75 réponses à ce sujet

[Commander Shep4rd]

I think loot should DEFINETLY return.

[Ahglock]

Sylvianus wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

I don't agree.

It has to do how it affects the gameplay combat. Heavy armors are with high defensive and if defence comes too high, cover based gameplay lose all it's point. Unless the different is minimal, but i don't think that's asked here?

I don't know. All I ask is that a real difference is translated  in the statistics, in combat and in aesthetics. That's the rp. That's the rpg. What we are looking for before the fight and during the fight.

Normally the heavy armor is made to slow the movement but gives run more defensive fields. I do not see how covert would lose its interest just because to be better equipped or protected than others.

In any case, I welcome any positive and negative point, which would be part of a choice assumed of armor.

I agree with this.  In ME2 they could have removed all the mods because they didn't really do anything.  Yeah sure, the heavy weapon ammo was cool in that it let you hit the 2 cain shot level so the mini-reaper was a little less lame.  But other than that they were worthless.  Having real differences in armor through types, mods etc. would add to the game.  I'd much rather have the different armor types be slightly unbalanced but have the options than have no real options at all. 

[ThePatriot101]

Sylvianus wrote...

shumworld wrote...

I'm really against it. The ME2 concept on armors was a fun idea when customizing your Shepard. If you want a Shep in lighter armor, then customize the armor with lighter parts.

And quality of armor ? In m2, we choose objects based on their effectiveness in relation to our class. Each object has its priorities, its effectiveness in a field, not necessarily the one intended by the player.

Why the player should sacrifice the effectiveness of his armor just to be in light armor ?

It's not fair, and in any case show only the structure of a medium armor continue to make believe that the choice is reduced.

It is fair.  By definition, Light Armor cannot provide the same defensive benefits as Medium Armor or Heavy Armor.  In real life wearing simply a tactical vest doesn't not provide the same protection as a bulletproof vest or a full set of riot gear.  If one is to pick Light Armor over Medium or Heavy (assuming there was a choice), they are sacrificing the protection those other armors have.

Otherwise, there would be no point to distinguishing between Light, Medium, and Heavy Armor.  Then it would just be picking between "spandex" armor and "modern medieval" armor.

[Raxxman]

Lumikki wrote...

RPG game?

Combat side is TPS, not RPG. Thats' the point.

So, point been be careful how much RPG customation affects combat side, because it can destroy the TPS combat side very easyly. Same what happen in ME1. While I support increase RPG customation as much as possible, I don't support it to end of destroying TPS combat.

RPG isn't a combat system. All RPG games either have TBS, RTS, or action (FPS, TPS) or some other kind of system to display combat. The RP element is generally that you have the ability to talor your characters skill set so he/she can tackle any combat problem in a specific way.

Nothing you said really adds anything to imbalances in gameplay. Unless you're thinking about min-maxing, at which point the suggestion would be, don't min max if it pisses you off, I rarely do, and breeze through games such as ME2 on insanity with 'sub optimal' setups.

[Veex]

I really like the piece meal approach to the armor system, just needs to be more robust in my opinion.

[Lumikki]

Raxxman wrote...

Nothing you said really adds anything to imbalances in gameplay.

Because you have no clue what I was even talking about.

Unless you're thinking about min-maxing, at which point the suggestion would be, don't min max if it pisses you off, I rarely do, and breeze through games such as ME2 on insanity with 'sub optimal' setups.

Nope, I wasn't talking min max gameplay. I was talking the armors defence affecting to combat balance as changing nature of combat it self.

If you want extreme example, think person made from glass going into combat, even one hit from enemy would kill him. What does that person gonna do, stay behind cover as much as possible, because his defence is very low. Now think total opposite extreme situation, like superman, who's defence is very high. Does he stay behind cover avoiding been hit, no because he doesn't have to. High defence allows him to stay open and do combat while enemy shoot at him. These two different extreme examples show how the combat balance and players behavior is changed by just defence.

Point been if we have light, medium and heavy armor with too big differences, they cause hole combat style to change totally between them. Light armor would be forced to stay in cover, while heavy armor person can stay open and play like rambo.

TPS gameplay is cover based gameplay as avoiding been hit, while RPG combat is basicly offence vs defence gameplay, not avoiding been hit, but using armor defence to reduse effect of enemy hits.

Modifié par Lumikki, 28 juin 2011 - 05:15 .

[Obro]

People really need to start using the god damn GRID inventory again. It will fu*king work on consoles to.

[Sylvianus]

ThePatriot101 wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

shumworld wrote...

I'm really against it. The ME2 concept on armors was a fun idea when customizing your Shepard. If you want a Shep in lighter armor, then customize the armor with lighter parts.

And quality of armor ? In m2, we choose objects based on their effectiveness in relation to our class. Each object has its priorities, its effectiveness in a field, not necessarily the one intended by the player.

