220 réponses à ce sujet

[LiquidGrape]

"Roleplaying against the Alliance?"

...Bow-chicka-bow-wow?

[Han Shot First]

strive wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...
That might make sense if the protagonist could be any species, and your character was a Turian or a Batarian.

But I think it makes little sense for a human to want his own species to get hammered by the Reapers.

So if you had a for sure 100% rout of the Reapers, but it required crippling the Alliance, you wouldn't do it?

No.

Or at least not if there was another option. Of course if the only way to defeat the Reapers is for humanity to be crippled, you don't have a choice buit to take that option. But that isn't really what this thread is about. This thread is about wanting the Alliance to be destroyed. There is a big difference between allowing the Reapers to hammer the Alliance intentionally so it can be overthrown, and allowing the Alliance to get hammered reluctantly, because there are no other options.

Even if my Shepard hated the Alliance, how does the Reaper attack weaken the Alliance to such a degree that it collapses, without also causing massive damage to human infrastructure, and appalling casualties to both the military, and civilians? Allowing that to happen is not only treason to the Alliance, but treason to your own species.
How is that accomplished without crippling human power in the galaxy, and putting our species on par with the Quarians?

But it is a bit of a mute point because my Shepard is loyal to the Alliance. For every Udina, there is a Captain Anderson or an Admiral Hackett. Power does not rest in one man in the Alliance, and it is a democratic form of government. Alliance leaders are voted out of office. So there is no need for a violent rebellion against them. You don't approve of your current leadership? Make that known in the ballot box.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 28 juin 2011 - 06:01 .

[goofyomnivore]

So you wouldn't commit treason to the Alliance, by committing treason to the Council whom the Alliance is apart of? By not ensuring galactic stability(defeating the Reapers)? I guess if you had a human only council that would make sense.

I would rather be a Quarian than dead, personally.

This is all hypothetical though.

Modifié par strive, 28 juin 2011 - 06:00 .

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I'm pretty sure you're not going to be able to roleplay as a Shepard who wants to destroy humanity.

[marshalleck]

Legbiter wrote...

Why the emo? The Arrival mission was Operation Good Start for my Shep.

[Han Shot First]

strive wrote...

So you wouldn't commit treason to the Alliance, by committing treason to the Council whom the Alliance is apart of? By not ensuring galactic stability(defeating the Reapers)? I guess if you had a human only council that would make sense.

I would rather be a Quarian than dead, personally.

This is all hypothetical though.

If the only option to defeat the Reapers was to allow humanity to take the brunt of their attack, then yes, that is what my Shepard would do. But he would do it reluctantly and only because there were no other options on the table.

But that isn't what this thread is about. This thread is about wanting the Alliance to be destroyed at any cost, and allowing the Reapers to do it.

[jlb524]

marshalleck wrote...

jlb524 wrote...
perhaps getting a choice on which other system to sacrifice in order to save Earth.

Hopefully Thessia.

It will be a choice between a few, I would imagine...to make the scale 'grander' and give the player 'big choices'...so, pick either Thessia, Palaven, Tuchanka, etc...basically the homeworld of the species you hate most.

I don't see them giving an 'Earth or...' choice though, as the whole point is to 'save teh Earths!!!'

[Sunnie]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

I'm pretty sure you're not going to be able to roleplay as a Shepard who wants to destroy humanity.

Actually, anybody can roleplay anything they want. That roleplay may not fit with the provided content and/or context and would seem/be rather OC and what not, but people can.

[jtav]

Actually I suspect the loss of Earth will be an ending, though you may have to screw up badly.

[Khran1505]

Heh, you remind me of my ex. Absolutely despises humanity and prays herself for a similiar ending to wipe out the human race in ME3.

[jlb524]

jtav wrote...

Actually I suspect the loss of Earth will be an ending, though you may have to screw up badly.

I have a feeling that will result in the 'ultimate fail' ending where the Reapers win.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Sunnie22 wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

I'm pretty sure you're not going to be able to roleplay as a Shepard who wants to destroy humanity.

Actually, anybody can roleplay anything they want. That roleplay may not fit with the provided content and/or context and would seem/be rather OC and what not, but people can.

Well, what I mean is, you can think of Shepard however you want of couse, but Shepard's reactions are probably not going to include a "Yeah! Lets destroy humanity and Earth!" response.

[goofyomnivore]

If the only option to defeat the Reapers was to allow humanity to take
the brunt of their attack, then yes, that is what my Shepard would do.
But he would do it reluctantly and only because there were no other
options on the table.

But that isn't what this thread is about.
This thread is about wanting the Alliance to be destroyed at any cost,
and allowing the Reapers to do it.

Yes I know that, and I was just asking a question based of your reply to the thread. 100% curiousity on my part -- I'm just nosey :-).

However, the thread is more about how far can you roleplay against the Alliance, or what does it mean? Jtav basically says "humanity is my most disposable resource", and jtav's motives are his/her own.

For example my idea of roleplaying against the Alliance would be, if there is important information on Kasumi's Greybox, but it would be strong evidence of treason against the Alliance. I would present it and use it at their expense.

