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[Gunderic]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Joy Divison wrote...
It's like I'm in a time machine talking to French generals in the 1930s who argued building a fortress on the border of Germany was a good idea...

I wonder what would be harder. Convincing them that Maginot was a bad idea? Or  that their brilliant plan to put their army in a bloody valley was stupid?

Trying to convince them that the whole thing wasn't a success, apparently.

[Travie]

adlocutio wrote...

Morroian wrote...
This seems a good place to bring up this interview with Casey Hudson on ME3:
http://www.computera...ough-decisions/

A quote on rpgs:
"People really want us to deepen the RPG aspect of the experience. We interpret that as being about the kind of intelligent decision making around how you progress. To us, the RPG experience isn't necessarily about stats and loot. It's about exploration and combat and making a good character-driven story and good progression. 

Not quite how I would define roleplaying, but I certainly appreciate them thinking along these lines, and , imho, any (well implemented) addition  to roleplaying is a welcome one.

The stats and loot are about having greater control over your character and everything she does. As long as they don't abandon these aspects completely, theres no reason not to refocus on story.

[adlocutio]

Travie wrote...

The stats and loot are about having greater control over your character and everything she does. As long as they don't abandon these aspects completely, theres no reason not to refocus on story.

I would also add that stats can serve a broader roleplaying function in defining how a character interacts with and fits in their world: Like dexterity defining how fast you move, or how quick you are to jump out of the way of bullets.  They can serve the same function as stats like height, weight, sex, etc.

[Gunderic]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Aaleel wrote...
I laughed the first time I read this, and I am laughing now

Is that really a professional review or is it a satire of somesort?

I'm sorry to say it's a serious review.  And I haven't even mentioned quotes from the video review.

the sequel takes it place among the best looking games of its generation..

Read and watch for yourself

http://www.escapistm...n-Age-II-Review

*rubs temples*

I don't know if I should laugh, or cry. So instead I'll react with an empty void of silence, very much similar to my reaction when the DA2 credits rolled.

Look at the PCGamer review first, too. 

"The best RPG of this decade? Nine more years will tell, but for now, yes."

Some of these guys are trying to sell us a can of ravioli by telling us it's a trip to Italy. 

[Shadow6773]

Have no fear folks! Our prayers will soon be answered as I have already started working on beginnings of a script for DA3.

My Epic Beginning for DA3.



Varrick: ::Wakes up:: "My god, I just had this horrible nightmare... I was trapped in this one city called Kirkwall and no matter what I did I could not escape. All the people looked totally different from how I remember them and everyone hated and attacked me; I can only imagine, because they are jealous of my sexy chest hair and suave anti dwarf demeanor. When I killed them they exploded in giant fountains of blood but it didn't matter apparently because they kept appearing from nowhere over and over! To make matters worse wherever I ran, everything looked the same! It was horrible! When I tried to talk to people and explain myself I was forced to say, yes, no, maybe, or hit on them! I tried to talk to them again and explain but they just ignored me the second time around! Its like years had passed, but nothing changed! The entire time a voice was in my head telling me not to worry about all the changes and things are just being taken in a new exciting direction! It whispered something about this being "Dragon Age 2."

Grey Warden: "Sounds awful, glad I wasn't involved in that disaster." " BTW.. what the hell is Dragon Age 2?"

__________________________

...So yeah, I can't take all the credit(sigh) my script success is largely attributed to ideas from Bioware's PR handlers. Great idea's like..."lets pretend this didn't happen" and "its not our fault, its clearly yours for not liking it!", gave me much needed inspiration. Currently, I'm sticking with "lets pretend it didn't happen" a la "denial" technique as a way of coping. Thanks Guys!

[Gunderic]

Shadow6773 wrote...

Have no fear folks! Our prayers will soon be answered as I have already started working on beginnings of a script for DA3.

My Epic Beginning for DA3.



