1269 réponses à ce sujet

[In Exile]

Brockololly wrote...

Yeah...I just want to be surprised with the rest of the books but not in a "Oh boy, lets kill off this person now too!" sort of way. The Red Wedding almost felt like that...it would be like 24 when they just started killing people off for shock value.

GRRM cheats, though. If you dissociate PoV character from protagonist for the story, it would be a little like seeing the plot of DA:O from the PoV of all the characters beside the Warden (e.g. Branka, Harrowmont, Wynne, Zevran, Loghain). None of them dying would be shock value... but it's shocking because we're seeing the world through their eyes instead of the eyes of the "hero".

I guess I really just want to get winter underway and see what the deal is with the stuff beyond the Wall; whether thats with Bran, Jojen and Meera with Coldhands or Stannis/Melisandre, the Night's Watch, Jon and the Others. The political stuff is all well and good but I want my ice zombie invasion on giant spiders and zombie horses, please.

I think we'll all be dissapointed here. DA:O is a good parallel for that too. Think of where the battle with the archdemon was.

I'm betting the conflict ends on the Trident and King's Landing, not north of the Wall.

[Addai]

In Exile wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
Edit:  I'll admit that I'm not as enamored of Robb's story, even though it's basically the same thing.  It's probably just because I like Rhaegar and Lyanna more than Robb and what's her name. 

Jeyne, I think. Robb's story isn't the same, though, because of the general lack of nobility in what Robb does to end up in the same situation and potential use of mind control.

Mind control?  Did I miss something?

I think they're similar.  Robb didn't want to marry a Frey so he let another woman tempt him.  Maybe he got overconfident at that point, thinking he could bluster or bull his way out of the marriage agreement.

[HoonDing]

Last book in the series just announced:

[naughty99]

virumor wrote...

Last book in the series just announced:

[In Exile]

Addai67 wrote...
Mind control?  Did I miss something?

Potentially. Maggy the Frog (who Cersei keeps going on about) is really Maegi i.e. the same type of person as the woman as that midwife who cursed Khal Drogo and sacrificed Rhaego, and the one who sold love charms and potions.

She's the mother (or grandmother) of Sybelle Spicer, who is Jeyne's mother. We are told lots of details: Sybelle has a knowledge of medicine (she provided the abortificants to Jeyne), Jeyne specifically tended his wounds (not a Maester, whose job it would be) and Tywin Lannister's mercy (they have lands and titles for betraying him, after the Reynes of Castamere?).

Remember, Robb had to have sex with Jeyne while wounded. So she's either all over him, or he's essentially putting the moves on her while cut up and feverish.

I think they're similar.  Robb didn't want to marry a Frey so he let another woman tempt him.  Maybe he got overconfident at that point, thinking he could bluster or bull his way out of the marriage agreement.

Catelyn points out that Robb's real love is war early on. He didn't want to marry a Frey, but that was more because he didn't want to marry. Given GRRM's hints, I think we have excellent reasons to believe Robb led astray by less than magical means.

[bobthecrusher]

I didn't catch the whole 'mind control' thing at all, lol, but it makes sense. I think it's more likely, however, that Tywin just had a ****ed up sense of humor, and wanted them to live out their days in the prison of their lands, a reminder to them that they caused the North's defeat.

Really looking forward to dance of dragons, I'm fairly certain little finger's gonna get F'ed in the A by tribesmen (led by Tyrion ) and Varys is with Dany because, where else could he go besides Dorne, and we know he's not there(or maybe not, IDK) Looking forward to seeing how Stannis will manage to screw things up in the North as well

[Addai]

In Exile wrote...
Catelyn points out that Robb's real love is war early on. He didn't want to marry a Frey, but that was more because he didn't want to marry. Given GRRM's hints, I think we have excellent reasons to believe Robb led astray by less than magical means.

Hm.  But we don't know of any other instance of mind control.  Life pays for life, who are they killing for this?

I hadn't put that all together, but if that's true then I don't like that scenario either.  Too much magical interference in the politics.  Let people **** things up on their own.

Modifié par Addai67, 05 juillet 2011 - 06:45 .

[In Exile]

Addai67 wrote...
Hm.  But we don't know of any other instance of mind control.  Life pays for life, who are they killing for this?

Love potions might be another kind of thing entirely, though.

I hadn't put that all together, but if that's true then I don't like that scenario either.  Too much magical interference in the politics.  Let people **** things up on their own.

Oh, I agree 100%. But I think it's right up GRRM's alley. He did essentially swap out Cersei's loathing of Tyrion to all result from a prophecy by Maggy the Frog, after all.

[Seagloom]

In Exile wrote...

Wait, what? Jon is the anti-everyman. He event gets an arc in Game of Thrones about how he's totally a douchebag for just how superior he holds himself over every single brother of the Watch.

He held himself superior because he thought his swordsmanship made him so. It was an emotional crutch to protect himself from the harsh reality that no one outside Winterfall would treat him respectfully. When Jon arrives and near instantly gets tagged with the nickname Lord Snow, and mocked relentlessly by Ser Aliser, he lashes out in the way most children would.

Jon was no one that mattered in Westeros. He was not a lord's heir, rich, influential, or anything. The most you can say about Jon is he never had to go hungry and was taught how to fight. While that may not make Jon an everyman next to peasant recruits of the Night's Watch, he still had to earn many of his accomplishments without the advantages Tyrion and Dany had going for them. And yes, I know Dany started with nothing, but her bloodline is clearly significant, what with the dragons and all.

