21 réponses à ce sujet

[MinotaurWarrior]

The Ogres we face in the dragon age games are the children of Kossith broodmothers. Female Qunari are not part of the army, and live only in their cities, so there must have been darkspawn raids and attacks against Qunari cities. My question is, how have the Qunari delt with this threat? They have no Gray Wardens, and so they must send their normal, non-tain resistant soldiers against the darkspawn. Where the dwarves mostly worry about genlocks, and the humans face hordes of hurlocks, the qunari must be facing armies composed largely of Ogres. Every time they attack the darkspawn, it must be a phyrric victory, because many of their soldiers must contract the taint. Considering how they treat mages who have been allowed to walk freely for a time, I cannot imagine that those who face the darkspawn are treated well.

Yet, the Qunari somehow manage to survive. Their Arishok is allowed to wander around, searching for holy relics. How can this be? Is there any explanation ever given for how the Qunari survive the darkspawn? Do they have their own Grey Warden equivalents?

[Big I]

The interesting thing about the Qunari is that ogres are recorded all the way back to the First Blight but Qunari only reached Par Vollen in the Steel Age, six or seven hundred years after that.


The other interesting thing I found while reading the DA2 Arlathan codex entries is that humans also originally came to Thedas from the north, the first place they reached was Par Vollen.

[SkittlesKat96]

Another question is who would win in a war between the Qunari and the Darkspawn if the Darkspawn attacked them? The Darkspawn are formidable but the Qunari are unified and powerful and have very futuristic strong weaponry compared to most of Thedas.

I think that the Qunari wouldn't properly kill the Archdemon (since they know and care little about the Grey Wardens and probably don't believe in it all) but I think they could possibly stand a chance at winning. That said I don't think we know much about Par Vollen yet and the Qunari so yeah.

EDIT: @Glass: I think that one about the Ogres is a developer oversight (maybe) but other people have mentioned it before and we know little about the Darkspawn so maybe the developers will explain it at some point

Modifié par SkittlesKat96, 29 juin 2011 - 11:10 .

[MinotaurWarrior]

LookingGlass93 wrote...
The interesting thing about the Qunari is that ogres are recorded all the way back to the First Blight but Qunari only reached Par Vollen in the Steel Age, six or seven hundred years after that.

You know, the codex says that the Qunari haven't been able to make contact with their original homeland for a while now, and we don't know how far the deep roads extended... Maybe the Kossith homeland has been largely wiped out by darkspawn?

[yfullman]

SkittlesKat96 wrote...

Another question is who would win in a war between the Qunari and the Darkspawn if the Darkspawn attacked them? The Darkspawn are formidable but the Qunari are unified and powerful and have very futuristic strong weaponry compared to most of Thedas.

I think that the Qunari wouldn't properly kill the Archdemon (since they know and care little about the Grey Wardens and probably don't believe in it all) but I think they could possibly stand a chance at winning. That said I don't think we know much about Par Vollen yet and the Qunari so yeah.

EDIT: @Glass: I think that one about the Ogres is a developer oversight (maybe) but other people have mentioned it before and we know little about the Darkspawn so maybe the developers will explain it at some point

Im sure Tevinter killed the Archdemon quite a few times during the 200 years of the first Blight 

[HSHAW]

The ogres appearing before Kossith thing has been stated to be a future plot point rather than a plot hole.

[TEWR]

SkittlesKat96 wrote...

Another question is who would win in a war between the Qunari and the Darkspawn if the Darkspawn attacked them? The Darkspawn are formidable but the Qunari are unified and powerful and have very futuristic strong weaponry compared to most of Thedas.

I think that the Qunari wouldn't properly kill the Archdemon (since they know and care little about the Grey Wardens and probably don't believe in it all) but I think they could possibly stand a chance at winning. That said I don't think we know much about Par Vollen yet and the Qunari so yeah.

EDIT: @Glass: I think that one about the Ogres is a developer oversight (maybe) but other people have mentioned it before and we know little about the Darkspawn so maybe the developers will explain it at some point

I would think Sten would tell them that only the Grey Wardens can truly end a Blight and must make the killing blow themselves.

He may also tell them, depending on whether you did the DR or not, that you can survive. I don't know if he'd be savvy as to the nature of the survival, so if a Blight happens in Qunari territory and they had Grey Wardens they'd probably be shocked to realize their Grey Wardens died. But then they'd just name them Qunoran'Vehl and celebrate.

