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[Chuvvy]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Aaleel wrote...
I laughed the first time I read this, and I am laughing now

Is that really a professional review or is it a satire of somesort?

I'm sorry to say it's a serious review.  And I haven't even mentioned quotes from the video review.

the sequel takes it place among the best looking games of its generation..

Read and watch for yourself

http://www.escapistm...n-Age-II-Review

*rubs temples*

I don't know if I should laugh, or cry. So instead I'll react with an empty void of silence, very much similar to my reaction when the DA2 credits rolled.

DA2 is in no way one of the best looking games of this gen. It's not even an opinion, it just isn't. The textures are faded, if you get up close to most models it gets blurry, (and not even very close even in dialog) and then you have those low poly NPCs that would fit comfortably into Deus Ex, a game released eleven years ago. Maybe DA2 is the first game that's not flash that he's ever played and he's stunned by this new thing called "3D Modeling".

Modifié par Slidell505, 30 juin 2011 - 01:13 .

[Theagg]

Brockololly wrote...

While I often prefer the more Origins style non voiced PC, I think I've come to realize that the wishy washy middle ground of Shepard/Hawke that BioWare seems intent on pushing just isn't that appealing to me. As it seems like it just makes said characters boring- you lack the freedom (real or imagined) to give them a voice of your choosing but they're trying to still keep them like a relatively blank slate for the player to create.

I'd much rather have a more defined character like Geralt where you can choose different tones and dialogue but its Geralt the Witcher and the game reacts to that. But it also reacts much more than any other BioWare game to the choices Geralt makes. And being able to make wildly divergent choices with drastic and varying consequences is why I'm fine with Geralt as opposed to Hawke/Shepard.

Its about reactivity, not just from dialogue tones but the larger choices and consequences too. And while most BioWare games as of late lack meaningful reactivity, its especially obvious in DA2.

It truly is a pity then, if the Witcher is a superior game as far as role playing goes (with the supposed better story and all else that has been expressed by its fans) that I just cannot get into the game for one simple reason.

The combat.

It is a fully fledged action RPG, (unlike DA2) it requires button mashing in a way that DA2 never does. I do not want a game that requires me to be constantly pressing key combinations on my keyboard and mouse in order to progress through the game. Even on easy mode.

This alone kills the enjoyment for me, irrespective of how grand, how nuanced, how reactive the story might be.

Tag DA2's combat system onto the Witcher series and I might be more interested, simple as that. So in that respect, DA2 is the superior game for me.

[Lord_Valandil]

Theagg wrote...

Tag DA2's combat system onto the Witcher series and I might be more interested, simple as that. So in that respect, DA2 is the superior game for me.

Oh, please, no.
While I can respect your opinion...DA2's combat system was just awful.
And I don't want to talk about the enemy wave system.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

Theagg wrote...

Tag DA2's combat system onto the Witcher series and I might be more interested, simple as that. So in that respect, DA2 is the superior game for me.

Oh, please, no.
While I can respect your opinion...DA2's combat system was just awful.
And I don't want to talk about the enemy wave system.

Oh no, just please leave the Witcher away from that type of combat as much as possible.
It's fine to love the DA2 style, good for you. Just keep it away from the Witcher.

[upsettingshorts]

Seriously, if you want BioWare + Witcher 2 combat, just play Jade Empire.

It's pretty much the exact same, except Jade Empire has more styles.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 30 juin 2011 - 01:29 .

[Aaleel]

Slidell505 wrote...

DA2 is in no way one of the best looking games of this gen. It's not even an opinion, it just isn't. The textures are faded, if you get up close to most models it gets blurry, (and not even very close even in dialog) and then you have those low poly NPCs that would fit comfortably into Deus Ex, a game released eleven years ago. Maybe DA2 is the first game that's not flash that he's ever played and he's stunned by this new thing called "3D Modeling".

Of course not, and this picture sums up a lot of my problems with the areas in DA2.



This ugly wood pattern was pasted everywhere, and I mean everywhere.  Little detail at all.  Then the rooms were big, high ceilings and barely any furniture, as if no one really lives there.  In Origins you had bookcases, tables, chairs, they looked like real areas.

Go in a Chantry in Origins there were pews, and people actually praying in the pews.  The Chantry in DA2 just had a big open floor with no pews or anything.

[billy the squid]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Lord_Valandil wrote...

Theagg wrote...

Tag DA2's combat system onto the Witcher series and I might be more interested, simple as that. So in that respect, DA2 is the superior game for me.

