm still hoping Aegon is the real thing, though.

[TJPags]

Lord Tywin's cupbearer?

Did I miss a siege of Storm's End?

Who was that person claiming to be from Volantis during the Robb scene?

[Addai]

TJPags wrote...

Lord Tywin's cupbearer?

Did I miss a siege of Storm's End?

That was Harrenhal.  As far as I can see they are pretty on track with that arc, just stepping up the anxiety for Arya a bit.  Tywin will soon have to ride out to meet Robb, and Jaqen was in the preview so the Brave Companions must be showing up next episode.

Who was that person claiming to be from Volantis during the Robb scene?

Pretty sure that's Jeyne.  You didn't catch the puppydog looks on Robb's face?

[TJPags]

Addai67 wrote...

TJPags wrote...

Lord Tywin's cupbearer?

Did I miss a siege of Storm's End?

That was Harrenhal.  As far as I can see they are pretty on track with that arc, just stepping up the anxiety for Arya a bit.  Tywin will soon have to ride out to meet Robb, and Jaqen was in the preview so the Brave Companions must be showing up next episode.

Who was that person claiming to be from Volantis during the Robb scene?

Pretty sure that's Jeyne.  You didn't catch the puppydog looks on Robb's face?

Yes, that was Harenhal, but I think she was Roose Bolton's cupbearer later on, not Tywin's at that point.  Or Tywin's ever, iirc.

And I figured that was supposed to be Jeyne (Westerling/Lannister/whatever family they want to make her part of now) but what did she call herself?  It wasn't Jeyne . . . .did they change her first name, too?

[Addai]

I'm guessing she is going by a pseudonym, for some reason. But she spoke with an accent so maybe they intend to make her another international woman of mystery. Shae's sister? *shudder*

No, Arya was never Tywin's cupbearer. But they probably thought they needed to bring Tywin in again. It would be easy for her to stay on as cupbearer if that's what she's already doing.

[Brockololly]

Addai67 wrote...
That was Harrenhal.  As far as I can see they are pretty on track with that arc, just stepping up the anxiety for Arya a bit.  Tywin will soon have to ride out to meet Robb, and Jaqen was in the preview so the Brave Companions must be showing up next episode.

I'm worried they're going to cut Vargo Hoat and the Brave Companions and just sort of lump them in with generic Lannisters like Amory Lorch, Polliver, the Tickler and all those guys.Cause I don't think they've cast Vargo have they? But sooner or later they'll need the Bloody Mummers considering Jaime and Brienne next season and isn't Qyburn one of the Brave Companions too?

I really liked them in the books cause they're such a ragtag collection from every corner of Westeros and Essos and show the mercenary side of war.

Beyond that, I'm wondering if they don't have Tywin pretty much take all of Roose Bolton's stuff at Harenhal. In the books, doesn't Harrenhal basically start off in the hands of Tywin/Gregor, then Amory Lorch and the Brave Companions once Tywin/Gregor leave, then the Brave Companions betray the Lannisters, Arya frees the Northmen  and they take over the castle and then Roose marches in? Not sure how they'll condense this if they get rid of Vargo and company...


I liked the Shadow Baby scene but I'm not sure I like condensing it to just one and seemingly skipping Storm's End and Edric Storm. At minimum, I liked in the book how Renly was killed by the shadow first and as the reader, you're right along with Cat and Brienne in being totally shocked and confused as to what the hell you just saw. You might think its tied to Stannis, but its so out of left field, you're right along with the characters.

Then when Davos smuggles Mel underneath Storm's End and birthes the second shadow baby to kill Penrose, its still a WTF moment but you're able to connect the dots. Not to mention why TV Davos needed to smuggle Mel anywhere in the first place, since I'm guessing Renly isn't protected by magical wards like Storm's End was.

[Seagloom]

Yes. In ACoK Arya never met Tywin. I think she may seen him from afar once or twice at most. Then she convinces Jaqen to help her with a plan. The Lannisters are driven out, Bolton marches in, and the Brave Companions go turncoat.

Arya becomes Roose Bolton's cupbearer after he hears about her role in supplanting the Lannisters. It's clear they are handing over most, if not all of Roose's interactions with her to Tywin. In the preview for next week's episode they show Tywin pegging her for a northerner; which is only slightly different from her conversation with Bolton.

I guess they're going to have Tywin sit in Harrenhal until he sets out for King's Landing; then have Bolton march in after the fact behind the scenes--assuming it happens at all.

Still, this change does not bother as much as it probably should. Perhaps because unlike the Yoren thing, it will not impact Arya's characterization any from my viewpoint.

