60 réponses à ce sujet

[Jaron Oberyn]

Sanunes wrote...

If my memory is working today Oblivion, Morowind Fallout, Fallout New Vegas all use the same base engine from Bethesda. The real test for the future of the mod community will be Skyrim, for I think Bethesda is building a new engine for it.

Back to topic, I don't think they would have a SDK for Mass Effect 3 because they haven't developed one for previous Mass Effect titles I think that will be the sign that there won't be one with Mass Effect 3, especially since Mass Effect 3 seems to be using almost the same engine as Mass Effect 2.

They don't have to develop an "SDK". UE3 comes equipped with UnrealED. All they have to do is release the tools. However, this will conflict with DLC and from what I remember a Bioware employee saying before 3rd party applications that they have weaved into the Editor.


-Polite

[Kusy]

Honestly, the "discontinuity, DLC compatibility, gimping IP" arguments are not arguments.

[marshalleck]

Mr.Kusy wrote...

Honestly, the "discontinuity, DLC compatibility, gimping IP" arguments are not arguments.

Saying someone's argument is not an argument, is in itself not an argument. 

In which case you and I both have failed to present coherent arguments. 

Rocks fall, everyone dies. 

/thread

[Jaron Oberyn]

Mr.Kusy wrote...

Honestly, the "discontinuity, DLC compatibility, gimping IP" arguments are not arguments.

Care to elaborate on that?

-Polite

[Chromie]

viverravid wrote...

Won't happen.

Pretty much no point for singleplayer (people just doing potentially embarrassing things to your highly polished game), and it's counter productive if the multiplayer rumors are true.

Successful community maps, weapons and outfits = lost opportunities to sell DLC maps, weapons and outfits.

Probably one of the dumbest things I have seen on BSN,

[raz3r]

They won't, no matter audience interest, and it's not only because of DLCs, a mod tool requires time and money, PC is just a small audience. They didn't release an SDK for DAII (they just had to copy-paste and still they didn't) so I highly doubt they will for ME3.

[Shadeart]

PoliteAssasin wrote...
Care to elaborate on that?
-Polite

Discontinuity
Before it was told that DLC could break the storyline arch making changes which would affect the sequel or simply the story - ex. making everyone survive Virmire. -

DLC compatibility
I have no idea if he's referring to the story-based-Dlc (in that case refer to the statement above) or if he refers to the fact that Bioware wouldn't sell anymore those crappy DLC such as Weapons packs, Armor pieces or visors.
 (IMO: people will keep on pirating or not playing them but since making a weapon is a matter of few days the gain is good enough to make Bioware sell them with modding)

gimping IP
Before it was said that internet is plenty of "stuff that degrades and embarasses your IP" they might be referring to that. But I have no idea.

raz3r_ wrote...

They won't, no matter audience interest, and it's not only because of DLCs, a mod tool requires time and money, PC is just a small audience. They didn't release an SDK for DAII (they just had to copy-paste and still they didn't) so I highly doubt they will for ME3.

You know, probably you are right, but I'd like a member of the ME Developer team to make an official statement saying either "We are not making this because we would lose the PC-DLC-Buyers and we don't want that" or "Yes we are high paragon and we want the community to develop awesome mod".


 Cheers,
Shade

Modifié par Shadeart, 28 juin 2011 - 05:05 .

[Jaron Oberyn]

raz3r_ wrote...

They won't, no matter audience interest, and it's not only because of DLCs, a mod tool requires time and money, PC is just a small audience. They didn't release an SDK for DAII (they just had to copy-paste and still they didn't) so I highly doubt they will for ME3.

Let me correct you on that.

1st. UnrealED is already in existence. It's the standard editor forth engine that they would be releasing, UED, not a "mod tool". Therefore, it will not require time and money.

2nd. The PC fanbase for Bioware is hardly just a small audience.


You might want to get your information straight before you go posting it as fact.


-Polite

[marshalleck]

It's true that UnrealEd already exists and was probably the main tool they used for most of the work that went into Mass Effect, but they've also added plenty of custom and third-party extensions without which it is difficult if not impossible to complete the sort of mods people in this thread are envisioning. The UDK exists and is free for anyone to download, so if it were as simple as putting the UDK up there would already be major mods in existence.

The fact is, even with a freely available UDK the most we've seen is the models used in a few machinimas and a totally UDK-unrelated method of inserting custom textures to the directx texture stream to alter in-game appearance of characters. The rest is just enabling features already present but disabled via coalesced.ini tweaks, or altering your save games.

