725 réponses à ce sujet

[Monica83]

they are really different manner to design mages in a fantasy universe.. Mage in da2 are not innovative because in fact they are always with robe and staff..i writing a book an original one my mages are maybe somewhat different from this fantasy clichè...
The real problem is mage in DAO and in DA2 suffer by a Moorpg setting...If you want play a serious mage try it on baldur's gate 2

[Alright-Television]

One throwaway adventure is not capable of even half that list, and you can't suddenly pull a 180 on the DA2-combat.

[syllogi]

A Vancian magic system requiring memorization of spells isn't the only way to make spellcasting "serious" in RPGs...components, gestures, etc., can all be legitimate ways of creating a "cost" to magic that isn't necessarily tedious.

The problem seems to be that Bioware doesn't find *any* costs, or effort on the part of the player, to be worth consideration as fun elements anymore. I personally do not find pushing a button to make awesome happen rewarding. I find combat that requires strategy and critical thought to be challenging and interesting.

[Monica83]

in fact if you remember bg when you meet another mage the combat turns in a very tactical conflict... Spells counterspells... The magic in DA universe is too much streamlined

[Theagg]

In Exile wrote...

RangerSG wrote...

Didn't you know? Mages are supposed to stand there in their robes and willingly let people hit them. That's "realistic."<_<

I googled kiting... but kiting is about having the enemy chase after you while you basicall run in circles and have them get pelted. Just moving to a new location to funnel enemies isn't kiting. It just creates a defensive line between your tanks and the squishes.

Exactly and falling back to a choke point is a real world tactic in warfare.

Wiki has a decent list of the many times this tactic has been used in real wars, including, of course, the battle of Thermopylae and those Spartans. People harping on about this particular tactic being a cheat, breaking the game or a failing obviously haven't studied their warfare.

As it is, I managed most of DA2, even on nightmare, without having to fall back in this manner. But its legitmate and it is a tactic.

Wiki list for interest......http://en.wikipedia....iki/Choke_point

[Tirfan]

Well, yes, retreating and usage of choke points, did both things in both games, just at different points of the fight (DA:O pulled the enemies to traps, slowed them down and picked them off one-by-one) DA2 sometimes ran away from the enemies as they spawned on top of the ranged character so the more-hp characters could protect them, until I got bored and realized this really was not needed. (probably wasn't needed in DA:O either, but it made the fights really easy and fast..whereas in DA2 it just makes the fights last longer)

[Skaden]

Yrkoon wrote...

Beerfish wrote...
The level progression and class choices = good

class choices good?  Oh  Gods I disagree with this.

You're a warrior.  And you want to dual-wield.  Nope sorry, you can't.  You  can't use ranged weapons either.  You can only do sword & shield or 2h weapons.  and that's all.  Lets hear it for  good class choices and replayability  lol

Same with Rogues.    wanna use swords, axes or maces?   So-sorry, but no.  you can only use  2 daggers.  Or you can use bows.... but not crossbows of course,  because  that choice was removed too.     

Mages.     Don't get me started on the hackjob they did with them.    Remember the good old days of 2009, when you could be an arcane warrior?  Forget it.   Not an option anymore.  Instead,  DA2 adds more spells.... No wait, it doesn't.   it reduces the spell choices by about 30.

Remember skills like trap making, herbalism, survival and poison making?    Those are gone too.  They're replaced by....    sh*t.    they're not replaced at all,   sorry.  they're just removed.     Excuse me,  streamlined out of existance.  Not awesome-button enough I suppose.

This, in a big way

Modifié par Skaden, 30 juin 2011 - 04:36 .

[Theagg]

In Exile wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...
ie.  Kiting.  I don't call that  a  combat tactic.  I call that the absense of a combat tactic.   And its not a solution to the problem anyway.  Thankully, DA2's normal setting is  so brain-dead easy, you  don't have to make your mage kite for more than a few seconds before you're able to go back on the offensive with a spell.

Er... what? Why the hell is moving to a new position that's an advantage and not a disadvantage somehow cheap? Is using weapons and armour above base cheating?