[TJPags]

Brockololly wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
That was Harrenhal.  As far as I can see they are pretty on track with that arc, just stepping up the anxiety for Arya a bit.  Tywin will soon have to ride out to meet Robb, and Jaqen was in the preview so the Brave Companions must be showing up next episode.

I'm worried they're going to cut Vargo Hoat and the Brave Companions and just sort of lump them in with generic Lannisters like Amory Lorch, Polliver, the Tickler and all those guys.Cause I don't think they've cast Vargo have they? But sooner or later they'll need the Bloody Mummers considering Jaime and Brienne next season and isn't Qyburn one of the Brave Companions too?

I really liked them in the books cause they're such a ragtag collection from every corner of Westeros and Essos and show the mercenary side of war.

Beyond that, I'm wondering if they don't have Tywin pretty much take all of Roose Bolton's stuff at Harenhal. In the books, doesn't Harrenhal basically start off in the hands of Tywin/Gregor, then Amory Lorch and the Brave Companions once Tywin/Gregor leave, then the Brave Companions betray the Lannisters, Arya frees the Northmen  and they take over the castle and then Roose marches in? Not sure how they'll condense this if they get rid of Vargo and company...


I liked the Shadow Baby scene but I'm not sure I like condensing it to just one and seemingly skipping Storm's End and Edric Storm. At minimum, I liked in the book how Renly was killed by the shadow first and as the reader, you're right along with Cat and Brienne in being totally shocked and confused as to what the hell you just saw. You might think its tied to Stannis, but its so out of left field, you're right along with the characters.

Then when Davos smuggles Mel underneath Storm's End and birthes the second shadow baby to kill Penrose, its still a WTF moment but you're able to connect the dots. Not to mention why TV Davos needed to smuggle Mel anywhere in the first place, since I'm guessing Renly isn't protected by magical wards like Storm's End was.

If they do this - and they might, it seems they feel there are too many characters or something - then who's going to cut off Jaime's hand?  Because I'm pretty sure that was Vargo Hoat (in the books) and I can't see Tywin doing that . . .

[Addai]

I've not heard anything about a Vargo Hoat being cast, so I dunno how they are going to do this. My guess would be Roose will end up doing the honors for Jaime, since they introduced him as someone who wanted to torture prisoners. BTW doesn't Roose have a creeptastic voice? Awesome.

I am going to have to tape my eyes in place to keep them from rolling every time "Talyssa" shows up on the screen. I know they have to show it, but I'm just going to hate everything about seeing Robb become a whipped man.

[Brockololly]

Addai67 wrote...

I've not heard anything about a Vargo Hoat being cast, so I dunno how they are going to do this. My guess would be Roose will end up doing the honors for Jaime, since they introduced him as someone who wanted to torture prisoners. BTW doesn't Roose have a creeptastic voice? Awesome.

I am going to have to tape my eyes in place to keep them from rolling every time "Talyssa" shows up on the screen. I know they have to show it, but I'm just going to hate everything about seeing Robb become a whipped man.

Yeah, I guess Roose could do it... I don't know. I'd be really bummed out if they don't have the Bloody Mummers- they're like a dysfunctional RPG party of sickos!

I really like the casting for Roose. Now they just need Ramsay to complete the nice father/son dynamic!

[HoonDing]

They better not skip the (triumphant) return of Barristan Selmy in Qarth.

Speaking of him, anyone think "the Stark" he refers to when he reminisces on his past in ADwD is Ned?

Modifié par HoonDing, 24 avril 2012 - 08:26 .

[TJPags]

Hmmm, I think I need some help/refresher.
Jaqan Hagar . . . . I always believed (well, after Arya got to the House of Black and White, anyway) that he was a servant of the Many Faced God.  However, I noticed during tonight's episode he said (paraphrased) "3 lives were taken from the RED GOD .  The RED GOD must have his due".

Did he say that as well in the books?  I don't remember (and don't have my copy handy).  And if so, am I wrong?  Does he not serve the Many Faced God?

Am I missing something?

[Brockololly]

TJPags wrote...

Hmmm, I think I need some help/refresher.
Jaqan Hagar . . . . I always believed (well, after Arya got to the House of Black and White, anyway) that he was a servant of the Many Faced God.  However, I noticed during tonight's episode he said (paraphrased) "3 lives were taken from the RED GOD .  The RED GOD must have his due".

Did he say that as well in the books?  I don't remember (and don't have my copy handy).  And if so, am I wrong?  Does he not serve the Many Faced God?

Am I missing something?

*flips through A Clash of Kings*

"The Red God has his due, sweet girl, and only death may pay for life. This girl took three that were his. This girl must give three in their places. Speak the names and a man will do the rest."

