220 réponses à ce sujet

[Mathias]

jtav wrote...

You're assuming I think humanity in ME is worth saving. I'll be actively seeking out the "Earth gets destroyed" ending.

Ok so you dislike Cerberus and the Alliance cause you don't think they're worth saving. YET, you want to make sure the Reapers destroy Earth completely, allowing millions of innocents to die. You my boy, are WORSE than Cerberus by a mile. By 10 miles.

[Sylvianus]

easygame88 wrote...

So what exactly are these "many things" that the Alliance have done so wrong anyway, other than smearing Shepard's name a bit and keeping knowledge of Reapers from the public (which is probably a good idea anyway).
They didn't abandon Shepard, they discharged him after he/she, you know...died....and then returned working for Cerberus of all people.

To top it all off Shepard goes and blows up an entire star system. What are they supposed to think?

I don't know, some people just RP some really messed up characters.

Frankly I sometimes wonder if some are really serious when they talk about their accusations against the Alliance.

[CaptainZaysh]

@Father J: Ugh. Committing the grandest act of betrayal in human history during a war of unprecedented scale is all awesome and nuanced to you, and those in opposition are just ignorant knuckle draggers too stupid to read their Hegel? Ugh. Just...ugh.

Whomever was in charge of your moral upbringing should've worked harder.

[Sylvianus]

What I don't get is that a lot of people are keen on committing genocide
against other species rather than even considering sacrificing their
government system....

Which is, you know, interesting to me from a sociological perspective.

"To hell with the Other, they're not Us, so they can go ahead and die."

Membership has always been the strongest feeling since the birth of humanity.

Family, friends, common ideals, common social space, shared territory, political organizations, gender, race, nation, species. They are/were all a reason to fight.

And treachery was always the concept the most reviled, the most hated, the most rejected. it's more a matter of perception.

Who would you kill ? Your brother or a stranger ? Your wife or another woman ?

What hurt you the most? To be betrayed by your brother, your best friend, your wife, or a stranger ?

Who will trust someone who betrayed his blood, his people ? No one, including strangers.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 28 juin 2011 - 10:47 .

[azerSheppard]

jtav wrote...

Arcturus Shepard wrote...

jtav wrote...

You're assuming I think humanity in ME is worth saving. I'll be actively seeking out the "Earth gets destroyed" ending.

You hate the Alliance and now humanity which must mean you hate Cerberus...so who do you like? The "ah yes, reapers" council? The Batarians? Nobody at all? 

The geth and salarians, but it's closer to nobody. I'm fond of individuals, and I'm saving the galaxy for their sake, but I don't get the sense that any of the organizations are worth saving.

Bring genophage, create rebellion.
Yes i love salarians too. "When you want to multiply the problem get a salarian."

Geth(non-reaper****) seem to be the only ones worth saving. All the others can go the Prothean way.


Except maybe Asari, consensus was achieved about the boobies.

[SandTrout]

jtav wrote...

Certain individuals.. Not every individual. I'm thoroughly disenchanted with humanity in general ME and will always choose to benefit aliens over them and not sacrifice any more than required by the plot to save them.

Your premise for RPing against the interests of your own species, and, by proxy, against your own interests, is simply not a reasonable expectation as an option for Shepard.

I'm going to go ahead a guess that you've never served in the military. People that share your attitude do not typically join the military, much less prove to be a motivated enough soldier to qualify for special forces training. I am not speaking from ignorance; I have served and even the most cynical sailors I dealt with would find your stated possition repugnant.

Shepard is a special forces soldier, which means that besides raw talent and intelligence, he or she is also an extremely motivated individual. You can choose what that motivation is, within reason. You can say that Shepard is motivated by patriotic zeal for the Alliance and is 100% in support of the government. You can say that Shepard could care less about the Alliance other than it is all that stands between humanity and extinction or slavery. You can even play that Shepard just loves killing stuff.

However, your stated motivation is that of a self-loathing individual who wishes destruction of the only major force protecting his species, and therefore he wishes the destruction of himself. If you have delusions of joining an alien society, that is exactly what they are: delusions. You will always be human, no matter what, and you will never be able to truely assimilate into the culture of another species as an equal.

