98 réponses à ce sujet

[Berkilak]

I just hope there's a better reason than BioWare pigeonholing Cerberus into the bad guy role simply because Reapers are too huge to be battled on foot and they needed ground troops.

[Bluko]

Well I am hoping there's at least some kind of good explanation for it.

I also hope it's a little more involved then T.I.M. simply spilling the Reaper nanites on himself that were used to dehumanize Grayson. It'd be slightly better if T.I.M. actually willingly joined the Reapers in some sort of mad scheme like Saren did. Although the fact that T.I.M. and Cerberus so casually had Reaper Nanomachines lying around doesn't speak well for them taking necessary precautions.

This just further cements the idea keeping the Collector Base or letting Cerberus have it is a terrible idea. I mean basically: Collector Base Technology=Reaper Terminator Cyborgs

[SandTrout]

My guess is that TIM is playing patsy to the Reapers, but is actually preparing to double-cross them at an opportune moment.

Considering that TIM is the living sapient that has known of the Reaper threat the longest, and has expended massive amounts of resources in the fight against them, it would be one hell of a reversal to suddenly become the Reapers' best friend. Indoctrination could account for this sudden switch in allegiance, but I do not think that it is likely.

We know that TIM is probably the most cautious man in the galaxy when it comes to staying out of the line of fire, with the one notable exception of the events at the beginning of Retribution. This is noted as an anomaly by TIM at the time, so the likelihood of exposing himself to a hazardous situation again is not likely. He will, however, expend resources, human or otherwise, without qualm in order to achieve his goals.

Also, TIM and Cerberus have the most in-depth research on Reaper Indoctrination by virtue of the experiments described in Retribution. After the initial Turian raid, TIM was able to retrieve this data, though it was not revealed if or how it was ever used.

These points contribute to my conclusion that TIM has found a way to protect Cerberus Operatives from Indoctrination in spite of long-term proximity to Reapers. This would allow TIM to establish Cerberus operatives as foot-soldiers for the Reapers(possibly trading men for technology). These foot-soldiers would pretend to be the indoctrinated servants of the Reapers, including combating Shepard and Crew, while in truth they retain their free will. At some critical point, TIM will send a signal to all Cerberus operatives to turn on the Reapers, striking a surprise blow that could cripple the Reapers' war effort.

In any case, that's what I would do.

[LeVaughnX]

Let me simplify it.

Cerberus is pro-human.

Reaper is pro-reaper.

TIM acknowledges that the Reapers probably acknowledge that a HUMAN defeated a Reaper. Thus meaning they probably hold humanity at a higher place than any other specie.

TIM also suggests that the Reapers probably respect you for killing one.

Reapers obviously are motivated / affected by the death of one of their own at the hands of humanity - as they are carefully targeting them above anyone else.

Shepard tells TIM to boink his mother and pork his father - basically flipping them the big ol' bird.

TIM - in an attempt to make some form of deal says ""Hey Reapers; we give you Shepard or kill him, you leave us as the last species.""

Reapers don't really care but at the same time eradicating humanity may be more costly than its worth OR we are "unique enough" that they may want us around to become the next "Collectors" so to speak... I mean the Reapers obviously thought highly of the protheans or they wouldn't exist as the Reapers foot soldiers in ME2. Now that they are gone - Reapers need replacements.

Shepard is a thorn in the side of TIM/Reapers -- TIM Offers to capture or kill -- Reapers accept; backstab TIM somewhat -- Reapers want to manipulate humanity into a thrall -- TIM just wants human dominance -- TIM becomes Reaper like Saren -- TIM tries to backstab Reapers etc...

Its one big triangle of bullsh*t.

[Warkupo]

Nobody said TIM was indoctrinated. Shepard just said that Cerberus is indoctrinated.

TIM can be very 'charismatic'.

[Missouri Tigers]

Makes me pretty sad considering I thought that Cerberus had the best opportunity to beat the Reapers. There's no way the Citadel Council is ready for this.

[Ieldra]

redbaron76 wrote...
As we can all see as it has been stated by shepard in the E3 trailer, that cerberus is indoctrinated, so how can you say that they are not working for reapers. If they are indoctrinated they are reaper slaves there fore work for reapers.