Oh, please, no.
While I can respect your opinion...DA2's combat system was just awful.
And I don't want to talk about the enemy wave system.

Oh no, just please leave the Witcher away from that type of combat as much as possible.
It's fine to love the DA2 style, good for you. Just keep it away from the Witcher.

I agree keep DA2's type of combat as far from TW as possible

[Theagg]

adlocutio wrote...

Waves used to compensate for a lack of content, difficulty, or complexity, as was done in DA2, is by default a failing.  Furthermore, when waves are implemented they should expect player tactics such as repositioning to chokepoints.  But when I did this in DA2, even on nightmare, it utterly broke the difficulty.  Like an exploit.

I rarely had to use choke points to deal with waves, not even on Nightmare. I used tactical positioning and selective targeting. So I disagree with you this was a failing. But, repostioning to chokepoints is something that people used in Origins a plenty too. I can recall back in the Brecillan ruins for example (since I am replaying that part of Origins now) having to do that several times to deal with waves of undead and skeletons pouring from various rooms. Retreat to a better point and pull of small groups of the undead was the only option. And the number of times I have seen people resort to kiting more difficult foes in Origins also demonstrates how often people broke the difficulty of that game, using exploits. So DA2 isn't the only game guilty.

I'm not sure what you mean by this.  The two games play completely differently, especially on nightmare.  Origins emphasized position, whereas DA2 emphasized movement.  Whether the "core" is the same is largely immaterial.  How it was implemented is what really matters.  Nightmare in DA2 was tedious, at best, for me.  I had a very different experience in Origins.

'Tedious' is, of course a subjective desrciption not an emperical statement. I didn't feel it was tedious. We differ then.

DA2 HAS moved away from being an RPG. It is acknowledged by Bioware.  It's now an action-rpg.  No, people are not saying that PC customization is the sine qua non of roleplaying.  But customization IS necessary in order to create your own role.  And it has been long accepted that a major feature of RPGs, Bioware's in particular, is the creation and definition of a unique PC by the player.

It may be a game with action elements but its nothing like a true action RPG. The Witcher series is that (since many seem to be suggesting Dragon Age takes a lead from that) and that alone is why I cannot get into the Witcher. The combat in The Witcher is tedious, to me. Whereas I can still do pretty much everything in DA2 I could do in Origins when it comes to combat. (PC player not console) In the same way, so if it has shifted towards action RPG, its in a nuanced and subtle way that is perfectly acceptable.

[upsettingshorts]

BioWare has called every single cRPG they've ever made an "action RPG." Their own definition of the term is totally useless.  Their claiming DA2 is an action RPG is meaningless, as they called DAO the same thing.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 30 juin 2011 - 01:42 .

[Theagg]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

Theagg wrote...

Tag DA2's combat system onto the Witcher series and I might be more interested, simple as that. So in that respect, DA2 is the superior game for me.

Oh, please, no.
While I can respect your opinion...DA2's combat system was just awful.
And I don't want to talk about the enemy wave system.

Disagree, thats all I can say.

[Aaleel]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

Theagg wrote...

Tag DA2's combat system onto the Witcher series and I might be more interested, simple as that. So in that respect, DA2 is the superior game for me.

Oh, please, no.
While I can respect your opinion...DA2's combat system was just awful.
And I don't want to talk about the enemy wave system.

Yeah the combat is one of the main things that made DA2 not even fun for me to play.  The waves get old really fast especially when it's multiple waves, and pretty much EVERY fight. 

[upsettingshorts]

Waves are part of the encounter design of DA2 not the combat system.

Those are different things.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 30 juin 2011 - 01:49 .

[Theagg]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Lord_Valandil wrote...

Theagg wrote...

Tag DA2's combat system onto the Witcher series and I might be more interested, simple as that. So in that respect, DA2 is the superior game for me.

Oh, please, no.
While I can respect your opinion...DA2's combat system was just awful.
And I don't want to talk about the enemy wave system.

Oh no, just please leave the Witcher away from that type of combat as much as possible.
It's fine to love the DA2 style, good for you. Just keep it away from the Witcher.

And that's fine but don't try and sell me on The Witcher with the current combat system it has. I'm not interested because The Witcher's combat system is tedious to me.(its primarily about dexterity and responsiveness, not tactical thought.) And thats my real point. For me its how the game as a whole works out. Not the individual parts. The Witcher could be an epic Shakespearian tale for all I'm concerned but I'm not prepared to suffer that form of tedious, finger numbing combat mechanics in order to experience it.

[Aaleel]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Waves are part of the encounter design of DA2 not the combat system.