I seriously believe that some people are of the opinion that a combat encounter should go as follows.

1] Enter the arena
2] Survey the arena 'tactically' and move to your chosen spot.
3] Stay in that spot and fight the battle from that spot until you either win or die.
4] Minor movements might be permissable but overall any major movement is 'cheating' etc.

[LiquidGrape]

Yrkoon wrote...

Mages.     Don't get me started on the hackjob they did with them.    Remember the good old days of 2009, when you could be an arcane warrior?  Forget it.   Not an option anymore.

But unless my memory is playing tricks on me, aren't Arcane Warriors wholly extinct, with the one possible exception of a mage Warden who encounters the phylactery in the Brecilian ruins?

Making that skill tree available for DA2 would have amounted to...would have amounted to...

...retcon?

Modifié par LiquidGrape, 30 juin 2011 - 05:06 .

[Frybread76]

LiquidGrape wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

Mages.     Don't get me started on the hackjob they did with them.    Remember the good old days of 2009, when you could be an arcane warrior?  Forget it.   Not an option anymore.

But unless my memory is playing tricks on me, aren't Arcane Warriors wholly extinct, with the one possible exception of a mage Warden who encounters the phylactery in the Brecilian ruins?

Making that skill tree available for DA2 would have amounted to...would have amounted to...

...retcon?

True, but DA2 already has retcons, so one more woudn't have been surprising.

[Tirfan]

Theagg wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...
ie.  Kiting.  I don't call that  a  combat tactic.  I call that the absense of a combat tactic.   And its not a solution to the problem anyway.  Thankully, DA2's normal setting is  so brain-dead easy, you  don't have to make your mage kite for more than a few seconds before you're able to go back on the offensive with a spell.

Er... what? Why the hell is moving to a new position that's an advantage and not a disadvantage somehow cheap? Is using weapons and armour above base cheating?

I seriously believe that some people are of the opinion that a combat encounter should go as follows.

1] Enter the arena
2] Survey the arena 'tactically' and move to your chosen spot.
3] Stay in that spot and fight the battle from that spot until you either win or die.
4] Minor movements might be permissable but overall any major movement is 'cheating' etc.

Partially, I would want to fill the arena with traps first, there is a reason I pull enemies with a ranged attack and want to have most of my party dish out as much damage as possible with ranged attacks before the enemies are near enough you to have a reason to switch out for melee weapons and prevent the bad-guys from getting to the squishy mages or archers. If there is a reason some assassins come from stealth and try to kill my squishies I of course approve of this as it makes the combat more interesting, or if there arrives reinforcement if the situation is one where this can be explained and done well. And with this kind of playstyle, the mages and archers do retreat (you have to be on range to shoot the bad-mooks when they are charging towards you, and move away and disperse a bit when they get too close) You could do some of this in origins, was it necessary.. no, was it fun, yes, it would have been even more fun if the encounter-design had been less crappy.

[Stanley Woo]

Just a reminder that we do have a Gameplay and Strategy forum in which to talk about combat tactics. Le'ts try to keep this thread on topic. Thank you.

[ERJAK1]

Brockololly wrote...

Yet another E3 interview with Greg Zeschuk and Ray Muzyka talking about ME3, TOR and at the 7 minute mark DA2 and the DA franchise.

Pretty much the same stuff  as the other prior E3 interviews.

A couple quotes:

Zeschuk: "We did some things that, maybe people didn't like as much. But it was actually all purposeful in that we wanted to make it more immediate with a larger sense of action..."

Muzyka: "The game has been very critically and commercially successful. Commercially successful in that it drew a lot of people into the universe. Critically successful with a lot of new fans and we want to take the feedback of the fans who loved Dragon Age Origins to heart as well."

Muzyka: "We're taking that feedback and actually trying to enact that in the downloadable content for Dragon Age 2. And for future products in the franchise, you know we're going to actually see the best of both worlds. Thats where we're aspiring to.