Apparently, the "why" of it is one of the great mysteries to uncover. I would be disappointed if such a cheap and obvious thing like indoctrination was solely responsible. And after all, it's just Shepard's opinion, a working hypothesis, so to speak.

The last word on it hasn't been spoken.

[Seboist]

Ieldra2 wrote...

redbaron76 wrote...
As we can all see as it has been stated by shepard in the E3 trailer, that cerberus is indoctrinated, so how can you say that they are not working for reapers. If they are indoctrinated they are reaper slaves there fore work for reapers.

Apparently, the "why" of it is one of the great mysteries to uncover. I would be disappointed if such a cheap and obvious thing like indoctrination was solely responsible. And after all, it's just Shepard's opinion, a working hypothesis, so to speak.

The last word on it hasn't been spoken.

I'm already bummed out that we're railoaded into fighting Cerberus but if this "why" turns out to be underwhelming(ex. "we gotz indoctrinated lulz") I'm prepared to regard the game as non-canon.

[Nightdragon8]

or they just like being errand boy to a backstabbing guy. IMO Liara used the Shadowbroker stuff to blast open Cerberus. I mean considering the Shadowbroker new what suit he was wearing how often he smoked and what woman he screwed that week.

So my guess Liara used the shadowbroker stuff to try to kill TIM and TIM is taking it personally. Also the whole renegade thing doesn't Shep at the end say basicly "Cerberus now works for me"

So I think TIM would work against Shep no matter what, just for control of Cerberus

[mineralica]

Disclaimer: no way I support Cerberus or try to justify their crimes.

But... in ME1 they were presented as shadow ops which tries to cover their actions if they could. In ME2, they were presented as "intelligent bad guys" - ruthless but understanding enough to ally with person who blew up several their facilities. Inordinary enough to reconstruct said person and make him work for them with more subtle way than "control chip in the head". Secure enough to be divided on independent cells to prevent failure of entire organisation when single cell is compromised. Hell, TIM personally tells "don't hope you understand my motives"!
And what we see in ME3? Cerberus - possibly - indoctrinated. And, seeing that they'll be a 40% of enemies, major part of Cerberus got indoctrinated. Excuse me, major part of organisation _separated in independent cells_ got indoctrinated? Cerberus tries to capture or kill Shepard. Dudes, it was you who rebuilt him and let him freely fly around galaxy. Cerberus now has an own army - subtlеty what subtlety? Where's that smart guys with cruel methods we've seen in previous two games? Intelligent enemy turned into ordinary enemy. What a pity.

[nhsk]

TIM probably stroke a deal with the Reapers and wants to build a human reaper, then put Shepards mind into it and hope Shepards mind is strong enough to not become "pro-reaper" but use that power of the Reapers against the Reapers.
Why would Cerberus goons come after him with stunrods?
Shepards mind didn't shatter by the beacons, the excessive trauma of dying and being resurrected or some of all the other horror stuff that breaks lesser minds.

[Nightdragon8]

hang on... TIM did say the whole "you can't understand my motives" thing didn't he.... which is exactly what the reaper keeps telling Shep...

My very first thought about TIM was that he wasn't "human" and im wondering if that is true... I mean why else would he do project overload. he is trying to recreate something that happened with AI's and it seems to me that most AI's have the whole "You can't understand what I am aiming for" stuff. Geth haven't said anything like that in fact Legion completely spells out the Geth ultimte goal.

(funny enough is more like a smaller verson of transformers really)

EDIT: while I have no proof. All the shadowbroker stuff, seems to be a cataloge of the things he does. Which seems prefect for a rich SOB, i mean he has all the vices a human would have... I mean all of them, right down to smoking

Modifié par Nightdragon8, 29 juin 2011 - 09:58 .

[Spectre_907]

Nightdragon8 wrote...

hang on... TIM did say the whole "you can't understand my motives" thing didn't he.... which is exactly what the reaper keeps telling Shep...

TIM never says that. The most he says is to never make a judgment about him when Shepard has little to no knowledge of him. And rightfully so given Shepard's accusation after the events on Aiea. TIM also says to not judge him or his methods with the Collector base. But never is it said that Shepard can't fathom his motives. He makes quite clear what his intentions are.

