378 réponses à ce sujet

[FluffyScarf]

For some hilarious reason, the clowns who want games to be a challenge think it makes them superior human beings. As if it's somehow an amazing accomplishment. You beat a game. That's it. A bunch of pixels no one cares about. It's like saying you're the champion at television watching. They're practically the same thing anyway. You're just pressing the remote contro - I mean gamepad more often.

[Shrayev]

nhsk wrote...

DA:O -> DA2
ME1 -> ME2 -> ME3 - Yeah its getting dumbed down, because kids doesn't wan't any learning anymore --

I'm sorry, I couldn't make it past this.

[Loreshield]

gogman25 wrote...

Many people have suspected this and even though many fears have been laid to rest, I still remain skeptical.
For example, compare the combat trailer for Mass Effect 3 (Explosions, rock music, not really any dialogue, all action, no real interaction) to the Mass Effect 2 Launch Trailer (Epic space opera, endurance, determination, courage, love, romance).

Maybe it's just me but if these trailers are saying anything I think we've got Gears of War Commander Shepard edition.

You said it yourself in your OP... Combat / E3 Trailer =/= LAUNCH Trailer. Why can't people just calm the hell down and wait for the damn game.

Also, marketing.

[ImmortalWarrior]

FluffyScarf wrote...

For some hilarious reason, the clowns who want games to be a challenge think it makes them superior human beings. As if it's somehow an amazing accomplishment. You beat a game. That's it. A bunch of pixels no one cares about. It's like saying you're the champion at television watching. They're practically the same thing anyway. You're just pressing the remote contro - I mean gamepad more often.

Life is a game, then you die.  Don't judge people on their choice of a hobby.  Some people play games, some people build models, some people watch T.V., while others get drunk and beat their wife and kids...

Gaming is proven to stimluate cognative function in the brain and is even used to treat alzheimers patients. 

http://discovermagaz...-on-video-games
http://psychcentral....eimers/352.html

Besides, if it's just a game, to summarize your implied meaning, then why in the hell are you on the forums for said game?

[Repearized Miranda]

FluffyScarf wrote...

For some hilarious reason, the clowns who want games to be a challenge think it makes them superior human beings. As if it's somehow an amazing accomplishment. You beat a game. That's it. A bunch of pixels no one cares about. It's like saying you're the champion at television watching. They're practically the same thing anyway. You're just pressing the remote contro - I mean gamepad more often.

What's that say about that don't necessarily want one and asking that there be fixes because they don't want one?

Or to put it as you did: "Because they feel inferior"

Btw, while what you said is true, you could've worded it better.

I think most can agree that games are getting easier and it's not bravado talking; however, given such, it explains why they are. What's that say for the not-so-very skilled players because the skilled pllayers were like them once. This isn't me saying: "Suck it up and deal with it," but that is what the  SKILLED players had to do - no matter how much help they got!

[MonkeyKaboom]

I have yet to see how removing a ton of asinine menus is "dumbing down." Sitting through menu after menu is neither intelligent nor challenging (well maybe on patience), its tedious and boring. If all I wanted was to read menus all day and compare numbers, I wouldn't be playing a game. I'd be reading one of the hundreds of books on my shelf....

[I-am-Biwinning]

Has anyone actually bothered to look at the new skill trees? When you level up, let's say, "singularity" you get to choose whether to increase the duration, radius, or decrease the cooldown. For your passive class ability, you can choose whether to upgrade your paragon/renegade bonus, weapon damage, or class specific attribute(eg. sniper time dilation for infiltrator). For weapons we get customization with guns that aren't redundant like they were in ME1. No longer will one weapon totally outclass all the others. We are getting more options. If people want to freak out because the trailer was action oriented, then fine, whine all you want. Don't, however, say the game is being dumbed down until you take a long hard look at the confirmed features. All I see is Bioware doing their best to give us what we want. I mean seriously: we get to fight alongside Anderson, Garrus/Tali/Vs/Liara come back as squad members, removable helmets, deeper skill trees, weapon customization, Shepard can jump and climb ladders, and decisions on loyalty missions confirmed to have a major impact. When will it be enough?

[MonkeyKaboom]

I-am-Biwinning wrote...

