665 réponses à ce sujet

[Bocks]

VirtualStranger wrote...

The main problem is that opponents of s/s romances for existing characters,and the rest of the game in general, is the obvious double standards.

You say that old characters becoming bisexual LI will somehow irrevocably change into something they weren't before, yet you seem to ignore that real people do this all the time.

Ok, first off, this isn't real life. It's a game. Secondly, I said this is true IF THE WRITERS handle it badly, which I have my belief that they will.

Tell me, what's the difference between someone becoming a bi LI, and automatically cooling heat sinks becoming disposable heatsinks that need to be swapped out?

One is a gameplay mechanic and a borderline retcon while the other is a dialogue option.

You claim to not want to ever be forced to see gay content if you dont want to, but you fail to see how it is for gay players to be forced to see straight content that they don't want to. (which they already are, all the time, everywhere they go) Why you don't wan't to see it, I have no Idea. You have a "I'm fine with gay people in the game, but I don't want to see it" attitude, which is very insulting.

That's because homosexuality is a minority in the world, as hard as it may be to accept. And it's insulting that I want to play the game without homosexual content for old characters? I HAVE to see this content? Well, I'd be fine with James Vega coming onto me, but not other, established characters. In those instances, it's Shepard who must activate the content, not the npc.

You are a victim of heterosexual privilidge and you don't realize it. You have been conditioned by society to only think of bigotry and discrimination in the terms of blatant rudeness, when most of the time it is much more subtle than that. "Priviledge" refers to the way society confers power from one group to another. You have lived with that priviledge all throughout your life, so you find it impossible to put yourself in the position of those who haven't.

To fix that, I'd start by reading this: http://www.cs.earlha...htprivilege.htm

I don't even know what this is. Apparently, if I have different opinions, I must fix my life.

EDIT: Actually, you know what? I've got more to say to this. You're accusing me of being anti-gay? Seriously? I've seen the worst kinds of discrimination in my life, against friends and enemies. I've grown up in a family that completely supports the human rights of people with homosexual preference. I've gone to gay marches with my friends and I've heard gay people speak about how they just want to be allowed to do whatever they want with their lives. I fully support gay marriage.

I fully support gay people. However, I don't want THEIR lifestyle in MY life. I am a straight male, ok? I am certain I would feel uncomfortable with gay content, because it's not something I want to see in my playthrough. Don't you dare assume for one moment that I do not support gay people just because I refuse to have gay content, something YOU are pushing for, in MY playthrough.

Modifié par Bocks, 28 juin 2011 - 11:25 .

[ScotGaymer]

Bocks wrote...

Tell me right now where it is that I don't agree with you.

I agree with s/s romances, all right? But I do NOT agree with the existing
characters being the ones who initiate the content in the first place.
As I have repeated countless, countless times, NOT EVERYONE WANTS TO SEE GAY CONTENT IN MASS EFFECT. It wasn't in
Mass Effect 1, It wasn't in Mass Effect 2, and if it's going to be in
Mass Effect 3, I don't want any of the existing characters to come onto
Shepard, because I like them just as they are now.

The only characters who should ever initiate gay content in Mass Effect are the
new ones, because their personalities allow that since they are still
developing characters. What I'M saying is that people have grown
attached to old characters, and some people don't ever want to see gay
content in Mass Effect at all, especially for the characters they've
come to love, which is why that content should never appear for old
characters unless the player initiates it.

If I have offended you, it was purely by mistake, and I apologize.

I completely dont agree.

On the grounds that certain characters demonstrate a certain shall we say sexual flexibility in both ME1 and ME2 (specifically Kaidan flirting with ManShep in ME1 and "losing you was like losing an arm" thing in ME2; and Jack having explicitly said she has BEEN WITH GIRLS before). Therefore it would not be massively out of the realm of possibility to have these characters "come out" as it were as admirers of the amazing Shepard in the same fashion as Tali and Garrus (though I hope they arent horrendous).

In anwer to your "some people dont want gay content" I can only say these people come in two flavours.

One: People who arent a fan of romances at all and would prefer the game to be "Gen" to borrow a FanFiction term. These people tend to think its a bit stupid to waste so much time on something that they view as frivilous; and given how bad the ME2 romances were (in general) I cant say that I blame them.
Two: Homophobic people who can't get past the "ick" factor of SS; whether they admit it or not this is what they are.

If you dont consider your self in either category but are still against gay content in the game (which wouldnt take away content for you but only add content "for us") then you are both a hypocrite. And possibly a
troll. And you still come under the second category.
You are either not homophobic and able to accept diversity and difference, accept that everyone deserves to want to be represented, to see themselves reflected in their hobbies; or you are not. There is no middle way on this.