Modifié par Seagloom, 05 juillet 2011 - 03:35 .

[In Exile]

Seagloom wrote...
He held himself superior because he thought his swordsmanship made him so. It was an emotional crutch to protect himself from the harsh reality that no one outside Winterfall would treat him respectfully. When Jon arrives and near instantly gets tagged with the nickname Lord Snow, and mocked relentlessly by Ser Aliser, he lashes out in the way most children would.

But he's still a Lord. He was taught by a Maester, raised by Eddard Stark, usually supped with the lord of the north (in a keep that was several times grander than actual holdfasts legitimate lords had) and practiced swordsmanship with a knight. He learned to ride and had his own horse.

Jon was no one that mattered in Westeros. He was not a lord's heir, rich, influential, or anything.

He was raised as the bastard of one of the 7 greatest lords of the realm, and (as Catelyn constantly bemoans) more specifically raised as one of his children.

The most you can say about Jon is he never had to go hungry and was taught how to fight. While that may not make Jon an everyman next to peasant recruits of the Night's Watch, he still had to earn many of his accomplishments without the advantages Tyrion and Dany had going for them. And yes, I know Dany started with nothing, but her bloodline is clearly significant, what with the dragons and all.

Jon didn't have to earn anything - he impressed Aemon so much that he reccomended him as Mormont's squire and was groomed as the Lord Commander from the very start. He threw a hissy fit over his father, but otherwise has been incredibly priveledged.

[BigEvil]

A question to throw out to those with more knowledge of the books than me. I know that Edric Dayne and Darkstar are cousins, and Edric is the Lord of the Dayne family, but what relation are both to Ser Arthur Dayne? Is Edric his son, or grandson? From reading the books I got the impression that Ser Arthur Dayne was quite old at the time of the rebellion, but perhaps that was wrong.

[KenKenpachi]

So speaking of, who all here has the next book pre-orderd?

[Dune01]

Me!

[BigEvil]

I've got it pre-ordered.

[Addai]

Entertainment Weekly has a preview of the new book.  There are mild spoilers, so if you want to be completely unspoiled about ADWD, look away now.



The reviewer liked it a lot, ranking it higher than A Feast for Crows and Clash of Kings.  As we had already heard, Tyrion, Jon and Dany figure heavily.  This got my attention:

one character returns unexpectedly and that story just might be the strongest (and most heartbreaking) in the bunch.

  Any guesses?  My guess is either Syrio Forel/ Arya, or Jorah Mormont, maybe linking up with Brienne or Asha.

He said it feels disjointed at first, but by the end the threads start to come together.  Dorne will come into play again, via Dany.  We will be shocked, particularly by one scene, but he's not telling if there are any major character deaths.  I think that means that there is one.  There are cliffhangers for book 6.

I'm already anxious for book 6 to come out.  That's bad news. 

[Addai]

KenKenpachi wrote...

So speaking of, who all here has the next book pre-orderd?

Are you kidding?  I bought a Nook just so I could get it faster!

[KenKenpachi]

Hmm sounds neat, if I had to guess I'm going with Arya, given how we left off with her, but however she never went missing. Might be Greyjoy however, given he takes on that other dudes name, wished he died myself, ah well.

A nook?!

Get out of here, your dead to me, you and your techno rape of reading >>

Modifié par KenKenpachi, 06 juillet 2011 - 08:09 .

[Maria13]

@Addai

Thanks so much for the link. Good article without giving too much away. I agree on the order he gives for the books too. Just finished a re-read of three and it's the best so far.

My bet on the returned character is Theon.

Hee-hee I have a Kindle.

Modifié par Maria13, 06 juillet 2011 - 09:06 .

[In Exile]

BigEvil wrote...

A question to throw out to those with more knowledge of the books than me. I know that Edric Dayne and Darkstar are cousins, and Edric is the Lord of the Dayne family, but what relation are both to Ser Arthur Dayne? Is Edric his son, or grandson? From reading the books I got the impression that Ser Arthur Dayne was quite old at the time of the rebellion, but perhaps that was wrong.

As I recall, neither. We don't know who Edric Dayne's father and mother are. Dayne wasn't old, as I recall. He was friends with Rhaegar, and that made me think they were close in age.

[BigEvil]

In Exile wrote...

BigEvil wrote...

A question to throw out to those with more knowledge of the books than me. I know that Edric Dayne and Darkstar are cousins, and Edric is the Lord of the Dayne family, but what relation are both to Ser Arthur Dayne? Is Edric his son, or grandson? From reading the books I got the impression that Ser Arthur Dayne was quite old at the time of the rebellion, but perhaps that was wrong.

As I recall, neither. We don't know who Edric Dayne's father and mother are. Dayne wasn't old, as I recall. He was friends with Rhaegar, and that made me think they were close in age.

Oh, indeed, I'd forgotten that Kingsguard aren't allowed to have children. He'd have to be an uncle at most.

[KenKenpachi]

I think its worth a note that the Kingsguard as of Late when it comes to Oaths isn't all that good at keeping them.

[BigEvil]

Yes, but the books make a point of that, the current Kingsguard, starting with Jaimie, are not up to the standard of the previous members. He thinks about that a couple of times in aFfC while looking at the book about the Kingsguard.

[naughty99]

Spoiler-free review of Dance With Dragons

[KenKenpachi]

Sounds nice, saddly it reminds me of the fact we have no idea how long it will be till the next book