Why the player should sacrifice the effectiveness of his armor just to be in light armor ?

It's not fair, and in any case show only the structure of a medium armor continue to make believe that the choice is reduced.

It is fair.  By definition, Light Armor cannot provide the same defensive benefits as Medium Armor or Heavy Armor.  In real life wearing simply a tactical vest doesn't not provide the same protection as a bulletproof vest or a full set of riot gear.  If one is to pick Light Armor over Medium or Heavy (assuming there was a choice), they are sacrificing the protection those other armors have.

Otherwise, there would be no point to distinguishing between Light, Medium, and Heavy Armor.  Then it would just be picking between "spandex" armor and "modern medieval" armor.

But I agree with you. I meant that the engineer for example,  simply to resemble  in light armor as advocated the op, is expected to reject pieces designed for the engineer, for example for other that could be only effective with the adept.

There should be light armor, we shouldn't need to adapt to this lack of choice to the detriment of this possibility. That's what i say. Yes the light armor must be under protection, we support both this.

The biotics are more effective in light armor, we must make it possible and consistent. For now Bioware hasn't  even  shown anything for M3 though I trust them.

But see all the time Shepard in N7 armor  makes me think that we will have the same all the time, with just different pieces, as in M2.
What would really be unfortunate. <_<

The customization was one of the biggest flaws in Mass Effect 2,  repair it properly. Let's not neglect again the little details and don't do the same mistakes as in DA2.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 28 juin 2011 - 08:24 .

[Phaedon]

Daiyus wrote...

Chunkier suits would be good for true "in your face" type people. Can we get some Light Armour for more agile, tactical people too? Like in ME1:

All praise space plastic and space fabric that deflects bullets.

But say no to space leather, because it's evil and malevolent.

Modifié par Phaedon, 28 juin 2011 - 08:23 .

[Fixers0]

Phaedon wrote...

Daiyus wrote...

Chunkier suits would be good for true "in your face" type people. Can we get some Light Armour for more agile, tactical people too? Like in ME1:

All praise space plastic and space fabric that deflects bullets.

But say no to space leather, because it's evil and malevolent.

There is something called shields and Kevlar.

Catsuits have neither.

[Sylvianus]

Nothing prevents the light armor to possess powerful shields. It would be very interesting for an engineer or an adept.

[Phaedon]

Fixers0 wrote...
There is something called shields and Kevlar.

Catsuits have neither.

Plastic kevlar

and suddenly biotic barriers never existed


And anything made of leather is a catsuit. 

Modifié par Phaedon, 28 juin 2011 - 08:45 .

[Fixers0]

Phaedon wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...
There is something called shields and Kevlar.

Catsuits have neither.

Plastic kevlar

and suddenly biotic barriers never existed


And anything made of leather is a catsuit. 

Yeah, Kevlar  should be a decent defence against projectiles,

And last time i checked Miranda uses shields even though there is no visable generator on her clothing nor do Kinetic barriers have the ability to hold an atmosphere, they just project against fast moving objects.

And if Jack, or anyone without actual armor was using A Biotic barrier to protect that would be fine, but if it went down, then on well placed shotgun shot should blow them away.

[Phaedon]

Barrier =/= Shield

Kevlar wouldn't work if it looked like that, let alone be able to stop a barrage of futuristic bullets.

[AdmiralCheez]

I'm all for a few special "suits" a la DLC/bonus items (only with a couple in the vanilla game this time with REMOVABLE HELMETS) because they look so goshdarn awesome and can provide wicked bonuses if the dev team does it right, but I do not think there should be three armor classes again. How about we can make our own "light" or "heavy" armor due to a large selection of swappable parts? How about the really powerful stuff has drawbacks as well as massive bonuses so that "heavier" parts work better on more defensive classes or whatever?

Screw Rubber Suit #6 (Now in Canary Yellow) and Gauntlet of +2 Nosepicking. Give me sh*t that actually does stuff in combat apart from looking cool (or incredibly stupid), give me enough options to have me sitting in front of the armor locker for three hours, and give me the power to make everything the way I like it. I want it to be my armor.

On a less serious note, we need more color/pattern options.

[Fixers0]

Phaedon wrote...

Barrier =/= Shield

Kevlar wouldn't work if it looked like that, let alone be able to stop a barrage of futuristic bullets.

Do you know the proportion of bullets in mass effect 2? the codex says they are still metal slugs.

A kinetic barrier isn't the same as a Biotic barrier, they might function similair but they are different, i take all my information about them from the codex, since there isn't a entry about biotic barries we don't know it's proportions.

Really, were are you getting this?

[Raxxman]

Lumikki wrote...

Raxxman wrote...



Nothing you said really adds anything to imbalances in gameplay.