Has anyone actually bothered to look at the new skill trees? When you level up, let's say, "singularity" you get to choose whether to increase the duration, radius, or decrease the cooldown. For your passive class ability, you can choose whether to upgrade your paragon/renegade bonus, weapon damage, or class specific attribute(eg. sniper time dilation for infiltrator). For weapons we get customization with guns that aren't redundant like they were in ME1. No longer will one weapon totally outclass all the others. We are getting more options. If people want to freak out because the trailer was action oriented, then fine, whine all you want. Don't, however, say the game is being dumbed down until you take a long hard look at the confirmed features. All I see is Bioware doing their best to give us what we want. I mean seriously: we get to fight alongside Anderson, Garrus/Tali/Vs/Liara come back as squad members, removable helmets, deeper skill trees, weapon customization, Shepard can jump and climb ladders, and decisions on loyalty missions confirmed to have a major impact. When will it be enough?

www.maniacworld.com/internet-bro-fist.jpg

[Sanunes]

I-am-Biwinning wrote...

Has anyone actually bothered to look at the new skill trees? When you level up, let's say, "singularity" you get to choose whether to increase the duration, radius, or decrease the cooldown. For your passive class ability, you can choose whether to upgrade your paragon/renegade bonus, weapon damage, or class specific attribute(eg. sniper time dilation for infiltrator). For weapons we get customization with guns that aren't redundant like they were in ME1. No longer will one weapon totally outclass all the others. We are getting more options. If people want to freak out because the trailer was action oriented, then fine, whine all you want. Don't, however, say the game is being dumbed down until you take a long hard look at the confirmed features. All I see is Bioware doing their best to give us what we want. I mean seriously: we get to fight alongside Anderson, Garrus/Tali/Vs/Liara come back as squad members, removable helmets, deeper skill trees, weapon customization, Shepard can jump and climb ladders, and decisions on loyalty missions confirmed to have a major impact. When will it be enough?

I agree with this.

[Praetor Knight]

I-am-Biwinning wrote...

Has anyone actually bothered to look at the new skill trees? When you level up, let's say, "singularity" you get to choose whether to increase the duration, radius, or decrease the cooldown. For your passive class ability, you can choose whether to upgrade your paragon/renegade bonus, weapon damage, or class specific attribute(eg. sniper time dilation for infiltrator). For weapons we get customization with guns that aren't redundant like they were in ME1. No longer will one weapon totally outclass all the others. We are getting more options. If people want to freak out because the trailer was action oriented, then fine, whine all you want. Don't, however, say the game is being dumbed down until you take a long hard look at the confirmed features. All I see is Bioware doing their best to give us what we want. I mean seriously: we get to fight alongside Anderson, Garrus/Tali/Vs/Liara come back as squad members, removable helmets, deeper skill trees, weapon customization, Shepard can jump and climb ladders, and decisions on loyalty missions confirmed to have a major impact. When will it be enough?

/thread

[FluffyScarf]

Because I like the story and characters? I'm not an anorak like G9 or TK or TST who thinks argh-pee-gees are the holy grail of games.

[addiction21]

I-am-Biwinning wrote...
snip

Dumbed down has been the cool buzzword for a while. Usually I skip threads that have it in the title but thank you because I agree with what you have said.

[Someone With Mass]

I-am-Biwinning wrote...

Has anyone actually bothered to look at the new skill trees? When you level up, let's say, "singularity" you get to choose whether to increase the duration, radius, or decrease the cooldown. For your passive class ability, you can choose whether to upgrade your paragon/renegade bonus, weapon damage, or class specific attribute(eg. sniper time dilation for infiltrator). For weapons we get customization with guns that aren't redundant like they were in ME1. No longer will one weapon totally outclass all the others. We are getting more options. If people want to freak out because the trailer was action oriented, then fine, whine all you want. Don't, however, say the game is being dumbed down until you take a long hard look at the confirmed features. All I see is Bioware doing their best to give us what we want. I mean seriously: we get to fight alongside Anderson, Garrus/Tali/Vs/Liara come back as squad members, removable helmets, deeper skill trees, weapon customization, Shepard can jump and climb ladders, and decisions on loyalty missions confirmed to have a major impact. When will it be enough?

My guess is when Shepard is like a chess piece.

You have a good point, though.

[FluffyScarf]

Or when they turn ME into a top down, 2D click fest with pointless numbers floating above everyone's head.

[LetsGoToMyHouse]

[cyclospdias]

I-am-Biwinning wrote...

Has anyone actually bothered to look at the new skill trees? When you level up, let's say, "singularity" you get to choose whether to increase the duration, radius, or decrease the cooldown. For your passive class ability, you can choose whether to upgrade your paragon/renegade bonus, weapon damage, or class specific attribute(eg. sniper time dilation for infiltrator). For weapons we get customization with guns that aren't redundant like they were in ME1. No longer will one weapon totally outclass all the others. We are getting more options. If people want to freak out because the trailer was action oriented, then fine, whine all you want. Don't, however, say the game is being dumbed down until you take a long hard look at the confirmed features. All I see is Bioware doing their best to give us what we want. I mean seriously: we get to fight alongside Anderson, Garrus/Tali/Vs/Liara come back as squad members, removable helmets, deeper skill trees, weapon customization, Shepard can jump and climb ladders, and decisions on loyalty missions confirmed to have a major impact. When will it be enough?