Mostly the same stuff as before with the annoying notion that most of DA2's problems were people who couldn't handle change but not that the problem might have been in the lackluster implementation of the change as well.

And Muzyka also seems to parrot what Laidlaw said a while back on an optimal DA game being a mix of DA2 and DAO- the "best of both worlds." Question is, what the hell do the developers consider the "best" from DAO and DA2? Cause a good chunk of the problem with DA2 was in not really recognizing the strengths of DAO and carrying those forward, IMO.

And while I know its mostly bloated PR speak, how in the world can they accurately measure what a "new fan" is but whether they enjoyed the game? I see that a lot but it makes no sense.

No offense meant to anyone but DA2 was vastly superior to DA:O. in terms of everything except the romances, those could have been a bit more fleshed out.

[Gongutza]

[/quote]

No offense meant to anyone but DA2 was vastly superior to DA:O. in terms of everything except the romances, those could have been a bit more fleshed out.

[/quote]

I loled 

[csfteeeer]

ERJAK1 wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Yet another E3 interview with Greg Zeschuk and Ray Muzyka talking about ME3, TOR and at the 7 minute mark DA2 and the DA franchise.

Pretty much the same stuff  as the other prior E3 interviews.

A couple quotes:

Zeschuk: "We did some things that, maybe people didn't like as much. But it was actually all purposeful in that we wanted to make it more immediate with a larger sense of action..."

Muzyka: "The game has been very critically and commercially successful. Commercially successful in that it drew a lot of people into the universe. Critically successful with a lot of new fans and we want to take the feedback of the fans who loved Dragon Age Origins to heart as well."

Muzyka: "We're taking that feedback and actually trying to enact that in the downloadable content for Dragon Age 2. And for future products in the franchise, you know we're going to actually see the best of both worlds. Thats where we're aspiring to.

Mostly the same stuff as before with the annoying notion that most of DA2's problems were people who couldn't handle change but not that the problem might have been in the lackluster implementation of the change as well.

And Muzyka also seems to parrot what Laidlaw said a while back on an optimal DA game being a mix of DA2 and DAO- the "best of both worlds." Question is, what the hell do the developers consider the "best" from DAO and DA2? Cause a good chunk of the problem with DA2 was in not really recognizing the strengths of DAO and carrying those forward, IMO.

And while I know its mostly bloated PR speak, how in the world can they accurately measure what a "new fan" is but whether they enjoyed the game? I see that a lot but it makes no sense.

No offense meant to anyone but DA2 was vastly superior to DA:O. in terms of everything except the romances, those could have been a bit more fleshed out.

Tell that to the reviews, user ratings, sales...
DA2 was inferior,and by the end of the year you'll see it.

[KilrB]

ERJAK1 wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Yet another E3 interview with Greg Zeschuk and Ray Muzyka talking about ME3, TOR and at the 7 minute mark DA2 and the DA franchise.

Pretty much the same stuff  as the other prior E3 interviews.

A couple quotes:

Zeschuk: "We did some things that, maybe people didn't like as much. But it was actually all purposeful in that we wanted to make it more immediate with a larger sense of action..."

Muzyka: "The game has been very critically and commercially successful. Commercially successful in that it drew a lot of people into the universe. Critically successful with a lot of new fans and we want to take the feedback of the fans who loved Dragon Age Origins to heart as well."

Muzyka: "We're taking that feedback and actually trying to enact that in the downloadable content for Dragon Age 2. And for future products in the franchise, you know we're going to actually see the best of both worlds. Thats where we're aspiring to.

Mostly the same stuff as before with the annoying notion that most of DA2's problems were people who couldn't handle change but not that the problem might have been in the lackluster implementation of the change as well.

And Muzyka also seems to parrot what Laidlaw said a while back on an optimal DA game being a mix of DA2 and DAO- the "best of both worlds." Question is, what the hell do the developers consider the "best" from DAO and DA2? Cause a good chunk of the problem with DA2 was in not really recognizing the strengths of DAO and carrying those forward, IMO.