So they did get that right, although obviously, Jaqen is a Faceless Man and presumably serves the Many Faced God. I'm guessing he's referring to R'hllor there because Rorge, Biter and Jaqen would have been burned alive and thus taken by R'hllor- fire and all that.

Modifié par Brockololly, 30 avril 2012 - 03:23 .

[TJPags]

Brockololly wrote...

TJPags wrote...

Hmmm, I think I need some help/refresher.
Jaqan Hagar . . . . I always believed (well, after Arya got to the House of Black and White, anyway) that he was a servant of the Many Faced God.  However, I noticed during tonight's episode he said (paraphrased) "3 lives were taken from the RED GOD .  The RED GOD must have his due".

Did he say that as well in the books?  I don't remember (and don't have my copy handy).  And if so, am I wrong?  Does he not serve the Many Faced God?

Am I missing something?

*flips through A Clash of Kings*

"The Red God has his due, sweet girl, and only death may pay for life. This girl took three that were his. This girl must give three in their places. Speak the names and a man will do the rest."

So they did get that right, although obviously, Jaqen is a Faceless Man and presumably serves the Many Faced God. I'm guessing he's referring to R'hllor there because Rorge, Biter and Jaqen would have been burned alive and thus taken by R'hllor- fire and all that.

Thank you, Brock.  I'm sure I'd already considered that when I read it . . . it just struck me when I heard it during the show.  Likely it's due to a thread I'd been reading over at Westeros that made me go "huh, what?  why did he say that??".

I do remember something about the Faceless Men respecting all gods . . .I think I need to go back and re-read some Arya chapters again.

[Addai]

As I recall, Braavos was packed with temples and people honored all gods.

[Brockololly]

Kind of bugs me how they killed the Tickler. If only because Arya killing him in A Storm of Swords, stabbing him over and over yelling "Where is the gold hidden in the village?" is a pretty memorable moment, being the first time Arya personally kills somebody on her list. Kind of shows how mentally scarred she was by the torture too on a personal level. Whereas on the show, it seems more like she's killing the Tickler out of some altruistic sensibility to spare others from torture.

Then you've got Bran taking Jojen's dream of the sea overtaking Winterfell. I'm guessing the whole Winterfell/Theon/Bran storylines will be significantly different from here on out. Assuming Theon takes Winterfell next episode, we should have already been introduced to Reek, but it seems he's not been cast this season. Cause as I recall, Jojen even had a dream about Reek killing everyone too.

Shame, as Ramsay is one of my favorite characters...well, not *favorite* but he's certainly memorable and really necessary for Theon's future developments.I really am at a loss for how they'll resolve the Winterfell plot this year if they don't have Ramsay/Reek? Unless they don't finish that this year? Or have Ramsay some helmeted figure? But that kind of undermines the twist in his identity which was pretty good in the books too.

[AxisEvolve]

Brockololly wrote...

Kind of bugs me how they killed the Tickler. If only because Arya killing him in A Storm of Swords, stabbing him over and over yelling "Where is the gold hidden in the village?" is a pretty memorable moment.

FUUUuuuuuuuuuuu- 

We'll never get to see this.

What if they decided to do something completely different from the books? Like Arya name dropping Tywin as one of her 3 deaths? I highly doubt that would happen. But think of how much they are changing things compared to last season. Once they get to adapting the later books... who knows what they will do?

It's seems that GRRM really doesn't care about the changes at all. 

Modifié par AxisEvolve, 30 avril 2012 - 06:41 .

[twincast]

AxisEvolve wrote...

It seems that GRRM really doesn't care about the changes at all. 

Nah, he understands how things work from having been on the other side (plus the first season has earned the HBO guys some considerable goodwill), meaning he's apparently got a higher threshold than most book fans regarding when a change moves from "ahh, bummer" to "WTF!?", and even so there's obviously at least some changes he doesn't care for at all (definitely "Talisa" and Shae, quite possibly Littlefinger and maybe more), he's just too polite/professional/friendly/non-Alan-Moore-ish to publically call them out on them clearly.

[Brockololly]

twincast wrote...

AxisEvolve wrote...

It seems that GRRM really doesn't care about the changes at all. 

Nah, he understands how things work from having been on the other side (plus the first season has earned the HBO guys some considerable goodwill), meaning he's apparently got a higher threshold than most book fans regarding when a change moves from "ahh, bummer" to "WTF!?", and even so there's obviously at least some changes he doesn't care for at all (definitely "Talisa" and Shae, quite possibly Littlefinger and maybe more), he's just too polite/professional/friendly/non-Alan-Moore-ish to publically call them out on them clearly.