Varrick: ::Wakes up:: "My god, I just had this horrible nightmare... I was trapped in this one city called Kirkwall and no matter what I did I could not escape. All the people looked totally different from how I remember them and everyone hated and attacked me; I can only imagine, because they are jealous of my sexy chest hair and suave anti dwarf demeanor. When I killed them they exploded in giant fountains of blood but it didn't matter apparently because they kept appearing from nowhere over and over! To make matters worse wherever I ran, everything looked the same! It was horrible! When I tried to talk to people and explain myself I was forced to say, yes, no, maybe, or hit on them! I tried to talk to them again and explain but they just ignored me the second time around! Its like years had passed, but nothing changed! The entire time a voice was in my head telling me not to worry about all the changes and things are just being taken in a new exciting direction! It whispered something about this being "Dragon Age 2."

Grey Warden: "Sounds awful, glad I wasn't involved in that disaster." " BTW.. what the hell is Dragon Age 2?"

__________________________

...So yeah, I can't take all the credit(sigh) my script success is largely attributed to ideas from Bioware's PR handlers. Great idea's like..."lets pretend this didn't happen" and "its not our fault, its clearly yours for not liking it!", gave me much needed inspiration. Currently, I'm sticking with "lets pretend it didn't happen" a la "denial" technique as a way of coping. Thanks Guys!

Sounds like Inception.

Don't forget "play on hard", "quel horreur: stages of denial" ( very ironic value ), "the reaction was the same with Origins at first!", "4chan did it!", "people are idiots", "we decide what dead means", "text is always a pretty horrible medium for..." and "consider it an added incentive to follow the rules".

imo regardless of whether or not you liked Dragon Age 2, some of BioWare's responses shouldn't be defended.

Modifié par Gunderic, 30 juin 2011 - 09:27 .

[Theagg]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Also, unlike in DA:O you cannot prevent your companions from using talents and spells in DA2.

Were we playing the same game? Because it was entirely possible to prevent companions from using talents or spells.

I guess we got the working DA2.

I am afraid not. Select one or more characters in DA2 and they'll remain passive, until you command them. Do the same in DA2 and they'll continue fighting and using talents and spells.

Sure they will, that is until their currently targeted character dies. Then they stop using tactics and stand there waiting for input from you.

If you want the currently controlled character to stop using tactics before that point, you simply command them to move off. They do this and then stop and stand there doing nothing. Yep, I have checked this numerous times and that's how it is, I'm sure it will all be revealed in my feature length video Dragon Age 2 video entitled "Hawke and co on autopilot". Or something like that.

The key point is no, once you select a character, they finish off cycling their current tactics on the current target, then stop. But this can easily be interrupted earlier. Mages stop using all non targeted spells and talents immediately. The currently selected character will immediately resume using tactics only once you select another party member. Which I suspect is actually what you're on about.

Modifié par Theagg, 30 juin 2011 - 12:28 .

[Theagg]

Filament wrote...

adlocutio wrote...

Now, obviously things like stonewall, nightmare, whatever could change how this plays out, but it does not change the fact that a huge amount of my time in DA2 combat was spent moving around rather than fighting.  Much moreso than Origins. That became tedious for me quickly.  I should mention I only played on nightmare.

I can't say I spend a huge amount of my time moving around rather than fighting in DA2, but I would say that the fact that I can move around as a tactic to avoid getting hit and the game is responsive to that as opposed to it just being futile because the enemy's going to hit me anyway, is a big plus for DA2 IMO. There was a lot of marketing BS about DA2, but as far as combat responsiveness goes, I think they lived up to that promise.

Indeed. This was one of the problems with Origins, it was supposedly trying to retain some sense of a turn based, tactical pause game whilst at the same time giving you the player the illusion you could move around the world in real time.

When it comes to combat the two don't go together. Hence you believe you can move out of harms way because the game presents you with a 'real time' 3D world but the turn based mechanic says otherwise. It says the arrow has already hit, the Ogres hurled boulder has landed on you and so on, no matter where you move to. This looked ridiculous at times. It was problematic.