Those are different things.

Whatever you want to call it, however you want to say it.  It got old fast and was not fun to me.

Modifié par Aaleel, 30 juin 2011 - 01:53 .

[upsettingshorts]

Aaleel wrote...

Whatever you want to call it, however you want to say it.  It got old fast and was not fun to me.

I agree with you, the encounter design was very bad.

It's got little to nothing to do with the combat mechanics, however. 

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 30 juin 2011 - 01:54 .

[Aaleel]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

Whatever you want to call it, however you want to say it.  It got old fast and was not fun to me.

I agree with you, the encounter design was very bad.

It's got little to nothing to do with the combat mechanics, however. 

When I say combat I mean just fighting, and the battles with enemies in general.  

As far as actual mechanics.  All I needed changed from Origins was to add a closing move to get rid of the side stepping.  But now, I think they should find some speed between the two games.

They're also little things like the animations being way over the top.

Also I could swear that Bioware said teleportation is not permitted in the DA universe.  So how do they explain Backstab let alone Vendetta.

 

Modifié par Aaleel, 30 juin 2011 - 02:03 .

[Yrkoon]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Waves are part of the encounter design of DA2 not the combat system.

Those are different things.

BS.  they're not different things at all in this game, thanks to the way those waves come and the frequency  which they occur.      Let me give you a really obvious example:  Combat has begun, and   I've positioned my party where I want them, with my tanks up front, and my mage  at a nice safe distance,  out-of-melee range.    The  encounter is going well,  but then, Oops! more bandits fall from the ceiling, during that encounter, right on top of my mage.  That makes it part of the combat.   More than that,   It makes it part of the combat mechanics  because it happens  in every encounter, which means you have to play your mage like a melee warrior in most fights above the normal setting if you want them to survive

Modifié par Yrkoon, 30 juin 2011 - 02:09 .

[aftohsix]

Tirfan wrote...

Well, if I called you people cod-gamers (I have not) I would imagine you to be like my little brother - annoying, somewhere between 10-12 years old and on constant and extremely bad caffeine high.
You are tired of it coming from both sides.. and yet I have seen that you engage people who don't like the game in a very offensive way? Okay, I don't need to understand I guess.

and edit;  Another PC Elitist here, and I'm proud of it.

I'm not sure if you understood it while you were formulating a way to rudely respond to me, but my post was meant as an olive branch to critics of Dragon Age 2.

I have just one question for you.

The overarching theme of many of the critic's posts in this thread is pretty much that "PC is the best." and that by trying to appeal to the "COD crowd" (which many of you clearly see as the lowest common denominator of gaming) Bioware ruined Dragon Age and made a game for stupid people.

How is it offensive to tell those people that by expressing those opinions in the manner in which they're expressing them makes them seem elitist and rude?

Yeah, you don't need to understand because you clearly didn't.

and edit; It's stupid to be proud of being a PC elitist, just as it's stupid to be a Sony fanboy, an X-box or a Nintendo junkie.  By refusing to accept the strengths that a variety of platforms bring to the gaming industry you make it clear you have no idea just how badly the industry would stagnate without competition forcing innovation.  Oops there's that word again.

Modifié par aftohsix, 30 juin 2011 - 02:04 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Theagg wrote...
And that's fine but don't try and sell me on The Witcher with the current combat system it has.

I am not sure anyone tried or even cares to try and sell it to you.

And I disagree about it not having tactics, I'd say quite the contrary, but I am not interested in this discussion.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 30 juin 2011 - 02:04 .

[Theagg]

Aaleel wrote...

Slidell505 wrote...

DA2 is in no way one of the best looking games of this gen. It's not even an opinion, it just isn't. The textures are faded, if you get up close to most models it gets blurry, (and not even very close even in dialog) and then you have those low poly NPCs that would fit comfortably into Deus Ex, a game released eleven years ago. Maybe DA2 is the first game that's not flash that he's ever played and he's stunned by this new thing called "3D Modeling".

Of course not, and this picture sums up a lot of my problems with the areas in DA2.



This ugly wood pattern was pasted everywhere, and I mean everywhere.  Little detail at all.  Then the rooms were big, high ceilings and barely any furniture, as if no one really lives there.  In Origins you had bookcases, tables, chairs, they looked like real areas.

Go in a Chantry in Origins there were pews, and people actually praying in the pews.  The Chantry in DA2 just had a big open floor with no pews or anything.