Because you have no clue what I was even talking about.

Actually I do, you just have the apparent lack of the ability to differentiate
between conjecture and evidence. Your line of reasoning relies entirely on the
former, even if the latter counters the basic fundamentals.

Nope, I wasn't talking min max gameplay. I was talking the armors defence
affecting to combat balance as changing nature of combat it self.



If you want extreme example, think person made from glass going into combat,
even one hit from enemy would kill him. What does that person gonna do, stay
behind cover as much as possible, because his defence is very low. Now think
total opposite extreme situation, like superman, who's defence is very high.
Does he stay behind cover avoiding been hit, no because he doesn't have to.
High defence allows him to stay open and do combat while enemy shoot at him.
These two different extreme examples show how the combat balance and players
behavior is changed by just defence.

This is completely pointless.

Point been if we have light, medium and heavy armor with too big differences,
they cause hole combat style to change totally between them. Light armor would
be forced to stay in cover, while heavy armor person can stay open and play
like rambo.

Pure conjecture on your part, consider that; A. heavy armour didn't allow
you to do this in ME1 anymore than Med or Light did, and B. certain classes
like the Vanguard can Rambo around ME2 without heavy armour bonuses anyhow.
Evidence of how ME generally addresses armour in relation weighs against your
oppinon. Which is no more than doomsaying.

TPS gameplay is cover based gameplay as avoiding been hit, while RPG combat is
basicly offence vs defence gameplay, not avoiding been hit, but using armor
defence to reduse effect of enemy hits.

One again. complete lack of understanding about what RPG means. RPG
doesn't define combat, combat systems define combat. Be them twitched based,
chance based, strategy based, real time, turn based, simultaneous turn based or
what. While it's true that a fair number of old school RPGs employ similar turn
based combat systems, that does not mean that in order to be a RPG you're
required to stick to the same system. For example try and fit your RPG combat
stratagem to Deus Ex or Diablo and you’ll get creamed. Both are by definition
RPGs.



Also the implication that shooters aren't stat based is entirely false. Stats
play a huge part in shooters, are you going to try and argue that bad company
doesn't have a flak jacket option or that COD doesn't have perks to increase survivability?



I mean I could make an equally baseless assumption that ME3 is going to be
completely rubbish because nobody in the ME team is capable of making Belgian
waffles. It’s exactly the same baseless argument you’ve brought up, without the
faux par intellectual crud you’re hiding behind.

Modifié par Raxxman, 28 juin 2011 - 09:11 .

[Sylvianus]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

I'm all for a few special "suits" a la DLC/bonus items (only with a couple in the vanilla game this time with REMOVABLE HELMETS) because they look so goshdarn awesome and can provide wicked bonuses if the dev team does it right, but I do not think there should be three armor classes again. How about we can make our own "light" or "heavy" armor due to a large selection of swappable parts? How about the really powerful stuff has drawbacks as well as massive bonuses so that "heavier" parts work better on more defensive classes or whatever?

Screw Rubber Suit #6 (Now in Canary Yellow) and Gauntlet of +2 Nosepicking. Give me sh*t that actually does stuff in combat apart from looking cool (or incredibly stupid), give me enough options to have me sitting in front of the armor locker for three hours, and give me the power to make everything the way I like it. I want it to be my armor.

On a less serious note, we need more color/pattern options.

If M3 provided that, I'll be very happy, but after M2 and DA2, it would be very great. But I doubt that Bioware has truly realized the importance of customization for players. :s

What would be good for M3 is that in this area there is no debate in the community. We all say, smiling " M3 is the most satisfying and most developed system of costumization. ":P

And yes, more colors / pattern option

  * Raise his hand, agreed *

Modifié par Sylvianus, 28 juin 2011 - 09:23 .

[Scorpion1O1]

Thats sick, I would wear that on Shepard's final battle.

[Scorpion1O1]

Scorpion1O1 wrote...



Thats sick, I would wear that on Shepard's final battle.

However I just realized there s no way he can see???

[Someone With Mass]

Internal sensors for the wins.

Just like the Kestrel helmet.

[Scorpion1O1]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Internal sensors for the wins.

Just like the Kestrel helmet.

ok swesome again

[Lumikki]

Raxxman wrote...

*snip*

It seem we have reach situation where more discussion with you has become pointless. End of line...

Modifié par Lumikki, 29 juin 2011 - 07:30 .

[Miroslav_s46]

I just ask for more parts, ones that look like they're medium, heavy or light and grant SIGNIFICANT bonuses according to them Heavy= protection, Light=Speed, Medium= Balance

Of course more effects are welcome

[Estelindis]

It would be good to see different armour pieces with a sleekier or heavier appearance, but I think that having different base suits representing light, medium and heavy armour would be too much work considering how much more complex the customised armour system is now.