This is a pretty good and recent interview with GRRM where he talks about the changes from the books to the show at about the 11 minute mark. He even points out how characters in the show are different than the books at around the 15 minute mark, like Shae, Littlefinger, Renly and Osha.

I do wonder about how he feels about certain other more major plot changes, like the absence of Meera/Jojen/Reek  since that stuff seems like it'll make for a very significant differences in the plot from the books to show.

[Brockololly]

And thinking about differences between the show and books, a couple questions:

• How are they going to resolve the Winterfell plotline without Reek?
• How are they going to resolve the Harrenhal/Arya plotline without the Bloody Mummers?

Will they still have Roose Bolton come and take over Harrenhal before the end of this season? If there isn't any Reek/Ramsay, who is going to burn Winterfell to the ground and take Theon captive? Who will cut off Jaime's hand next year if not Vargo? How will Qyburn come into the picture if they don't introduce the Brave Companions?

The Winterfell plot really doesn't add up to me without Ramsay. I'm just trying to think how they might condense it and I can't think of much. It wouldn't make sense for Theon or the Ironborne to burn Winterfell. It wouldn't make much sense for Roose Bolton to be the one to kick the Ironborne out, as he should be in Harrenhal...although I guess they might end up doing that, with Winterfell being burned down being seen as some kind of collateral damage to get the Ironborne out. Kind of reinforcing how the show seems to be portraying Roose as pretty brutal in his methods. And then maybe have some other Northern Lord take over Harrenhal?

I dunno.

Modifié par Brockololly, 01 mai 2012 - 12:20 .

[TJPags]

Brockololly wrote...

And thinking about differences between the show and books, a couple questions:

• How are they going to resolve the Winterfell plotline without Reek?
• How are they going to resolve the Harrenhal/Arya plotline without the Bloody Mummers?

Will they still have Roose Bolton come and take over Harrenhal before the end of this season? If there isn't any Reek/Ramsay, who is going to burn Winterfell to the ground and take Theon captive? Who will cut off Jaime's hand next year if not Vargo? How will Qyburn come into the picture if they don't introduce the Brave Companions?

The Winterfell plot really doesn't add up to me without Ramsay. I'm just trying to think how they might condense it and I can't think of much. It wouldn't make sense for Theon or the Ironborne to burn Winterfell. It wouldn't make much sense for Roose Bolton to be the one to kick the Ironborne out, as he should be in Harrenhal...although I guess they might end up doing that, with Winterfell being burned down being seen as some kind of collateral damage to get the Ironborne out. Kind of reinforcing how the show seems to be portraying Roose as pretty brutal in his methods. And then maybe have some other Northern Lord take over Harrenhal?

I dunno.

[*]I wish I could tell you.  I've been thinking along these lines myself, and I must say - I'm stumped.  It's been my concern the minute I realized they were cutting so many characters.  Back in season 1, we didn't meet any of the Northern Lords besides Greatjon.  Well, fine, we'll meet them later.  And we didn't - not in Season 1.  Now, we finally met Roose.  But what about Rickard Karstark?  Didn't meet his sons, either - not sure we heard of their deaths.  So, when Cat lets Jaime go - assuming that still happens - will Karstark still be ready to kill?  Will we know why?  Will we care?  And what will that make the plotline from aDwD - the Karstark treachery?  Will it make sense?
[*]We still have time for the Bloody Mummers to show up - obviously, it would be different than the books, but they can show.  Same with Ramsay/Reek.  He could be introduced differently.  They could make it work.  But without the Mummers, who is going to take off Jaime's hand?  Robb?  Another Northerner?  Makes less sense, to me.  And Winterfell/Theon without Ramsay?  No, please no.
[*]My concern remains that the changes may make the story not work.  Or, if the story still works, then it makes those characters (the cut ones) of so much less importance in the books.  I don't mind changes such as, for instance, the opening scene of Season 1, Ep. 1 (Book 1 prologue) - keep what happened, tell it slightly differently.  But cutting characters (list too long to even make), creating large roles for people we passed in the night in the books (see, Ros, as a perfect example) - this concerns me.  No, it bothers me.  It's possible they can stay true to the overall story, but it may be so completely changed it will either ruin the series or the books.  I'd much prefer the series to be ruined than the books, but I fear that will happen.
[*]I know GRRM has been heavily involved in this series.  And he's made comments that indicate he's okay with the changes, that he feels this is a chance to rewrite or correct things already in print.  But honestly, other than the need to have cut books from 1 volume to 2 (see, aFfC and aDwD) I see little, if anything, in print that needs correcting or changing.