EXACTLY my point
Seriously people i think that having ME1 guns customisation wihtout the endless menus is the best.You still get to make choices that impact your performance just the 1000 menus become 1.Simple

[squee365]

I-am-Biwinning wrote...

Has anyone actually bothered to look at the new skill trees? When you level up, let's say, "singularity" you get to choose whether to increase the duration, radius, or decrease the cooldown. For your passive class ability, you can choose whether to upgrade your paragon/renegade bonus, weapon damage, or class specific attribute(eg. sniper time dilation for infiltrator). For weapons we get customization with guns that aren't redundant like they were in ME1. No longer will one weapon totally outclass all the others. We are getting more options. If people want to freak out because the trailer was action oriented, then fine, whine all you want. Don't, however, say the game is being dumbed down until you take a long hard look at the confirmed features. All I see is Bioware doing their best to give us what we want. I mean seriously: we get to fight alongside Anderson, Garrus/Tali/Vs/Liara come back as squad members, removable helmets, deeper skill trees, weapon customization, Shepard can jump and climb ladders, and decisions on loyalty missions confirmed to have a major impact. When will it be enough?

Probably the best post I've seen on this forum.

[Repearized Miranda]

I-am-Biwinning wrote...

Has anyone actually bothered to look at the new skill trees? When you level up, let's say, "singularity" you get to choose whether to increase the duration, radius, or decrease the cooldown. For your passive class ability, you can choose whether to upgrade your paragon/renegade bonus, weapon damage, or class specific attribute(eg. sniper time dilation for infiltrator). For weapons we get customization with guns that aren't redundant like they were in ME1. No longer will one weapon totally outclass all the others. We are getting more options. If people want to freak out because the trailer was action oriented, then fine, whine all you want. Don't, however, say the game is being dumbed down until you take a long hard look at the confirmed features. All I see is Bioware doing their best to give us what we want. I mean seriously: we get to fight alongside Anderson, Garrus/Tali/Vs/Liara come back as squad members, removable helmets, deeper skill trees, weapon customization, Shepard can jump and climb ladders, and decisions on loyalty missions confirmed to have a major impact. When will it be enough?

Gamers want the "perfect" game, so with all the good we'll get ...

If ME was flawless, nothing would've changed in 2. Likewise, from 2-3.

IOW, ME3 could be flat-out epic, but one minor issue could marr its perfection (Epicness is just a masking term)

[VegasVance]

gogman25 wrote...
Maybe it's just me but if these trailers are saying anything I think we've got Gears of War Commander Shepard edition.

The "Y" look at pretty cutsence button really sells it. 

[squee365]

Gears of War doesn't have decision making with outlying consequences, character customization, leveling up, weapon customization, skills, non-linear mission select, hub-worlds (towns), 20-40 hour gameplay, character imports, character selection, class selection, armor customization, character interaction, or multiple endings.

Other than "parts of the combat gameplay feel the same", you can't compare the two games.

[crimzontearz]

most intelligent people nowadays dislike being "sold" to

those same people dislike being "marketed" to

because when a company tries to "sell" to someone or "Market" to someone they try to appeal to the widest possible target audience highlighting the aspects of a product that might appeal to the most people

and let's face it most people are DUMB.....sorry but it is true.

for instance, take Dead Space. Dead space is a great game. For a survival Horror, Dead Space has a fairly deep upgrade system, great weapon variety and loadout that allows you to re-play the game in different ways and it has great scare moments more about tension than gore but look at the marketing.......none of these great features are even remotely adderessed, all you get is a juvenile marketing about how gory the game is (your mom will hate it) and some action oriented trailer that makes a survival horror look like a straight up TPS.

Yet those who played the game know that Dead Space is actually a very good game with great action set pieces that blend in with the personal horror and definitely not a straight up GoW-clone nor a high octane DMC-like action game.

given what we have seen so far that is what is happening to ME3. The game will have deep yet very accessible RPG mechanics and all the features and epicness we come to expect from Bioware games............but the marketing will be the usual "hey push a button and something AWESOME happens"


btw whoever decided that pushing that marketing was worth pushing on everyone like that at every possible turn needs to be fired with extreme prejudice

[Icinix]

Commander Shep4rd wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Commander Shep4rd wrote...

