1269 réponses à ce sujet

[LTD]

Turns out the Rains of Castamere is in Youtube!
Pretty solid performance as well.

Modifié par LTD, 02 juillet 2011 - 08:53 .

[Seagloom]

BigEvil wrote...

If GRRM did that I'd be fine with it. Jon's a good character and all, but from the brief appearances of Mance Rayder I find him very interesting. I think he has a kind of puckish quality to him. I'm also hoping to see more from Tormund.

My main, if admittedly minor gripe with that is Mance Rayder would be coming in past the story's halfway point. Jon has been around from the start. Still, I could bear the loss of Jon if I had to. Now if Arya croaks I will cry.

@LTD - Nice find!

[BigEvil]

Well, unless all of the current POV characters survive the last three books there are going to be a few characters coming in to the spotlight beyond the halfway point. Either that or things will either get stale or the number of POV characters will increase which might be a bad thing if it slows the pace down too much.

[Seagloom]

I doubt they all will, but let's face it: some characters are easier to cut than others. Jon is a driving force of the whole Wall part of the story. The impact of his being killed would be felt if the void he left wasn't filled with a very interesting replacement. Maybe Mance Rayder is that character. Maybe not. It'd be like killing off Dany. There's no way that wouldn't be a huge impact. More so than when Ned died by several times, I'd imagine.

I also don't think it necessarily guarantees a stale storyline. There are two books left after this one. If it feels stale it's because GRRM is dragging things on. I know two people that think he's ****footing around, actually, and are worried he might extend the series beyond seven novels.

Modifié par Seagloom, 02 juillet 2011 - 09:34 .

[Nigawatts]

I just feel like a death of Jon would have to mean an end of the Night Watch storyline. Stannis and Melisandre have their own goals, it does not even touch upon the White Walkers or even the ultimate fate of the North. Sure they are fighting the Boltons right now, but honestly it's as an outsider would see it. Stannis is after the Iron Throne, and probably could give two ****s about what happens beyond the wall, or the Others.

Dany on the other hand... if she died, several characters would hit a brick wall and it would take awhile for them to recover from. What would Tyrion do? I mean what would be the point of going back to Westeros without Dany to keep him from Lannister retribution? Hell the Greyjoy's would hit a brick wall too, since without Dragons, Euron has no plan. The Ironmen might as well side with Asha since only her plan will help them survive the retaliation from the mainland.

[Addai]

Who's to say the Night Watch will not die out? They're on the brink. It could well be that wildlings become the new stewards of the Wall. I'm not saying I think it's likely, just that it's possible, because with GRRM, anything is possible.

[WeRtheBrox]

Personally, I'd love to see some chapters from Petyr's POV....

[Seagloom]

That is what worries me, Addai. Just because GRRM can do something does not mean he should. Everyone makes mistakes. He would not be the first author to try something radical with their story and bring it to the brink of ruin.

[Addai]

Seagloom wrote...

That is what worries me, Addai. Just because GRRM can do something does not mean he should. Everyone makes mistakes. He would not be the first author to try something radical with their story and bring it to the brink of ruin.

I dunno, I like Mance Rayder, and I like the wildlings.  Oh god, I'm talking myself into this. lol

Not really- Jon aside, there is GHOST to consider.  I keep waiting for Nymeria to show up in more than just passing references.  Are Nymeria and Arya going to be re-united someday?

[naughty99]

I honestly think part of the reason for this massive delay with Dance With Dragons was due to GRRM's fondness for the characters he is going to kill off in this novel.

[WeRtheBrox]

Addai67 wrote...
I keep waiting for Nymeria to show up in more than just passing references.  Are Nymeria and Arya going to be re-united someday?

As much as I'd love that, to me it would be pushing credibility a bit.  She already got Needle back -- how many other irreplaceable things can she stumble upon?

[Seagloom]

Addai67 wrote...

I dunno, I like Mance Rayder, and I like the wildlings.  Oh god, I'm talking myself into this. lol

My constant disagreement often has this effect on people.

[Brockololly]

Yeah...I just want to be surprised with the rest of the books but not in a "Oh boy, lets kill off this person now too!" sort of way. The Red Wedding almost felt like that...it would be like 24 when they just started killing people off for shock value.

I guess I really just want to get winter underway and see what the deal is with the stuff beyond the Wall; whether thats with Bran, Jojen and Meera with Coldhands or Stannis/Melisandre, the Night's Watch, Jon and the Others. The political stuff is all well and good but I want my ice zombie invasion on giant spiders and zombie horses, please.