Modifié par marshalleck, 28 juin 2011 - 05:45 .

[Jaron Oberyn]

marshalleck wrote...

It's true that UnrealEd already exists and was probably the main tool they used for most of the work that went into Mass Effect, but they've also added plenty of custom and third-party extensions without which it is difficult if not impossible to complete the sort of mods people in this thread are envisioning. The UDK exists and is free for anyone to download, so if it were as simple as putting the UDK up there would already be major mods in existence.

Exactly what I stated above. I remember hearing one of the employees say that the biggest thing prohibiting them from being able to release UED is the third party software that they've integrated into the engine. This was back when ME2 wasn't out if I remember correctly.


-Polite

Modifié par PoliteAssasin, 28 juin 2011 - 06:49 .

[Kusy]

I'll bump the thread after 2 hours, yes I will. So, my dear PoliteAssasin, I will elaborate.

Saying that a mod creating tool is not a good idea because someone can create content that would be debauching to the franchise has no actual sense to me (emphasis on last two words). They already can do it even without using third party programs, or in some cases the game does it on it's own, not to mention g-mod that can do it with absolutely ANYTHING that has extractable models Mass Effect included. Point is, only a total idiot or a compleate NERRRRRD would take a badly done mod or one that laughs at the game as something that takes away from the franchise - it's a mod, you don't download it with your game, you are not forced to play it, you are not told that it was aproved or done by anyone from BioWare anywhere - it's not part of the franchise.

You can find "fanfictions" that will describe Tali mud-wrestling with Shepard or Shepard having violent gay sex with Legion... should BioWare be blamed because they created the IP and because people have hands and keyboards to write such atrocities? 

Someone, somewhere and somehow will make fun of your favouirite franchise or will make something related that might be a horrid abomination, it is inevitable and as such is not an argument (not a valid argument if you preffer) against creating a tool that would allow it, especialy when it gives the resources to create great unofficial modifications or even expand the game's universe. As long as there's no BioWare seal on something badly made or stupid (like Mass Effect: Evolution for example) I don't understand why anyone should consider it hurting the game's universe.

Modifié par Mr.Kusy, 28 juin 2011 - 09:29 .

[javierabegazo]

Mr.Kusy wrote...

I'll bump the thread after 2 hours, yes I will. So, my dear PoliteAssasin, I will elaborate.-

-snip-

Also, I've seen some 'fanfiction' that ends up being better written than the stock story, for what that's worth.

[Jaron Oberyn]

@Mr. Kusy - let's back up a little bit there. I never said it would ruin the franchise. Where did you get that idea from? While not everyone will be able to utilize the tools properly, which is unfortunate, there are many talented people who know how to successfully mod the game give the means to do so. I started out modding myself 7 years ago. I have nothing against modding, I'm simply saying that bioware's not likely to do it because of certain 3rd party restrictions, and for business reasons. Not many people are going to put up money for a costume pack if someone in the community can do one just as good, if not better

@Javier - I totally agree. I've seen it many times, and not just in fan fiction, but also actual environments, characters, or weapons that look so much better than the stock assets.


-Polite

[Bogsnot1]

Modding will occur in ME3. Just like piracy, any attempts to prevent it will be circumvented.
To quote our good mate Harby;

You have failed, we will find another way.

[Brenon Holmes]

marshalleck wrote...

You can go get the UDK right now for free if you want it, from Epic (the company that develops Unreal engine). If Bioware wanted to release all their custom tools, they could do so. They won't though, because they've said modding is not something they ever plan to support with Mass Effect. 

It's mainly that it's a huge amount of work...

The way that a lot of our tools are set up, they aren't portable to something you could easily use at home. A lot of our integrated processes require databases to be hooked up, and a bunch of the tools are hardcoded to use specific internal servers. It's sadly not as simple as just taking what we have and handing it over. We'd probably have to make some rather extensive modifications...

Additionally (and I know some people will say: "Who cares!"), we put up with a fair amount of rough edges from our tools - but for an actual release of a set of modding tools to the community, we'd want to put some work in to make it a somewhat easier experience than it might be right now.

So, given all of that... it's not really something that's very likely. Sorry. 

Modifié par Brenon Holmes, 29 juin 2011 - 06:53 .

[Fredvdp]

Would it be easy to release a tool that can alter textures and nothing more? Both Mass Effect 1 and 2 suffer from low resolution textures and while Jean-Luc from this forum has made some Texmod files, Texmod isn't the most stable software.