ME2 E3 Trailer
www.youtube.com/watch

ME3 E3 Trailer
www.youtube.com/watch

Not much difference huh.

Definitely a difference in who it looks like its marketed for.  I think the more harrowing song and theme of ME2 trailer would have been better served on ME3 and the ME3 one on ME2 personally.

Really? the only thing i see is crappy narrating,few story scenes with not much interaction at all then ACTION ACTION BOOM DAKKA DAKKA PEW PEW BOOM much like your average movie trailer.

ME3 - definitely. ME2 - Well - it was - but the tone was less epic superhero action boom boom power kablamoo and had that haunting - dark kind of feel - and a bucket load more of emotion.

[Bogsnot1]

So, from what I can tell, OP is complaining about the fact that he is too stupid to be able to tell the difference between an in-production gameplay demo, and a post-production Launch Trailer.

*patpats* There there OP. One day you'll get a clue. Perhaps some kind soul will purchase it for you.

[Gatt9]

FluffyScarf wrote...

Oh god. A teen who thinks he knows everything and is incredibly intelligent because he plays argh-pee-gees. Anything that doesn't appeal to his amazing, sophisticated mind is automatically inferior and unworthy of attention. Hint, there is a reason why humans are the only species to go through a puberty/teen phase.

Do you realize how ironic it is that you use that method of spelling RPG considering it's general use is to refer to people who want to claim they're RPGers but state they hate RPG mechanics?

For some hilarious reason, the clowns who want games to be a challenge think it makes them superior human beings. As if it's somehow an amazing accomplishment. You beat a game. That's it. A bunch of pixels no one cares about. It's like saying you're the champion at television watching. They're practically the same thing anyway. You're just pressing the remote contro - I mean gamepad more often.

I guess you haven't played many games outside of this console generation?

Because prior to this generation,  games were intended to challenge you,  provoke thought,  and yield satisfaction when you overcame the challenge.

It wasn't until this generation that the majority of games were designed to be so easy that you can beat them without thought or effort.

Go back a few years and you'll find games were intended to challenge you,  and keep you engaged for weeks.  Not like today's disaster where you're supposed to play for 8 hours,  finish it easily,  and toss it aside to move onto the next one as fast as possible.  This generation of games is disposable,  meant to keep you shelling out $60 as fast as you can,  not to provide you with any kind of satisfaction.  Go buy Fallout New Vegas,  that's how games used to be designed,  same with DAO.  Then compare it to ME2 or most shooters today.

There's also a reason why the gaming market is starting to slide into a crash.  Two months so far have been down 15%,  2 other months have been down as well.  COD's release saved one month.  Analysts's are starting to lean towards calling it a major event.

Disposable gaming,  and the "Everything should be a Shooter" mentality is why.

Has anyone actually bothered to look at the new skill trees? When you level up, let's say, "singularity" you get to choose whether to increase the duration, radius, or decrease the cooldown. For your passive class ability, you can choose whether to upgrade your paragon/renegade bonus, weapon damage, or class specific attribute(eg. sniper time dilation for infiltrator). For weapons we get customization with guns that aren't redundant like they were in ME1. No longer will one weapon totally outclass all the others. We are getting more options. If people want to freak out because the trailer was action oriented, then fine, whine all you want. Don't, however, say the game is being dumbed down until you take a long hard look at the confirmed features. All I see is Bioware doing their best to give us what we want. I mean seriously: we get to fight alongside Anderson, Garrus/Tali/Vs/Liara come back as squad members, removable helmets, deeper skill trees, weapon customization, Shepard can jump and climb ladders, and decisions on loyalty missions confirmed to have a major impact. When will it be enough?

The question still remains "Is it significant?".  I could get armor that boosted my health in ME2...5%,  like I'd notice it.  It wasn't significant.  Same with the Skill Branches.  I could pick options that boosted X or Y,  with the percentages inverted.  It was a difference of 5%,  which I'd need a stopwatch to notce the difference.  We're talking a grand total of 3 seconds in some instances. 

You're also making assumptions that one weapon won't totally outclass all the others,  most especially since this is the final game in the trilogy,  it's pretty much a lock that there'll be a super-gun.

Further,  what sense does it make at all to put points into Paragon/Renegade?  Seriously?  That's hands down the stupidest thing I've ever seen implemented in a video game.  You're going to increase your morality as you gain levels?  There's no relation at all between morality and experience,  you don't believe people should be treated nice with experience,  either you do or you do not.  It's a binary thing.  Not an experience one.