That said, while I do like Dany, I want her to start going through more trials like almost every other character has had to. Since Drogo's death, she seems to have gotten off pretty easily since the dragons are super plot armor. Maybe don't kill off Dany but have her decision to banish Ser Jorah come back and bite her in the ass. Have one or two of her dragons killed off. Complicate things for her such that its not just her marching across Westeros with her super dragons with everyone bowing down to her awesomeness.


And unrelated, but Mance Rayder is just such an awesome sounding and fun to say name:D

Modifié par Brockololly, 03 juillet 2011 - 04:20 .

[Addai]

WeRtheBrox wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
I keep waiting for Nymeria to show up in more than just passing references.  Are Nymeria and Arya going to be re-united someday?

As much as I'd love that, to me it would be pushing credibility a bit.  She already got Needle back -- how many other irreplaceable things can she stumble upon?

Nymeria is not a needle in a haystack, though- she's a direwolf where there aren't any, in the same region where Arya first chased her off.  There is also the psychic connection we hear about through Bran.  The wolves can find each other again, so maybe if the Stark kids find each other then they can reunite.

I just hope none of the kids finds their mother.  

Modifié par Addai67, 03 juillet 2011 - 04:36 .

[WeRtheBrox]

Yeah, I just finished ASoS a few days ago and  !  Catelyn!  Good point about Nymeria, though.

Now that I'm about 200 pages in to AFfC, may I just express my humble opinion that Cersei is an awful, pathetic, pitiable excuse for a human being?  I was sort of excited when I saw that some chapters would be from her POV -- I thought I'd get to see some hidden depths or something.  But no, she really is just a shallow, selfish, power-hungry word-that-rhymes-with-hunt. 

[Seagloom]

Brock wrote...

Yeah...I just want to be surprised with the rest of the books but not in a "Oh boy, lets kill off this person now too!" sort of way. The Red Wedding almost felt like that...it would be like 24 when they just started killing people off for shock value.

Yes, exactly. I think major character deaths need to make sense and move the plot forward in an interesting way. GRRM may do things differently than most other novelists with this story, but there is a reason novels stick to the same conventions. Killing people off just to show "s*** is real now!" would be irksome. Much as I enjoy this series, it is not perfect. I can easily see it careening into a sinkhole with the right push.

And yes, I love saying Mance Rayder. I also think King Beyond the Wall is the coolest title of the series.

Modifié par Seagloom, 03 juillet 2011 - 11:21 .

[Maria13]

Addai67 wrote...

Seagloom wrote...

That is what worries me, Addai. Just because GRRM can do something does not mean he should. Everyone makes mistakes. He would not be the first author to try something radical with their story and bring it to the brink of ruin.

I dunno, I like Mance Rayder, and I like the wildlings.  Oh god, I'm talking myself into this. lol

Not really- Jon aside, there is GHOST to consider.  I keep waiting for Nymeria to show up in more than just passing references.  Are Nymeria and Arya going to be re-united someday?

From my recent re-reading of ASoS it was Nymeria who dragged Catelyn's body out of the river which resulted in her re-animation.

[KenKenpachi]

Nigawatts wrote...

I just feel like a death of Jon would have to mean an end of the Night Watch storyline. Stannis and Melisandre have their own goals, it does not even touch upon the White Walkers or even the ultimate fate of the North. Sure they are fighting the Boltons right now, but honestly it's as an outsider would see it. Stannis is after the Iron Throne, and probably could give two ****s about what happens beyond the wall, or the Others.

Dany on the other hand... if she died, several characters would hit a brick wall and it would take awhile for them to recover from. What would Tyrion do? I mean what would be the point of going back to Westeros without Dany to keep him from Lannister retribution? Hell the Greyjoy's would hit a brick wall too, since without Dragons, Euron has no plan. The Ironmen might as well side with Asha since only her plan will help them survive the retaliation from the mainland.

Imo those two are the only untouchables in the story. Not that thats a bad thing. Hell you HAVE to have centeral plot characters. And if anything we know Davo's is finished after this book, and we have pretty much good asurance that the Queen is as well. So that free's up two slots. Still wondering if the Little ole Wolf Girl will get her eyesight back or not, or when all the fools will find out that the two Stark brothers live. Speaking of the Starks I wouldn't be surprised if Jon wins the Rebelion aginst him, or rather it doesn't happen with the Queen imprisoned, but not decisivly so, and he takes Stannis offer of leading the north. Would be neat to see what happens in that reguards if a bastard sits at the head of the table when the two truebornes return. Though I doubt one of them will.