[Dean_the_Young]

Arcian wrote...

Seboist wrote...

I'm already bummed out that we're railoaded into fighting Cerberus

Are you seriously saying this is wrong when we were equally railroaded into working with them in ME2?

If anything, it's chemo to the cancer that is Cerberusfans. You guys really missed the point with how Cerberus and TIM was portrayed in ME2.

"Hey peeps: you didn't agree with my interpretation. That makes you comparable to a life-debilitating, often fatal disease."

classy.

(Insert ironic thumbs up smile here.)

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 30 juin 2011 - 12:13 .

[Seboist]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Arcian wrote...

Seboist wrote...

I'm already bummed out that we're railoaded into fighting Cerberus

Are you seriously saying this is wrong when we were equally railroaded into working with them in ME2?

If anything, it's chemo to the cancer that is Cerberusfans. You guys really missed the point with how Cerberus and TIM was portrayed in ME2.

"Hey peeps: you didn't agree with my interpretation. That makes you comparable to a life-debilitating, often fatal disease."

classy.

(Insert ironic thumbs up smile here.)

The rabid anti-Cerberus folks really lose their minds don't they?

[Dave of Canada]

Arcian wrote...

If anything, it's chemo to the cancer that is Cerberusfans. You guys really missed the point with how Cerberus and TIM was portrayed in ME2.

A morally-gray organization that's methods are questionable but has noble goals, where the game presents if you can agree or disagree with such methods?

[Dean_the_Young]

Seboist wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Arcian wrote...

Seboist wrote...

I'm already bummed out that we're railoaded into fighting Cerberus

Are you seriously saying this is wrong when we were equally railroaded into working with them in ME2?

If anything, it's chemo to the cancer that is Cerberusfans. You guys really missed the point with how Cerberus and TIM was portrayed in ME2.

"Hey peeps: you didn't agree with my interpretation. That makes you comparable to a life-debilitating, often fatal disease."

classy.

(Insert ironic thumbs up smile here.)

The rabid anti-Cerberus folks really lose their minds don't they?

Let it never be said that anti-anti-Cerberus folks can't maintain a healthy victimization complex when they wish.

(Insert ironic thumbs up smile here.)

[Chuvvy]

It's just bioware getting afraid of having anything that could be considered morally grey in their game. They need to make it black and white. The only grey thing left now is the genophage.

[Seboist]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Arcian wrote...

If anything, it's chemo to the cancer that is Cerberusfans. You guys really missed the point with how Cerberus and TIM was portrayed in ME2.

A morally-gray organization that's methods are questionable but has noble goals, where the game presents if you can agree or disagree with such methods?

And who saved humanity from the Collectors.

[Seboist]

Slidell505 wrote...

It's just bioware getting afraid of having anything that could be considered morally grey in their game. They need to make it black and white. The only grey thing left now is the genophage.

I would say that it's due to actual player choice conflicting with the "epic story" they want to tell coupled with a set release date and wanting to do sequels/prequels/spin offs in the future.

Here's the proof:

We’re exploring new types of online play. We also have some new things
in the pipe we haven’t announced yet out of our Edmonton studio… We’re
obviously looking at Mass Effect, Dragon Age – they’re epic franchises,
and we have more things planned in the future. Mass Effect 3 is the
beginning of a Galactic war. The future’s bright.”

http://www.pcgamer.c...ass-effect-mmo/

[qworty]

From the very first time I saw TIM I thought that guy is not human or at least not all human. Just look at his eyes they look like Sarens eyes did in ME1. My guess was that the reapers aren't all united in purpose and that TIM was being indoctrinated by a reaper that had some other plan for humanity than the rest of them.

[Dean_the_Young]

Well, in the sense that any post-ME MMO could summarize ME3 as a prologue, you can't avoid it.

My speculation is that ME3 will end with the Reapers beaten, but not all-destroyed: the war more or less ends with the Reapers hiding in the unexplored areas/back in Dark Space, and with the galaxy rebuilding but needing to be constantly on guard for their machinations even as old rivalries return.

So a significant MMO plotline could be dealing with the Reaper tech, how different groups try and seize it, and ultimately dealing with a covert Reaper threat.