The only justification that you could really make for RPing Shepard this way is if you want to say that Shepard broke somewhere along the line and is now essentially mentally ill. Also, the Alliance really hasn't done anything that really justifies the kind of antipathy you've expressed, other than the fact that it is actually doing its job by advancing human interests.

[HTTP 404]

SandTrout wrote...

jtav wrote...

Certain individuals.. Not every individual. I'm thoroughly disenchanted with humanity in general ME and will always choose to benefit aliens over them and not sacrifice any more than required by the plot to save them.

Your premise for RPing against the interests of your own species, and, by proxy, against your own interests, is simply not a reasonable expectation as an option for Shepard.

I'm going to go ahead a guess that you've never served in the military. People that share your attitude do not typically join the military, much less prove to be a motivated enough soldier to qualify for special forces training. I am not speaking from ignorance; I have served and even the most cynical sailors I dealt with would find your stated possition repugnant.

Shepard is a special forces soldier, which means that besides raw talent and intelligence, he or she is also an extremely motivated individual. You can choose what that motivation is, within reason. You can say that Shepard is motivated by patriotic zeal for the Alliance and is 100% in support of the government. You can say that Shepard could care less about the Alliance other than it is all that stands between humanity and extinction or slavery. You can even play that Shepard just loves killing stuff.

However, your stated motivation is that of a self-loathing individual who wishes destruction of the only major force protecting his species, and therefore he wishes the destruction of himself. If you have delusions of joining an alien society, that is exactly what they are: delusions. You will always be human, no matter what, and you will never be able to truely assimilate into the culture of another species as an equal.

The only justification that you could really make for RPing Shepard this way is if you want to say that Shepard broke somewhere along the line and is now essentially mentally ill. Also, the Alliance really hasn't done anything that really justifies the kind of antipathy you've expressed, other than the fact that it is actually doing its job by advancing human interests.

I agree!  Shepard with mental illness would fit OP's shepard's bill (paranoia, schizophrenia, even borderline personality).... 

[Zubie]

Sylvianus wrote...

Frankly I sometimes wonder if some are really serious when they talk about their accusations against the Alliance.

People can RP they want, it's their character but the reasoning they often come up with is just absurd. I saw one person say they were done with the Alliance because they wouldn't tell them where Kaidan was before Horizon.

I mean really?

[TheMarshal]

Yeah, how do those colonies that exist outside of the Alliance protection get by? Certainly should the Alliance collapse they would simply implode or something.

[Zubie]

 Well they did get abducted by bug-like aliens and turned into goo.

[TheMarshal]

easygame88 wrote...

 Well they did get abducted by bug-like aliens and turned into goo.

Right, right...  And that Alliance protection that those folks on Horizon got.  How'd that work out?

[Zubie]

TheMarshal wrote...

easygame88 wrote...

 Well they did get abducted by bug-like aliens and turned into goo.

Right, right...  And that Alliance protection that those folks on Horizon got.  How'd that work out?

Quite frankly they are lucky they even got that. Those GUARDIAN turrets saved half the colony, as opposed to none. Seeing as they wanted nothing to do with them, and settled themselves in the Terminus Systems of all places. With Alliance protection, those guns, along with other defences, would have been set up and operational long before an attack.

Heck, are the Alliance even allowed to send routine patrols into the Terminus Systems?

Modifié par easygame88, 28 juin 2011 - 11:27 .

[Sylvianus]

Horizon did not get protection because it didn't want it. They hardly have tolerated that the alliance gives them a gun and an " ambassador " to make it work.

Terminus systems are not united, each human colony tries to survive alone. The interests of humanity don't matter in this rude region.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 28 juin 2011 - 11:27 .

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

I just don't get all the hate for the Alliance.
I mean they've got Hackett so they can't be all bad.

[Zubie]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

I just don't get all the hate for the Alliance.
I mean they've got Hackett so they can't be all bad.

Some people even hate him 

[TheMarshal]

easygame88 wrote...

Quite frankly they are lucky they even got that. Those GUARDIAN turrets saved half the colony, as opposed to none. Seeing as they wanted nothing to do with them, and settled themselves in the Terminus Systems of all places. With Alliance protection, those guns, along with other defences, would have been set up and operational long before an attack.

Heck, are the Alliance even allowed to send routine patrols into the Terminus Systems?

Well, I'd argue that Shepard saved half the colony, but the turrets that the Alliance almost finished setting up were helpful.