So the designers opted for the solution which allows you to dodge and run out of the way, something more visually in keeping with the overwhelmingly 3D real time (with pause) feel that the game already has. Yet underneath the redesigned hood, for the most part its still your stats and equipment that determine wether or not you get hit in combat....that has little do do with movement.

[Theagg]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Theagg wrote...
Much like that yes. Not mindless rapid button pushing but the requirement to constantly undertake numerous and various key combos or single key strikes in real time to pull off moves, undertake actions and attack etc. With no true tactical pause.

This is one reason why I really dislike competitive RTS games

Ahh heck here comes that sun..

And that's perfectly fine. But I personally would try to find an expression other than "button mashing" because it does have a negative connotation to it. I am not sure it would do StarCraft justice to say it's a button masher for instance, even when top players have an Action Per Minute around 150-200.

And good morning

Yes, I should really have called it a night before it was morning. That's really screwed me up for today. Perhaps a different phrase then but one that captures the essence of what is required of the player.

For me, thats where the difference lies in the two. For all you do to set up Geralt, at its heart it comes down to a test of you the players physical response, your dexterity, and quick witted nature and nifty finger weilding as to how well you progress. Its about you physically rather than Geralt physically.

DA2 has introduced some of this with the 'dodge out of the way of boulders' ability but its still the case for most of the combat that wether or not a hit in that game connects with your character (or your character can hit an enemy) is dependant on your stats and equipment set up. Not on how agile and dexterous you are with the keyboard/mouse or controller in what is ostensibly 'real time'. Thats what I personally find tedious, others don't.

Hence why I can't really get into games like The Witcher, irrespective of what other pluses it might have. (As you should have noticed at no point did I say TW2 was a crap game)

Modifié par Theagg, 30 juin 2011 - 01:25 .

[In Exile]

Slayer299 wrote...

@In Exile - Both in general and from DAO/DA2. You mentioned the ideas DAO did get right, but you also mentioned the 3 failures (initial post) that were carried over from DAO to DA2, so what would you replace those 3 with in DA3?

I would have a reactive story in place: I'd plan enough content for 4 Acts, but instead produce 2 1/2 Acts (Act I, Act II, Epilogue Act) with lots of branching content so that even though Act II takes place in the same place, the characters, motivation, quests, starting positions, endings, etc. all vary based on your Act I decisions. (Imaging 15 +15 +5 of content for 35 hours on avg. but with 60 hrs of total content).

The protagonist would have to aspects (1) hedged. By that, I mean the situation would conspire to force you to do certain quests and have certain motivations. Then, your decisions themselves would make certain factions off-limits for you and force you into working with a particualr group irrespective of your motives. But in all cases, you would make the decisions and come up with the ideas. It would all be about empowering the protagonist to change the world instead of being an errand boy for someone else. That means a loss in possibly imagined motivations, but I think the trade-off is worth it.

I'm radically anti inventory, so I'd create a use what you can carry and character specific inventory for every character. For the tactical side of gameplay.

And finally, the story wouldn't be disjointed. Act I and Act II would flow into each other and the main quests would only be available in a certain order revealing more of the plot along the way. At the same time, the side quests would be handled much more freely, essentially tied to your location but not to anything else.

[In Exile]

IanPolaris wrote...

DAO has sold about 4million and might even break five million when all is said and done (and tha's real sales figures as in SOLD IN).

DA2 has fallen off a cliff and has set to SELL (and in Sold in) 1.3 million which means given the current climat and trends might not break 2 million.

Yet we are supposed to believe that, Dragon Age 2 was "critically successful with a lot of new fans"?

Bioware, if you are going to lie to us, please don't be this blatent about it.

-Polaris

You can easily come up with an explanation:

DA:O sold well based off Bioware's reputation, but alienated the majority of gamers that purchased it, and DA2 retained that core in pre-orders. Word of Mouth from this dedicated core continues to push new units of DA:O. Then, succesful DA2 sales to new users pushed DA:O sales over DA2's.