When will it be enough?  With all due respect,  if you're going to put RPG on the box,  then you'd better put an RPG in the box.  If you're going to make a TPS,  don't bother putting nonsensical stuff or irrelevant stuff in as "Skills" and expect me to be ok with it.  They're really pushing the envelope of ridiculous here,  it was already bad with the whole concept of Ammo powers ("OMG a fire round!  I don't know how to put this cylindrical object into that round hole anymore!!!"),  but trying to pass off morality as something you put skill points into takes it to a whole new low.

Never mind the fact that we've already leveled Shepherd up to max twice now,  and apparently he's got Alzheimers,  because he keeps forgetting how to put the cylindrical object into the round hole too.  As well as everything else he learned,  and apparently he completely lost his grip on his moral compass as well.

Seriously,  defend a good idea.  Heck,  defend the TPS emphasis over the RPG ones in ME2 and ME3 as a logical progression,  at least that discussion has a solid basis for arguement on both sides.

But don't tell me the nonsense is a positive.

[RoboticWater]

Gatt9 wrote...

I guess you haven't played many games outside of this console generation?

Because prior to this generation,  games were intended to challenge you,  provoke thought,  and yield satisfaction when you overcame the challenge.

It wasn't until this generation that the majority of games were designed to be so easy that you can beat them without thought or effort.

Go back a few years and you'll find games were intended to challenge you,  and keep you engaged for weeks.  Not like today's disaster where you're supposed to play for 8 hours,  finish it easily,  and toss it aside to move onto the next one as fast as possible.  This generation of games is disposable,  meant to keep you shelling out $60 as fast as you can,  not to provide you with any kind of satisfaction.  Go buy Fallout New Vegas,  that's how games used to be designed,  same with DAO.  Then compare it to ME2 or most shooters today.

There's also a reason why the gaming market is starting to slide into a crash.  Two months so far have been down 15%,  2 other months have been down as well.  COD's release saved one month.  Analysts's are starting to lean towards calling it a major event.

Disposable gaming,  and the "Everything should be a Shooter" mentality is why.

The question still remains "Is it significant?".  I could get armor that boosted my health in ME2...5%,  like I'd notice it.  It wasn't significant.  Same with the Skill Branches.  I could pick options that boosted X or Y,  with the percentages inverted.  It was a difference of 5%,  which I'd need a stopwatch to notce the difference.  We're talking a grand total of 3 seconds in some instances. 

You're also making assumptions that one weapon won't totally outclass all the others,  most especially since this is the final game in the trilogy,  it's pretty much a lock that there'll be a super-gun.

Further,  what sense does it make at all to put points into Paragon/Renegade?  Seriously?  That's hands down the stupidest thing I've ever seen implemented in a video game.  You're going to increase your morality as you gain levels?  There's no relation at all between morality and experience,  you don't believe people should be treated nice with experience,  either you do or you do not.  It's a binary thing.  Not an experience one.

When will it be enough?  With all due respect,  if you're going to put RPG on the box,  then you'd better put an RPG in the box.  If you're going to make a TPS,  don't bother putting nonsensical stuff or irrelevant stuff in as "Skills" and expect me to be ok with it.  They're really pushing the envelope of ridiculous here,  it was already bad with the whole concept of Ammo powers ("OMG a fire round!  I don't know how to put this cylindrical object into that round hole anymore!!!"),  but trying to pass off morality as something you put skill points into takes it to a whole new low.

Never mind the fact that we've already leveled Shepherd up to max twice now,  and apparently he's got Alzheimers,  because he keeps forgetting how to put the cylindrical object into the round hole too.  As well as everything else he learned,  and apparently he completely lost his grip on his moral compass as well.

Seriously,  defend a good idea.  Heck,  defend the TPS emphasis over the RPG ones in ME2 and ME3 as a logical progression,  at least that discussion has a solid basis for arguement on both sides.

But don't tell me the nonsense is a positive.

Games were much more challenging back then, but not all people think that a challenge necessarily equals fun. Games outside the console generation required little thought and was mostly dependant on run and gun, I much prefer actuall tactics. Also ME 2 took about 30hrs to beat not an 8hr then throw away. In fact ME is actually tries to make a shooter that does not fit into the COD mentality and succedes.

Have you ever seen a "super gun" in ME, because I have not and there is no reason to think that because it is the last game there will be one. Investing in para/rene is like investing in speech (or whatever the persuade is) in Fallout, the reason both morality and persuade are combined is because they just are. It also makes no sense to think that a TPS should not have skills and what not; which is better X or X+1 you always have the X and if you want you can enjoy the +1. Lastly, I dont know about you but dying would probably screw with my mind, I might just forget everything I learned in the past few weeks. 

Modifié par BlahDog, 28 juin 2011 - 03:52 .