And I forget, was Eden Prime in the Terminus Systems?

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

easygame88 wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

I just don't get all the hate for the Alliance.
I mean they've got Hackett so they can't be all bad.

Some people even hate him 

:crying:<_<

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

TheMarshal wrote...

easygame88 wrote...

Quite frankly they are lucky they even got that. Those GUARDIAN turrets saved half the colony, as opposed to none. Seeing as they wanted nothing to do with them, and settled themselves in the Terminus Systems of all places. With Alliance protection, those guns, along with other defences, would have been set up and operational long before an attack.

Heck, are the Alliance even allowed to send routine patrols into the Terminus Systems?

Well, I'd argue that Shepard saved half the colony, but the turrets that the Alliance almost finished setting up were helpful.

And I forget, was Eden Prime in the Terminus Systems?

Eden Prime was in the Traverse.

[jtav]

I'm one of them. He sent Shepard to rescue Kenson so the Alliance could have plausible deniability and seems to have set things up so it would be the Alliance's word against Shepard's. "Go in alone" despite Shepard having a reputation for being as subtle as a krogan. Yes, he's bought Shepard time, but he also created the situation.

[Zubie]

TheMarshal wrote...

Well, I'd argue that Shepard saved half the colony, but the turrets that the Alliance almost finished setting up were helpful.

And I forget, was Eden Prime in the Terminus Systems?

Yes but without those turrets, what would Shepard have done? To me it seemed they activated them just before they got overwhelmed and then the turrets forced the collector ship to flee.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

jtav wrote...

I'm one of them. He sent Shepard to rescue Kenson so the Alliance could have plausible deniability and seems to have set things up so it would be the Alliance's word against Shepard's. "Go in alone" despite Shepard having a reputation for being as subtle as a krogan. Yes, he's bought Shepard time, but he also created the situation.

So..if he hadn't done it we'd be screwed....but since he did it he's an evil chessmaster?

[TheMarshal]

easygame88 wrote...

TheMarshal wrote...

Well, I'd argue that Shepard saved half the colony, but the turrets that the Alliance almost finished setting up were helpful.

And I forget, was Eden Prime in the Terminus Systems?

Yes but without those turrets, what would Shepard have done? To me it seemed they activated them just before they got overwhelmed and then the turrets forced the collector ship to flee.

I'm not saying the turrents weren't helpful, but the Alliance certainly weren't the ones who repelled the Collector attack.  Maybe that's why they blamed the whole thing on Cerberus and Shepard?  It's something they seem to be good at, bungling an operation and blaming Shepard for it.

[TheMarshal]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

jtav wrote...

I'm one of them. He sent Shepard to rescue Kenson so the Alliance could have plausible deniability and seems to have set things up so it would be the Alliance's word against Shepard's. "Go in alone" despite Shepard having a reputation for being as subtle as a krogan. Yes, he's bought Shepard time, but he also created the situation.

So..if he hadn't done it we'd be screwed....but since he did it he's an evil chessmaster?

You're speaking from a meta-perspective.  We know that the setup for Arrival prevented delayed the Reaper invasion.  But Hackett didn't know that when he gave Shepard the orders.  Much as I like Hackett and think he's a good guy, he totally played Shepard on this one.  He sent Shepard in knowing that if anything bad happened the blame could be placed wholly on Shepard's shoulders.

[Zubie]

What thing? And what operation did they bungle?

Honestly, Shepard was in no hurry to explain his/her actions either. In the Alliance's eyes, Shepard is working for Cerberus, their enemy.

Modifié par easygame88, 28 juin 2011 - 11:57 .

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

TheMarshal wrote...

easygame88 wrote...

TheMarshal wrote...

Well, I'd argue that Shepard saved half the colony, but the turrets that the Alliance almost finished setting up were helpful.

And I forget, was Eden Prime in the Terminus Systems?

Yes but without those turrets, what would Shepard have done? To me it seemed they activated them just before they got overwhelmed and then the turrets forced the collector ship to flee.

I'm not saying the turrents weren't helpful, but the Alliance certainly weren't the ones who repelled the Collector attack.  Maybe that's why they blamed the whole thing on Cerberus and Shepard?  It's something they seem to be good at, bungling an operation and blaming Shepard for it.

While Cerberus is just good at bungling operations...