It's all unlikely and probably corporate doublespeak, of course, but looking at sales numbers and assuming 100% retention isn't any less silly.

[In Exile]

Brockololly wrote...
And thats a major problem I have with DA2- most of it isn't really iterative in tweaking and fixing and building off of the foundation Origins established but rather it started over for the most part and rebooted the series not only in the ME style "cinematic" presentation but in terms of what they were seemingly trying to do with things like combat.

DA2 didn't iterate off of Origins but mostly ripped up the foundation laid by Origins and tried to rebuild the foundation of DA in the same cookie cutter mold of any number of action RPGs with ME's presentation style tacked on. And apparently from what Laidlaw has said as well as the Doctors, DA2 is a more solid foundation than DAO. Yet its had a far worse reception both critically and commercially (in terms of raw sales numbers). I don't get it.

So a major problem is that DA2 isn't DA:O? I don't like to sound as if I'm snipping, but this sounds very close to what Bioware is saying publically, with the exception of your statement being more carefully worded.

You'll note you didn't say that the quality of the game was poor, or that the elements weren't executed well, but that it wasn't like DA:O.

I agree with your original point that the public claim that DA2's only problem was how it wasn't like DA:O is bad. But it sounds like you're saying the same thing.

[In Exile]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...
Pretty sure this is not a divisive issue at all. I'm actually quite certain the entire community want companion equipping. May seem like a sweeping generalisation, but i've never run into anyone who wanted the companion outfits to be completely set

Sidney. And I was one of them prior to DA2 being released and seeing how it worked.

Maria Caliban too. Probably more. Reasons like: NPCs are their own people, dress-up barbie isn't fun, etc.

[In Exile]

Yrkoon wrote...
BS.  they're not different things at all in this game, thanks to the way those waves come and the frequency  which they occur.      Let me give you a really obvious example:  Combat has begun, and   I've positioned my party where I want them, with my tanks up front, and my mage  at a nice safe distance,  out-of-melee range.    The  encounter is going well,  but then, Oops! more bandits fall from the ceiling, during that encounter, right on top of my mage.  That makes it part of the combat.   More than that,   It makes it part of the combat mechanics  because it happens  in every encounter, which means you have to play your mage like a melee warrior in most fights above the normal setting if you want them to survive

It never occured to you to just retreat?

 Not to say that wave combat doesn't suck, but I never had a problem with positioning because I learned to retreat to a chokepoint. In fact, that's what I did in DA:O originally (enemies sometimes sprung up on you out of nowhere, eg spiders or shades). Choke-points control the wave system entirely, stupid encounter design though it may be.

[In Exile]

Yrkoon wrote...
ie.  Kiting.  I don't call that  a  combat tactic.  I call that the absense of a combat tactic.   And its not a solution to the problem anyway.  Thankully, DA2's normal setting is  so brain-dead easy, you  don't have to make your mage kite for more than a few seconds before you're able to go back on the offensive with a spell.

Er... what? Why the hell is moving to a new position that's an advantage and not a disadvantage somehow cheap? Is using weapons and armour above base cheating?

[In Exile]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...
I am afraid not. Select one or more characters in DA2 and they'll remain passive, until you command them. Do the same in DA2 and they'll continue fighting and using talents and spells.

There is a magic hold button which stops the entire party.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Count me in for non companion equipping, under the caveat that there's a large diversity of equipment that reflects a) their character build and your interactions with them and narrative choices.

I'm perfectly happy with companion customisation, but in an ideal world, I'd rather have the companions do it themselves.

So I'd have the companion equipment linked to their talent trees (specifically, which ones you level up the most) so the equipment would at least be related to their skillset and party role and then modify those base armors with extra stats or variations depending on key interactions and decisions you have with them.

So, by the end, their equipment (hopefully) won't be useless from a gameplay perspective, but reflects how they've interacted with the player from a narrative perspective.

Basically, you'd have dozens of outfits to "choose from" per companion, but only see a select few based on what happens in the game.

In an ideal world.