In accordance with Category One here. Some people don't want Straight Content either; people who dont like romances in games, and people who find breedermancing a bit ick (which is just as prejudice and unfair and
wrong as the flip side).
Perhaps BW should just strip the whole lot out to avoid offending prejudice idiots everywhere then? Perhaps they should cut all black characters and all ethnic content from the game too so they dont offend the KKK?

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

What did I say that was offensive?

Please point this out. 

I have attempted to explain to you in many other threads just how you can come off as offensive and homophobic, and a little bit trollish. You have ignored me repeatedly.
At first I thought it was because I just wasnt communicating with you very well, so I kept trying across multiple threads for several days. It didnt get better, and I found myself getting increasingly offended by what you were saying in your insensitive and ignorant way.

My conclusion is that there is really no point in attempting to point out to you where and why you are being rude and offensive because you simply wont listen.

I don't know if you are; but the brief interaction I have had with you has told me that you are a troll masquerading as a reasonable person. Sorry but thats just my impression.

Modifié par FitScotGaymer, 28 juin 2011 - 12:17 .

[Tommy6860]

[ElitePinecone]

People, this is ridiculous.

Stop posting until we get some new information. It's just about impossible to juggle five threads simultaneously.

I've just read 23 pages of the most unedifying, craptacular excuse for a debate I've ever had the misfortune of coming across.

[Amratis]

ElitePinecone wrote...

People, this is ridiculous.

Stop posting until we get some new information. It's just about impossible to juggle five threads simultaneously.

I've just read 23 pages of the most unedifying, craptacular excuse for a debate I've ever had the misfortune of coming across.

This

[Rinji the Bearded]

It is getting a little ridiculous, people. We're fighting over something we know absolutely nothing about.

Maybe we should rethink our priorities a little. Romances = small part of the game, end of story.

[ScotGaymer]

We interacted in 3 threads actually not including this one.

And in those threads as I said I TRIED to tell you why I found your postings to be a bit rude and ignorant and you DIDNT listen.

So I dont see the point in making another fruitless attempt to enlighten you.

I am sorry if me saying this upsets you, but it's how I see it. I am not attempting to engage with you in any way either. I dont wish to discuss it with you because I dont see the point because you wont listen.

I will discuss with other people even if they disagree with me, if they are at least willing to listen. You havent demonstrated that to me in the interactions we have had or the threads I have seen you post in.

Nor do I wish to derail the thread by name calling.

[Rinji the Bearded]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...

It is getting a little ridiculous, people. We're fighting over something we know absolutely nothing about.

Maybe we should rethink our priorities a little. Romances = small part of the game, end of story.

It's a hot topic. To think that this will ever stop is a bit of wishful thinking.

The only time it becomes a hot topic is when a handful of butt devastated people make threads like these.   You guys would have a better time of it if you could just keep it to one thread; making all these different threads just make you look like a bunch of trolls.

[ScotGaymer]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

Once again, you dont answer my question. What am I saying that''s offensive? No one else thought this, except you.

And once again you demonstrate to me your spectacular ability to NOT LISTEN.

I am not getting into it with you. I am not engaging with you. I do not wish to derail the thread with a pointless discussion with someone who clearly WILL NOT LISTEN to what I have to say.

[Rinji the Bearded]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

It's a bit unfair to say "you guys." I haven't made a single thread on this.

I agree that it needs to be kept to one thread, though.

I am generalizing the small group of people that seems to love "talking" about this "hot topic."

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 28 juin 2011 - 12:45 .

[S.A.K]

Give this thread couple of days and it will be longer than the Miranda thread. Most of it BS.

[Rinji the Bearded]

I love civil discussions.  I don't like being a snarky ass.  I can understand your position on this issue, but I want to know if you are listening to anything we are saying at all, and not just reading it as: OMG HOMOPHOBE.  That is simply not the case.

[Roachbugg]

ElitePinecone wrote...

People, this is ridiculous.

Stop posting until we get some new information. It's just about impossible to juggle five threads simultaneously.

I've just read 23 pages of the most unedifying, craptacular excuse for a debate I've ever had the misfortune of coming across.

this

[ScotGaymer]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

All you've said was that you find my posts ignorant and offensive.

Because I dont want to get into the hows and the why fors and whatnot.

That is how I find you. I have attempted to discuss it with you elsewhere previously, and as I have said several times now. It didnt work. You didnt and dont listen.

So I am not going to say anything else because theres no bloody point.

The part about you in the original post I made was more or less off the cuff; and not really the main point of my post either. I dont want to spend time arguing with you about something that was little more than an aside.

[Rinji the Bearded]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...

I love civil discussions.  I don't like being a snarky ass.  I can understand your position on this issue, but I want to know if you are listening to anything we are saying at all, and not just reading it as: OMG HOMOPHOBE.  That is simply not the case.

And, is this to me, or anyone in general?

Let's say to anyone in general.  Is anyone taking any argument into consideration?  Us guys gunning for the s/s romances are the only ones who stand to lose this fight, what with this being the last game and all.