And while I know its mostly bloated PR speak, how in the world can they accurately measure what a "new fan" is but whether they enjoyed the game? I see that a lot but it makes no sense.

No offense meant to anyone but DA2 was vastly superior to DA:O. in terms of everything except the romances, those could have been a bit more fleshed out.

No offense to you, but were that so sales and user reviews of DA2 would reflect it.

Take another look as those pard ...

[Gunderic]

LiquidGrape wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

Mages.     Don't get me started on the hackjob they did with them.    Remember the good old days of 2009, when you could be an arcane warrior?  Forget it.   Not an option anymore.

But unless my memory is playing tricks on me, aren't Arcane Warriors wholly extinct, with the one possible exception of a mage Warden who encounters the phylactery in the Brecilian ruins?

Making that skill tree available for DA2 would have amounted to...would have amounted to...

...retcon?

Modifié par Gunderic, 30 juin 2011 - 06:18 .

[alex90c]

ERJAK1 wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Yet another E3 interview with Greg Zeschuk and Ray Muzyka talking about ME3, TOR and at the 7 minute mark DA2 and the DA franchise.

Pretty much the same stuff  as the other prior E3 interviews.

A couple quotes:

Zeschuk: "We did some things that, maybe people didn't like as much. But it was actually all purposeful in that we wanted to make it more immediate with a larger sense of action..."

Muzyka: "The game has been very critically and commercially successful. Commercially successful in that it drew a lot of people into the universe. Critically successful with a lot of new fans and we want to take the feedback of the fans who loved Dragon Age Origins to heart as well."

Muzyka: "We're taking that feedback and actually trying to enact that in the downloadable content for Dragon Age 2. And for future products in the franchise, you know we're going to actually see the best of both worlds. Thats where we're aspiring to.

Mostly the same stuff as before with the annoying notion that most of DA2's problems were people who couldn't handle change but not that the problem might have been in the lackluster implementation of the change as well.

And Muzyka also seems to parrot what Laidlaw said a while back on an optimal DA game being a mix of DA2 and DAO- the "best of both worlds." Question is, what the hell do the developers consider the "best" from DAO and DA2? Cause a good chunk of the problem with DA2 was in not really recognizing the strengths of DAO and carrying those forward, IMO.

And while I know its mostly bloated PR speak, how in the world can they accurately measure what a "new fan" is but whether they enjoyed the game? I see that a lot but it makes no sense.

No offense meant to anyone but DA2 was vastly superior to DA:O. in terms of everything except the romances, those could have been a bit more fleshed out.

I know. DA2 was BUTTON AWESOME.

Man how much I love fighting wave after wave after wave after wave after wave after wave after wave after wave after wave of faceless slavers to make me feel AWESOME. the gore made it even more AWESOME.

Bioware had the best intentions at heart though. They knew exploding bodies was a heavy risk, but it pulled through.

/unconstructive lame troll off

[Realmzmaster]

Frybread76 wrote...

LiquidGrape wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

Mages.     Don't get me started on the hackjob they did with them.    Remember the good old days of 2009, when you could be an arcane warrior?  Forget it.   Not an option anymore.

But unless my memory is playing tricks on me, aren't Arcane Warriors wholly extinct, with the one possible exception of a mage Warden who encounters the phylactery in the Brecilian ruins?

Making that skill tree available for DA2 would have amounted to...would have amounted to...

...retcon?

True, but DA2 already has retcons, so one more woudn't have been surprising.

Given the timeline Arcane warrior would not be possible because the warden had not found it yet. If he/she ever finds it. So it would not be available to a mage Hawke. Gamers are already blasting DA2 for the retcons, so the arcane warrior retcon would be okay?

[Realmzmaster]

csfteeeer wrote...

ERJAK1 wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Yet another E3 interview with Greg Zeschuk and Ray Muzyka talking about ME3, TOR and at the 7 minute mark DA2 and the DA franchise.

Pretty much the same stuff  as the other prior E3 interviews.

A couple quotes:

Zeschuk: "We did some things that, maybe people didn't like as much. But it was actually all purposeful in that we wanted to make it more immediate with a larger sense of action..."