Will we get to roleplay against them or will be railroaded sort of like Cerberus and ME2, and how far would you want to go? Jtav expresses a far extreme to one side.

Modifié par strive, 28 juin 2011 - 06:17 .

[Ieldra]

I think it's a totally valid opinion to find the Alliance not worth saving. It's even a valid opinion not to find humanity worth saving and to play - if you can - so that whenever you make a choice to either benefit another species or to benefit humanity, you choose the other species. The latter is not an option I would choose often, but yes, it makes sense to want to play so even with a human Shepard. It is very possible to be so disenchanted with your own species that their collective demise would not concern you overmuch, especially if by so doing they save others considered more worthy.

Such a scenario can even be suitably heroic. Humanity will have saved the galaxy at the cost of its own extinction. That will be remembered.

My main Shepard is moderately pro-human and wouldn't do that, but I also have a thorough cynic who might just let it come to that if possible.

But in the end, I think what it means to be able to "roleplay against the Alliance" is to be able to ally with another human faction or with the Council. You will be able to make decisions against the Alliance as the human government, and possibly even sacrifice Earth, but the only way to wipe out humanity will be the "ultimate fail" ending.

[Sylvianus]

jtav wrote...

Arcturus Shepard wrote...

jtav wrote...

You're assuming I think humanity in ME is worth saving. I'll be actively seeking out the "Earth gets destroyed" ending.

You hate the Alliance and now humanity which must mean you hate Cerberus...so who do you like? The "ah yes, reapers" council? The Batarians? Nobody at all? 

The geth and salarians, but it's closer to nobody. I'm fond of individuals, and I'm saving the galaxy for their sake, but I don't get the sense that any of the organizations are worth saving.

Want to see the earth destroyed while you're human, you want to see the alliance destroyed, and you'd rather with Cerberus  than the rest.

Clearly, I have no desire to understand your motivations. They are not those of a soldier, nor those of a healthy man. Unless you do play jerk. And that makes sense. But there is no moral legitimacy. So do not talk about " I'm protective of the individual. "

There is no honor to betray your species that you have sworn to protect by joining the army.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 28 juin 2011 - 08:38 .

[Han Shot First]

There is no honor to betray your species that you have sworn to protect by joining the army.

Pretty much.

I mean, I suppose someone could roleplay a Shepard that has a lot in common with Benedict Arnold or Harold Cole, but why would they want to?


http://en.wikipedia....iki/Harold_Cole

[Barquiel]

Sylvianus wrote...

There is no honor to betray your species that you have sworn to protect by joining the army.

Well, my Shepard no longer feels a political obligation to her species since the Alliance discharged her (that doesn't mean I want to see the earth destroyed...at least not in my "canon" playthrough:devil:)

[tobynator89]

I can easily see how a shepard can be disillusioned with humanity and develop sympathies towards other races after his/her travels and thus choose to save other civilizations on the cost of humanity.

Hell, earthborn shepard might want to see the place blown up.

[Sylvianus]

Barquiel wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

There is no honor to betray your species that you have sworn to protect by joining the army.

Well, my Shepard no longer feels a political obligation to her species since the Alliance discharged her (that doesn't mean I want to see the earth destroyed...at least not in my "canon" playthrough:devil:)

Yes, fair enough.

But it's still not healthy, if you pretend to protect " the individual " as he claimed. What a disappointment or desillusion for the government leads to wanting to destroy his own people ?

We may hate the government, ministers, military staff, politics but the soldiers like shepard, people on earth they did what ? Poor children, women and men who can no longer trust their own soldiers.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 28 juin 2011 - 08:53 .

[Sylvianus]

Han Shot First wrote...

There is no honor to betray your species that you have sworn to protect by joining the army.

Pretty much.

I mean, I suppose someone could roleplay a Shepard that has a lot in common with Benedict Arnold or Harold Cole, but why would they want to?


http://en.wikipedia....iki/Harold_Cole

Really scary, thank you for the note.

[jtav]

Certain individuals.. Not every individual. I'm thoroughly disenchanted with humanity in general ME and will always choose to benefit aliens over them and not sacrifice any more than required by the plot to save them.

[BatmanPWNS]

Well good for you bucko!
But your opinion won't matter because, wait for it, you'll be working for them!

[Father_Jerusalem]

What I don't get is that a lot of people are keen on committing genocide against other species rather than even considering sacrificing their government system....

Which is, you know, interesting to me from a sociological perspective.

"To hell with the Other, they're not Us, so they can go ahead and die."

[Zubie]

So what exactly are these "many things" that the Alliance have done so wrong anyway, other than smearing Shepard's name a bit and keeping knowledge of Reapers from the public (which is probably a good idea anyway).
They didn't abandon Shepard, they discharged him after he/she, you know...died....and then returned working for Cerberus of all people.

To top it all off Shepard goes and blows up an entire star system. What are they supposed to think?

I don't know, some people just RP some really messed up characters.

[graciegrace]

You dislike the alliance why exactly?

Because they want to punish Shephard for committing an atrocious war crime?