But I do like ole Dany Girl and hope she can bring stability to the region. Basically Stannis is too much of a dick to rule, the Small council with its puppet king, has no clue what its doing, yee old Queen is basically on the verge of a French Revolution, nevermind that ice zombies are coming, winter, and the devistation brought on by the Wars has damaged any ability to farm, while Winter is right around the corner. With out her, or her building an Empire on the other side of the Sea, Westeros   is finished. It will either be overran, or have so few survivors that it might as well be. And even though this novel dips into dark fantasy, I'm sure that such an ending would bring down an outrage, just as Chewies Death in the Vong Wars did. The story will revolve around those two I expect, but in what capacity and with what changes, I don't know.

Modifié par KenKenpachi, 03 juillet 2011 - 12:53 .

[Brockololly]

Seagloom wrote...
I think major character deaths need to make sense and move the plot forward in an interesting way. GRRM may do things differently than most other novelists with this story, but there is a reason novels stick to the same conventions. Killing people off just to show "s*** is real now!" would be irksome. Much as I enjoy this series, it is not perfect. I can easily see it careening into a sinkhole with the right push.

And yes, I love saying Mance Rayder. I also think King Beyond the Wall is the coolest title of the series.

Yeah, something like Ned's death works because it sets in motion everything afterwards with the war for the throne and all that. Basically, I think big character deaths have to have meaning and impact beyond their death. Obviously some will be bigger than others, but then again killing characters off willy nilly is an easy way for people to lose interest too if you do it too much.


And I am sooooo looking forward to the TV series getting to the Wildling/Night's Watch stuff with Rayder and Halfhand and the battle at the Wall with Stannis storming in to save the day. That was so awesome in the books.

[WeRtheBrox]

KenKenpachi wrote...
Basically Stannis is too much of a dick to rule,

I must respectfully disagree with you on that one.  I think he's a bit like Ned, actually, in that he has a very strong and rigid sense of honor.  He proclaimed himself king not because he wanted to, but because he knows that Cersei's children are not Robert's, and the crown therefore rightfully belongs to him.  Ned was preparing to support him for the same reason.  But he is more likely than Ned to do the 'wrong' thing for the 'right' reason (i.e. sacrificing Edric Storm to save the realm).  Stannis' problem is that he doesn't truly want the job, and that he's being manipulated by Melisandre.  But a dick?  No, not really.

[BigEvil]

I wouldn't say Stannis is a dick, but he doesn't have the charisma to rule easily. He's a stick in the mud and when he sent Davos out to sound out nobles for siding with him virtually none of them would, including most of the nobles who were supposed to be his bannermen. I can't see him getting the throne unless he does something to win the people over. Something like being in the forefront of defeating the Others. Depends how things go at the Wall and who gets credit for what. Stannis could just as easily be seen as the King who dropped the ball against the Others as the one who saved Westeros from them if things don't go well.

[KenKenpachi]

As to Stannis maybe dick is a bit too harsh, hard ass more like it. But the whole "I'm'a worship'n another god, burn'n down yer temples and forest god tree's" is as sure to make him a welcomed ruler on the mainland as much as say, Chrstian Crusaders, killing Imans in the Mid East during the Crusades. But I do agree Melisandre seems to be the driving force there. And a worrying one at that. As to him getting the Throne, tis possible, but holding it? Thats another thing all together.

[In Exile]

Addai67 wrote...
Edit:  I'll admit that I'm not as enamored of Robb's story, even though it's basically the same thing.  It's probably just because I like Rhaegar and Lyanna more than Robb and what's her name. 

Jeyne, I think. Robb's story isn't the same, though, because of the general lack of nobility in what Robb does to end up in the same situation and potential use of mind control.

[In Exile]

Seagloom wrote... One of the reasons I can still root for Jon is that other than benefiting from being raised in a lord's keep, he is an everyman sort of character. Whatever wisdom and success Jon has earned so far was done the hard way.

Wait, what? Jon is the anti-everyman. He event gets an arc in Game of Thrones about how he's totally a douchebag for just how superior he holds himself over every single brother of the Watch.