Muzyka: "The game has been very critically and commercially successful. Commercially successful in that it drew a lot of people into the universe. Critically successful with a lot of new fans and we want to take the feedback of the fans who loved Dragon Age Origins to heart as well."

Muzyka: "We're taking that feedback and actually trying to enact that in the downloadable content for Dragon Age 2. And for future products in the franchise, you know we're going to actually see the best of both worlds. Thats where we're aspiring to.

Mostly the same stuff as before with the annoying notion that most of DA2's problems were people who couldn't handle change but not that the problem might have been in the lackluster implementation of the change as well.

And Muzyka also seems to parrot what Laidlaw said a while back on an optimal DA game being a mix of DA2 and DAO- the "best of both worlds." Question is, what the hell do the developers consider the "best" from DAO and DA2? Cause a good chunk of the problem with DA2 was in not really recognizing the strengths of DAO and carrying those forward, IMO.

And while I know its mostly bloated PR speak, how in the world can they accurately measure what a "new fan" is but whether they enjoyed the game? I see that a lot but it makes no sense.

No offense meant to anyone but DA2 was vastly superior to DA:O. in terms of everything except the romances, those could have been a bit more fleshed out.

Tell that to the reviews, user ratings, sales...
DA2 was inferior,and by the end of the year you'll see it.

In his/her opinion DA2 was superior. Does not matter to him/her what the reviews, user ratings or sales say. The only point that matters to him/her or any who like DA2 is that they got their money's worth.
What you are saying may matters to EA/Bioware and those who did not like DA2.

[xkg]

Realmzmaster wrote...

csfteeeer wrote...

ERJAK1 wrote...

No offense meant to anyone but DA2 was vastly superior to DA:O. in terms of everything except the romances, those could have been a bit more fleshed out.

Tell that to the reviews, user ratings, sales...
DA2 was inferior,and by the end of the year you'll see it.

In his/her opinion DA2 was superior. Does not matter to him/her what the reviews, user ratings or sales say. The only point that matters to him/her or any who like DA2 is that they got their money's worth.
What you are saying may matters to EA/Bioware and those who did not like DA2.

And yet, it does.
http://social.biowar...87403/5#7770065

[Monica83]

Weell someone likes:

Mediocre plot
Ennemy from nowhere
Reused Areas
Lack of ennemy creature variety
Lack of details on areas
Mangatard animations
Imbarassing gigglesquee of merryl (that try to be a Tali but don't have a chance)
Final fantasy look character (fernis *coff coff*)
Hentai pirates (isabela with corset and panties)
Exploding Ennemy
Herp Deeerp dialogues....

In the end is only a matter of tastes.... I don't like those things at all

[Realmzmaster]

Monica83 wrote...

in fact if you remember bg when you meet another mage the combat turns in a very tactical conflict... Spells counterspells... The magic in DA universe is too much streamlined

Not in my BG encounters. Enemy mages were picked off by archers or fireballed  or cut down long before this happened.

[Realmzmaster]

Monica83 wrote...

Weell someone likes:

Mediocre plot
Ennemy from nowhere
Reused Areas
Lack of ennemy creature variety
Lack of details on areas
Mangatard animations
Imbarassing gigglesquee of merryl (that try to be a Tali but don't have a chance)
Final fantasy look character (fernis *coff coff*)
Hentai pirates (isabela with corset and panties)
Exploding Ennemy
Herp Deeerp dialogues....

In the end is only a matter of tastes.... I don't like those things at all

The same things which could be said about DAO (which I happen to like) except for the exploding enemies. And do not get me started on BG1 & 2 (which I happen to like) (think Boo and Minsc.)

All have what you mention. Some gamers just choose to ignore them or say they were not as glaring as DA2.

[Realmzmaster]

HTTP 404 wrote...

is it really so bad for Ray and Greg to support their employees and their product?

No it is not. In fact it is expected. The principals of the company are suppose to support their employees and products. Now how they choose to do that may be debatable.