[TJPags]

I'm also seeing rumors that the Reed kids - Jojen and Meera - have not been cast, with people saying they won't be. As in, don' t exist in the series.

So, after whoever they use in place of Ramsay Snow burns Winterfell, who goes with Bran North of the Wall in search of the 3 eyed-crow? And who goes with Rikkon? I mean, there must be some point to the kids splitting up (besides the obvious, don't keep both heirs in the same place). Will we learn this at all in the show?

Changes - I'm not happy.

[Addai]

I'm missing the Riverlands and Tullys, too, but it's possible they will just have unnamed Bolton men joining Theon and introduce Ramsay next season. That's the hope I hold out for the Reeds and the Blackfish too.

[Brockololly]

TJPags wrote...


[*]I wish I could tell you.  I've been thinking along these lines myself, and I must say - I'm stumped.  It's been my concern the minute I realized they were cutting so many characters.  Back in season 1, we didn't meet any of the Northern Lords besides Greatjon.  Well, fine, we'll meet them later.  And we didn't - not in Season 1.  Now, we finally met Roose.  But what about Rickard Karstark?  Didn't meet his sons, either - not sure we heard of their deaths.  So, when Cat lets Jaime go - assuming that still happens - will Karstark still be ready to kill?  Will we know why?  Will we care?  And what will that make the plotline from aDwD - the Karstark treachery?  Will it make sense?

I guess it depends on if they end the Winterfell storyline or Arya's Clash of Kings storyline by the end of this season or if they drag them out into next season, considering they've got basically 2 seasons to do A Storm of Swords. That said, I loved the end of Clash with the imagery of Bran emerging out of the crypts looking out on a ruined Winterfell, that seemed like a good end to a season right there, like season 1 had Dany emerging from the ashes with the dragons.

As for Karstark, I do think that I saw somewhere that they casted him for this year. 

TJPags wrote...

I'm also seeing rumors that the Reed kids - Jojen and Meera - have not been cast, with people saying they won't be. As in, don' t exist in the series.

So, after whoever they use in place of Ramsay Snow burns Winterfell, who goes with Bran North of the Wall in search of the 3 eyed-crow? And who goes with Rikkon? I mean, there must be some point to the kids splitting up (besides the obvious, don't keep both heirs in the same place). Will we learn this at all in the show?

Changes - I'm not happy.

 

I've heard that too. And who knows, considering Bran already took one of Jojen's greendreams in the show. And in the books, the Reeds are important for their history and the backstory regarding Lyanna but the show doesn't seem to have touched that stuff at all. Which makes me wonder how they'll do something like the House of the Undying, considering so much of that is tied to past events and symbolism (the blue rose stuck in the Wall or Rhaegar naming The Prince That Was Promised and so forth)?

As for Bran without the Reeds, I read somewhere that they might have Maester Luwin survive to go with Bran. I guess they could make that work since they already hinted at him having studied magic with his one link in his chain. I don't remember if that was in the books or not, but they could basically have him be the Jojen role.

Or they could introduce the Reeds next year and just have them meet Bran and company on the road as they were coming to Winterfell but were late or something? 

I'm just really curious how they'll handle certain characters and plots going quiet for a long time. Since Osha and Rickon go MIA or Theon once he's taken by Ramsay. Its funny how they made a point of Jaime having more to do this season than in the books when he's been in one scene thus far? But I'm guessing they;ll show his escape attempt in episode 7.


And thats not saying anything of the missing Tully's. They have to show up, or at least probably Edmure and Hoster, or else the Red Wedding will make zero sense.

[twincast]

Brockololly wrote...

This is a pretty good and recent interview with GRRM where he talks about the changes from the books to the show at about the 11 minute mark. He even points out how characters in the show are different than the books at around the 15 minute mark, like Shae, Littlefinger, Renly and Osha.

Yeah, I know that one. And other than the old news of him liking the show's Osha so much it will influence his portrayal of her in the coming books (which I'm still not sure how to feel about, by the way), he strikes me as ... polite. That said, while I'm pretty sure he sees HBO's LF and Renly as lesser takes on the characters, I can't quite tell by how much. As for Shae and "Talisa" however, he's gone on record before that the type of characters they are on the show are rather terribly written ones, so I daresay it's a given what the thinks about those two.

And as for "correcting" his books: The only thing he ever mentioned in that way was adding more POV characters in the early books, specifically Robb, but in the same breath he always hastens to add that he's rather happy that he did it the way he did as Robb's royal fukk-ups (for each of which I always wanted to bang his head silly against a wall) have more impact that way. So nah, he never really said the TV show could "correct" things, only that it could add stuff unseen at best.