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[Brockololly]

Yet another E3 interview with Greg Zeschuk and Ray Muzyka talking about ME3, TOR and at the 7 minute mark DA2 and the DA franchise.

Pretty much the same stuff  as the other prior E3 interviews.

A couple quotes:

Zeschuk: "We did some things that, maybe people didn't like as much. But it was actually all purposeful in that we wanted to make it more immediate with a larger sense of action..."

Muzyka: "The game has been very critically and commercially successful. Commercially successful in that it drew a lot of people into the universe. Critically successful with a lot of new fans and we want to take the feedback of the fans who loved Dragon Age Origins to heart as well."

Muzyka: "We're taking that feedback and actually trying to enact that in the downloadable content for Dragon Age 2. And for future products in the franchise, you know we're going to actually see the best of both worlds. Thats where we're aspiring to.

Mostly the same stuff as before with the annoying notion that most of DA2's problems were people who couldn't handle change but not that the problem might have been in the lackluster implementation of the change as well.

And Muzyka also seems to parrot what Laidlaw said a while back on an optimal DA game being a mix of DA2 and DAO- the "best of both worlds." Question is, what the hell do the developers consider the "best" from DAO and DA2? Cause a good chunk of the problem with DA2 was in not really recognizing the strengths of DAO and carrying those forward, IMO.

And while I know its mostly bloated PR speak, how in the world can they accurately measure what a "new fan" is but whether they enjoyed the game? I see that a lot but it makes no sense.

Modifié par Brockololly, 29 juin 2011 - 12:18 .

[John Epler]

Let us all remember that images are not considered an adequate substitute for discussion.

Thank you.

[John Epler]

Lord Coake wrote...


It's called "moron buzzword speak."  Mike is on record as outright hating RPG's and being more of a midless control-mashing CoD type, so his idea of "moving a game in the right direction" would be to give DA3's protagonist an MP5 and have him mash the trigger while bunnyhopping over crates.

I'm quite certain that Mike is not 'on record as outright hating RPG's', and as to the rest of your post - if you'd like to participate in the discussion in a rational fashion, please feel free to do so. If all you're interested in is hyperbole and vitriol, then I would suggest taking a step back from the thread. Thank you.

[John Epler]

Feraele wrote...

alex90c wrote...

When Bioware in these little interviews repeatedly blame people who dislike the game for not being able to handle the "innovations" and they "wanted a second Origins" despite people saying this is absolute BS on the forum and it was simply because they thought the game itself sucked, it really does make you wonder whether they're even paying attention to what we say.

I think they are avoiding what we say..ignoring us to be blunt.    They will continue to do things their way (of course..due to budget and orders from HQ)   and I guess think that the fans don't know what they like..that Bioware knows best and so it will go.     I can see a certain amount of that...but at the same time, taking clues from the fanbase on direction headed, what works, what doesn't work.....and discussing it amongst the dev team..wouldn't hurt.   Or would it?  

If we're ignoring you guys, we're doing an awfully poor job of it. We're still reading the forums on a regular basis, and whenever we see an opportunity to do so, we still interact with you guys. The Constructive Criticism thread is still being read, as is the review thread in this forum. We're still making sure to see what you guys liked and didn't like in DA2, as well as the reasons behind both. 

However, and I say this as a general statement - insults and vitriol are not going to get us to listen to you. Is there anything wrong with expressing your frustration at the direction DA2 went? Of course not - look to a number of posters on these forums (most of whom are on my friends list because I value their input) for examples of how you can be opposed to the direction the series went with this installment and still be constructive. However, referring to other posters (or developers) as morons, idiots, etc. - that's a quick path to being both A) banned and  ignored.

We understand that there are concerns with DA2, and we're doing what we can to address some of them. Having said that - not every concern you have will be addressed. We're not building a game by committee, and that's good, because doing so would be an impossible task that would result in a mess of a game. Certainly, there are concerns that fans have with DA2 that are near universal - but there are others that are perceived in a wildly different fashion, depending on who you speak with. And there are some concerns that aren't necessarily with the decision that was made, but rather the specifics of implementation.