But in reality, with an 18 month development time, I highly doubt it. Funnily enough, New Vegas implements a rudimentary version of this, with them upgrading equipment at the end of their personal quest based on the decisions you've made with them. It was a nice touch, to see Raul don a Gunslinger outfit or a Mechanic outfit (or none at all, if you're an indecisive wuss ) based on your conversations with him .

In any case, until that level of customisation - both visual and practical - has been reached, then I'm all for companion customisations, paper doll and everything.

Modifié par mrcrusty, 30 juin 2011 - 02:24 .

[RangerSG]

In Exile wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...
ie.  Kiting.  I don't call that  a  combat tactic.  I call that the absense of a combat tactic.   And its not a solution to the problem anyway.  Thankully, DA2's normal setting is  so brain-dead easy, you  don't have to make your mage kite for more than a few seconds before you're able to go back on the offensive with a spell.

Er... what? Why the hell is moving to a new position that's an advantage and not a disadvantage somehow cheap? Is using weapons and armour above base cheating?

Didn't you know? Mages are supposed to stand there in their robes and willingly let people hit them. That's "realistic."<_<

[KilrB]

RangerSG wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...
ie.  Kiting.  I don't call that  a  combat tactic.  I call that the absense of a combat tactic.   And its not a solution to the problem anyway.  Thankully, DA2's normal setting is  so brain-dead easy, you  don't have to make your mage kite for more than a few seconds before you're able to go back on the offensive with a spell.

Er... what? Why the hell is moving to a new position that's an advantage and not a disadvantage somehow cheap? Is using weapons and armour above base cheating?

Didn't you know? Mages are supposed to stand there in their robes and willingly let people hit them. That's "realistic."<_<

Some of the mages outfits do make them look like they're "into" that sort of thing ...

[Savber100]

These DLCs will be Bioware's test. Legacy better be damn good because anything short of mediocre will have me calling quits on this particular franchise.

One more chance, you hear?

[Monica83]

Honestly did you think a DLC can fix this mess?

Now what if i puchased the game? I have a bad sequel full of bugs poor of content and a mediocre storyline then:

New dlc to fix things!

So in this iphotetic reason why i should puchase DA2 only to have to pay more for DLC that turn the game in somewhat decent? i find this very stupid....

Ill keep my money for better title like i did..

[Alright-Television]

Prepare to be disappointed then.

[Frybread76]

Savber100 wrote...

These DLCs will be Bioware's test. Legacy better be damn good because anything short of mediocre will have me calling quits on this particular franchise.

One more chance, you hear?

I'm not going to buy it right away.  I want to read reviews (from users and professional reviewers I trust) before buying anything.

[Savber100]

Monica83 wrote...

Honestly did you think a DLC can fix this mess?

Now what if i puchased the game? I have a bad sequel full of bugs poor of content and a mediocre storyline then:

New dlc to fix things!

So in this iphotetic reason why i should puchase DA2 only to have to pay more for DLC that turn the game in somewhat decent? i find this very stupid....

Ill keep my money for better title like i did..

Of course not! <_<

However, the DLCs are Bioware's way of testing the waters and WILL show what direction that Laidlaw and Co. wants to take the franchise.

If it shows itself to care more about the choices and consequences, good characters and plot, STRONG emphasis on tactical combat rather than a convoluted plotline, cheesy and emo characters, and anime-styled hack-n-slash this franchise would have a chance to redeem itself with DA3.

That said, I won't be paying for this until I hear a good reaction.

Maybe a 8.5... anything lower than 8 is a no buy.

Modifié par Savber100, 30 juin 2011 - 03:25 .

[In Exile]

RangerSG wrote...

Didn't you know? Mages are supposed to stand there in their robes and willingly let people hit them. That's "realistic."<_<

I googled kiting... but kiting is about having the enemy chase after you while you basicall run in circles and have them get pelted. Just moving to a new location to funnel enemies isn't kiting. It just creates a defensive line between your tanks and the squishes.