My answer to this would be go back and take a look at some of the room designs in Baldurs Gate. And the repetitive textures therein. And indeed throughout the game Then see if you apply the same kind of judgemental quality to that game. Can you go back and play Baldurs Gate and make the claim it is a worse game than Origins because its graphics are not on a par with Origins ?

Its a fair analogy not least since KoP has also stated elsewhere (when someone was comparing the bland and lifeless facial animations in The Witcher 2 with those of DA2) that he himself is less concerned about graphics and more about the story.

Which is how it should be.

[upsettingshorts]

Yrkoon wrote...

BS.  they're not different things at all in this game, thanks to the way those waves come.      Let me give you a really obvious example:  Combat has begun, and   I've positioned my party where I want them, with my tanks up front, and my mage  at a nice safe distance,  out-of-melee range.    The  encounter is going well,  but then, Oops! more bandits fall from the ceiling, during that encounter, right on top of my mage.  That make it part of the combat, period.  And all the silly wordplay in the world doesn't change that fact.

It's not my fault you can't follow along.  It isn't "silly wordplay."  There is a such thing as encounter design. 

The encounter design in Dragon Age 2 is bad, and is in the example you state.  I'm not even attempting to deny this.

Yet you didn't even mention a single aspect of combat mechanics in your example.  An example of combat mechanics being made worse through the encounter design would be the knockbacks chain CCing low Fortitude characters, so if you do get impossibly flanked by a drop-from-the-sky melee character they can really keep your mage out of action.

Buf if that wave doesn't appear out of nowhere, the mechanics of combat are unaltered.  Because they are different things.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 30 juin 2011 - 02:07 .

[Aaleel]

Theagg wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

Slidell505 wrote...

DA2 is in no way one of the best looking games of this gen. It's not even an opinion, it just isn't. The textures are faded, if you get up close to most models it gets blurry, (and not even very close even in dialog) and then you have those low poly NPCs that would fit comfortably into Deus Ex, a game released eleven years ago. Maybe DA2 is the first game that's not flash that he's ever played and he's stunned by this new thing called "3D Modeling".

Of course not, and this picture sums up a lot of my problems with the areas in DA2.



This ugly wood pattern was pasted everywhere, and I mean everywhere.  Little detail at all.  Then the rooms were big, high ceilings and barely any furniture, as if no one really lives there.  In Origins you had bookcases, tables, chairs, they looked like real areas.

Go in a Chantry in Origins there were pews, and people actually praying in the pews.  The Chantry in DA2 just had a big open floor with no pews or anything.

My answer to this would be go back and take a look at some of the room designs in Baldurs Gate. And the repetitive textures therein. And indeed throughout the game Then see if you apply the same kind of judgemental quality to that game. Can you go back and play Baldurs Gate and make the claim it is a worse game than Origins because its graphics are not on a par with Origins ?

Its a fair analogy not least since KoP has also stated elsewhere (when someone was comparing the bland and lifeless facial animations in The Witcher 2 with those of DA2) that he himself is less concerned about graphics and more about the story.

Which is how it should be.

That's all irrelevent.  No one is talking about graphics making a games better or worse than another.  We were talking about a quote that said DA2 takes its place among the best looking games in its generation.  I was just showing how that is completely and wholely false.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Theagg wrote...
Its a fair analogy not least since KoP has also stated elsewhere (when someone was comparing the bland and lifeless facial animations in The Witcher 2 with those of DA2) that he himself is less concerned about graphics and more about the story.

I am not really sure what I have to do with her argument.

My main criticism in regards Kirkwall is not that it looks dull, which it does (and graphics and animations are two different things), but rather that it's lifeless (when it's supposed to be an overcrowded city) and is unresponsive to what you do. Which I wouldn't mind that much if I wasn't stuck in it the whole game, across a decade. 
It would help if it tried to have something other than variations of beige for colors, but that's secondary.

And yes, that wouldn't matter anyways because I thought the story in DA2 is a mess.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 30 juin 2011 - 02:13 .

[Theagg]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Theagg wrote...
And that's fine but don't try and sell me on The Witcher with the current combat system it has.

I am not sure anyone tried or even cares to try and sell it to you.

And I disagree about it not having tactics, I'd say quite the contrary, but I am not interested in this discussion.

Not me personally but absolutely people have been 'selling' The Witcher as "the game". That's undeniable. It may have some tactics but again these are secondary to the absolute requirement that you mash buttons for most of the time in order to proceed throughout the combat. But I wasn't asking for a discussion anyway.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Theagg wrote...
It may have some tactics but again these are secondary to the absolute requirement that you mash buttons for most of the time in order to proceed throughout the combat.

Play it on hard. See what happens.