The only other thing I wanted to mod for ME2 were the horrible user interface and lack of menu shortcuts (not possible with ini tweaks). For now I'm just hoping this will be fixed in ME3 and won't require mods.

[Blze001]

Brenon Holmes wrote...
So, given all of that... it's not really something that's very likely. Sorry. 

Theoretically, couldn't the Unreal Development Kit be used to mod ME? Might be easier to add hooks for a pre-existing SDK rather than make a stand alone one.

[Beerfish]

Tis a pity, you'd see some tremendous modules/quests from the community of a sci fi game like ME.

[Shadeart]

So sad...

[Mixon]

yeah, Valve gave some kind of utilits to make maps, models, scripts, etc... that were realy fan. And game become more popular cuz of fan mods, maps, etc...

[Greenlock]

Brenon Holmes wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

You can go get the UDK right now for free if you want it, from Epic (the company that develops Unreal engine). If Bioware wanted to release all their custom tools, they could do so. They won't though, because they've said modding is not something they ever plan to support with Mass Effect. 

It's mainly that it's a huge amount of work...

The way that a lot of our tools are set up, they aren't portable to something you could easily use at home. A lot of our integrated processes require databases to be hooked up, and a bunch of the tools are hardcoded to use specific internal servers. It's sadly not as simple as just taking what we have and handing it over. We'd probably have to make some rather extensive modifications...

Additionally (and I know some people will say: "Who cares!"), we put up with a fair amount of rough edges from our tools - but for an actual release of a set of modding tools to the community, we'd want to put some work in to make it a somewhat easier experience than it might be right now.

So, given all of that... it's not really something that's very likely. Sorry. 

well...make the modding tools into a DLC...or an expansion pack...and alot of the ppl who mod games...well we are programers ourselfs...we can deal with a few rough edges..
btw theres some speculating that you wont release modding tools so you can be able to sell more DLC content like additional missions and stuff...

[Shadeart]

What greenlock says seems a good compromise: we pay for a SDK as if it is a DLC and we get to mod our favourite game - no doubt that you can keep selling DLCs on XboxLive and PSN (if not hacked).

[marshalleck]

I can see why it's not something they're looking at, and not just because Mr. Holmes quoted me when he posted in the thread! I remember all the trouble I had to go through to try to get the Dragon Age toolset installed, and that was a planned community release. And this isn't a flame at Bioware, I'm quite comprehending the complexity as described and to say it's "not portable" is probably a bit of an understatement.

[Shadeart]

Anyway even if they don't release a tool (looking at stalker) there are great mods anyway. The comes with a file (called fsgame.ltx) which can be edited and lead you to create a "gamedata" folder that got priority in the loading order - this means you unpack parts of the game (textures, meshes, bla bla) and you are able to create them are get the game loadin' them.

Here you can take a look:
StalkerFilefront - where you can find almost everymod
ModDB list
or just google Stalker mod to see what I mean.

If they do not want to give us a tool at least make us able to do something like this without using inis editor or TexMod.

[raz3r]

Brenon Holmes wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

You can go get the UDK right now for free if you want it, from Epic (the company that develops Unreal engine). If Bioware wanted to release all their custom tools, they could do so. They won't though, because they've said modding is not something they ever plan to support with Mass Effect. 

It's mainly that it's a huge amount of work...

The way that a lot of our tools are set up, they aren't portable to something you could easily use at home. A lot of our integrated processes require databases to be hooked up, and a bunch of the tools are hardcoded to use specific internal servers. It's sadly not as simple as just taking what we have and handing it over. We'd probably have to make some rather extensive modifications...

Additionally (and I know some people will say: "Who cares!"), we put up with a fair amount of rough edges from our tools - but for an actual release of a set of modding tools to the community, we'd want to put some work in to make it a somewhat easier experience than it might be right now.

So, given all of that... it's not really something that's very likely. Sorry. 

The tool doesn't have to be easy, keep in mind that there are people out there that can handle impossible tool and still create amazing stuffs. You should know PC gamers, passion makes better things than money. Sometimes I have the feeling you guys underestimate indie devs (not just you as Bioware, I mean almost everyone). I don't expect a tool to be any easy, in fact I like challenges and if I start building mods is because I want to improve my skill in gaming programming.

Modifié par raz3r_, 30 juin 2011 - 05:14 .