In the end, we have to make the decisions ourselves. Some of them will work. Some of them won't - that's okay, that's on us. Game design is an iterative process, and if we could make a game where everyone liked every single design decision - well, I'd own no fewer than three islands shaped like my face. But we are listening.

[John Epler]

Yrkoon wrote...

He can't, no.  No offense to Epler, but he just  essentially copy/pasted the the mass produced memo from the boss.  Every single active Bioware   Dev who's responded to  the  "concerns" issue on this forum has posted  exactly what you see above, almost word for word, In fact.  Laidlaw did it in his "thank you" thread  less than a month ago.  And he  couldn't elaborate  either when  asked.

I copy-pasted nothing. It's fine if you don't believe what I'm saying - that's your perogative, and I'm not going to tell you that you can't say that. However, developer participation in these forums is 100% voluntary. I don't come here and post because my bosses are telling me 'BOY, EPLER, BETTER GO THROW THE HORDES A BONE, THEY'RE GETTING FEISTY'. I post because, well, I'm passionate about what I do, and I'm passionate about the sorts of games I get to work on. I feel that our fans have a lot to say, and much of it is worth listening to. So I continue to participate in these forums, even when common sense suggests I should take a long break

As to elaborating? No, you're correct - I won't. Not because I don't have particular instances in mind, but because until final decisions are made and we're told 'this is what we're going to do going forward', I can't say 'hey everyone, we're keeping/getting rid of/massively overhauling X because people loved it/hated it/likened it to a banana split' because the moment I say anything like that, it'll be taken as the Word of God. Not to mention that, while some folks no doubt wish this weren't the case, we're all limited in what we can say publically because, hey, NDAs and other agreements that we sign when we get employed here.  But there are examples of highly divisive issues all over the forums - voiced protagonist, companion equipping, combat speed - that there's no easy 'well, THIS is the right way to handle this' solution to.

As always, the proof will be in the pudding. We're showing off some DLC at Comic Con. You can take a look, or read the reactions of others and decide if you think we're on the right track. Since it's DLC, you'll no doubt find a lot of things from DA2 that haven't changed, but you'll get to see if we've addressed some of the more notable concerns. In the end, though, it'll be up to you guys to decide whether or not that's true. As consumers, you can only vote with your wallet - and as developers, we can tell you what you want to hear until we're blue in the face, but our actions will speak louder than our words ever could.

[John Epler]

Monica83 wrote...
Oh come on Jhon we don't started this.. We costantly called "people that don't accept change" or "people that fear to change" and this from you bioware guys and now you come here and say stop with vitriol comments?

Sorry but i don't find any coerence in this.. Like the lies spread by your team on the marketing campaign of dragon age 2

You asking us to don't point our finger when your team is the first to do so..

Sorry but for me this "company" lost all credibility

You're responding to a post I never made, Monica. At no point did I start wagging my finger and saying 'You guys are wrong and should feel bad for being wrong'. In fact, I made a post suggesting that yes, we do listen, and that we are still reading the forums and seeing what people have to say so that the response from the fans can inform our development process going forward. I did mention that people who throw around insults and vitriol are generally banned and often seen in a different light than those who are able to express their dissatisfaction in a constructive fashion.

We're human. Sorry, but there it is - if someone's telling me I'm an idiot and that they hope I get fired, I am somewhat less inclined to view the rest of their opinion with the same eye as someone who says 'I wasn't happy with DA2 for these reasons'. And frankly, I don't think this is unreasonable - civility costs you nothing. If someone is unable to express themselves without personal attacks against other posters (or, again, developers) then they aren't going to be viewed as seriously as someone who -is- able. And, yes, they will probably find themselves removed from the forums, because these forums are here for discussion. People who are not contributing to discussion aren't really adding much to the forums.

And if we've lost all credibility in your eyes? That's unfortunate, but there's really not much more I can say other than what I already have.

[John Epler]

MorrigansLove wrote...

We'll see if you actually listened in the upcoming DLC.

Which is precisely what I said previously in this thread. I can say 'we're listening, we're listening' until i'm blue in the face, but it won't be until we release new content that you'll see what that means. I'm not suggesting you just take my word for it - in fact, I've suggested exactly the opposite in this very thread.

And that will have to suffice.

[Stanley Woo]

Mr. house, xkg, please retreat to your respective corners and agree to disagree. Your sniping at each other really doesn't help this discussion. Take it to private if you need to get the last word on one another.

[Stanley Woo]

Just a reminder that we do have a Gameplay and Strategy forum in which to talk about combat tactics. Le'ts try to keep this thread on topic. Thank you.

[John Epler]

Monica83 wrote...

Weell someone likes:

Mediocre plot
Ennemy from nowhere
Reused Areas
Lack of ennemy creature variety
Lack of details on areas
Mangatard animations
Imbarassing gigglesquee of merryl (that try to be a Tali but don't have a chance)
Final fantasy look character (fernis *coff coff*)
Hentai pirates (isabela with corset and panties)
Exploding Ennemy
Herp Deeerp dialogues....

In the end is only a matter of tastes.... I don't like those things at all

I think, perhaps, you need to respect that others have different opinions than yourself and stop trying to create strawmen of position that they are not, in fact, taking. It does you a disservice and it certainly doesn't contribute to any sort of discussion.

[John Epler]

alex90c wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

Monica83 wrote...

Weell someone likes:

Mediocre plot
Ennemy from nowhere
Reused Areas
Lack of ennemy creature variety
Lack of details on areas
Mangatard animations
Imbarassing gigglesquee of merryl (that try to be a Tali but don't have a chance)
Final fantasy look character (fernis *coff coff*)
Hentai pirates (isabela with corset and panties)
Exploding Ennemy
Herp Deeerp dialogues....

In the end is only a matter of tastes.... I don't like those things at all

I think, perhaps, you need to respect that others have different opinions than yourself and stop trying to create strawmen of position that they are not, in fact, taking. It does you a disservice and it certainly doesn't contribute to any sort of discussion.

Points 2, 3, 4, 5 and 10 are not strawmen.

Everything else is more divided but people tend to be mostly unanimous in disliking Kirkwall's paratroopers, repeated dungeons, same enemies all the time, limited details and gore explosions (though they were fixed in 1.03).

No. What is a strawmen is saying 'here are these concerns with DA2, clearly by liking the game it means you like them all. That's not a position anyone has taken - there is not a single person on these forums (poster or developer) who is saying 'hey, DA2 is perfection and did absolutely nothing wrong.' This is not a position to argue against, because it's not a position anyone is taking.

By reducing those who enjoyed DA2 to this caricature, strawmanning is exactly what's going on. If you have issue with specific things they're discussing, please, feel free to talk about it! This is a discussion forum - if someone says 'hey, I liked the fixed companion appearances for X reason', address X reason and discuss that! That's good, that's constructive, and that contributes to a positive forum environment where people who liked and disliked all or parts of DA2 can have reasoned, civil discourse. But when you ascribe an indefensible position to everyone who disagrees with you, well, I don't think you're interested in discussion anymore, but rather shouting your opinion as loudly and often as possible to drown out anyone who disagrees with you.

And that's not what these forums are for. 

[John Epler]

Alright, let's cut out the bickering, please.

[Stanley Woo]

Realmzmaster wrote...
Also anything they say may be taken as a promise , fact or Word of God. Far better to remain silent.

It's kinda funny how some forumites have this double standard. On the one hand, anything said by developers and executives is "a promise, fact or Word of God." This is why people clamour for more information, more honesty, more transparency, and why they want us to make promises for next time.

On the other hand, everything we say is dishonest, lies, said only to make more money, and is a personal affront to many fans. This is why interviews are discredited, lambasted, made fun of, and attacked as being disingenuous. We are also never to be trusted.

Anyone else feel there's some kind of Catch-22 around this forum somewhere?

Maybe that is what Bioware and the good doctors should do. But then we would be accusing them of not listening to us.

Anyone else feel there's another Catch-22 around here somewhere? And you wonder why we say the things we do, the way we do.