Which makes me wonder if the Hero of Ferelden does in fact tell Sten why Grey Wardens are needed to end the Blight after he/she.... well.... ends the Blight. I would've told him since he was sent on a mission to study the Blight and the Grey Wardens since they go hand in hand with one another and he calls you kadan (brother).

Plus, with their cannons they'd blow the Darkspawn away.

As for the Ogres, I maintain that either small bands of Darkspawn made their way to Qunari lands and took female Kossith, or there were Tal-Vashoth female Kossith that tried to live a solitary life (or one as a warrior).

Alternatively, perhaps Tal-Vashoth ships had landed on Thedas before seeking a new life, and records were taken about this new race, but due to the 3 Blights records were destroyed and people forgot about them until they "first appeared" once again. The Blights were very destructive to Thedas in the past, and I doubt the Darkspawn would be so kind as to keep records from being destroyed.

Im sure Tevinter killed the Archdemon quite a few times during the 200 years of the first Blight 

That must've pissed them off to no end, seeing that thing go to each Darkspawn and command the rest.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 29 juin 2011 - 11:49 .

[Rifneno]

MinotaurWarrior wrote...

You know, the codex says that the Qunari haven't been able to make contact with their original homeland for a while now, and we don't know how far the deep roads extended... Maybe the Kossith homeland has been largely wiped out by darkspawn?

It's possible they'll go that route, but scientifically it wouldn't be viable. The dwarves would have no way to accurately avoid the ocean. They wouldn't have the slightest idea how deep it is (or even if it *has* an end) so they'd be going in blind in a place where there is absolutely no room for error. Because if they ever got close enough to the ocean that the tremendous water pressure could break the wall through to the tunnel it'd be game over. The entire deep roads would be underwater. Even if they did know where it was safe to dig from the ocean, it'd likely be too hot to do so. The deeper you go the hotter it gets, as the planet's core is an unimaginably huge ball of molten magma (lava). By the time you got a safe distance under the ocean you'd be cooked. The Deep Roads going under the ocean would make as much sense as the plot to Die Hard 4. ... Sadly, that doesn't really rule it out.

HSHAW wrote...

The ogres appearing before Kossith thing has been stated to be a future plot point rather than a plot hole.

Yes, but have they ever admitted a plot hole? When the timeline error about Anders being in Kirkwall when Awakening was still going on was initially brought up, they told us that we miscalculated and never said another word about it. I'm inclined to think the kossith/ogre thing is another little timeline error that wasn't intended.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

That must've pissed them off to no end, seeing that thing go to each Darkspawn and command the rest.

Just imagine for a moment... the look on Loghain's face if he had won the Landsmeet duel and went through with his plan to deal with the Blight without Wardens. ... Priceless.

[TEWR]

Yes, but have they ever admitted a plot hole? When the timeline error about Anders being in Kirkwall when Awakening was still going on was initially brought up, they told us that we miscalculated and never said another word about it. I'm inclined to think the kossith/ogre thing is another little timeline error that wasn't intended.

Yes WE miscalculated.....

[MinotaurWarrior]

[quote]The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Which makes me wonder if the Hero of Ferelden does in fact tell Sten why Grey Wardens are needed to end the Blight after he/she.... well.... ends the Blight. I would've told him since he was sent on a mission to study the Blight and the Grey Wardens since they go hand in hand with one another and he calls you kadan (brother).
[/quote]

I've always felt that the Qunari are a dangerous rival to all my PCs, and Sten being cool doesn't change that much. The warden that serves as my Avatar right now would have probably lied to Sten (we eat a darkspawn's heart to become Grey Wardens. If you have sex with a woman you love the night before, you'll be able to survive killing the archdemon), and tried to somehow direct the darkspawn towards the Qunari, somehow.

That being said, I still thing Isabella and Petrice were insufferable idiots for risking a direct confrontation with the Arishok.


[quote]As for the Ogres, I maintain that either small bands of Darkspawn made their way to Qunari lands and took female Kossith, or there were Tal-Vashoth female Kossith that tried to live a solitary life (or one as a warrior).

Alternatively, perhaps Tal-Vashoth ships had landed on Thedas before seeking a new life, and records were taken about this new race, but due to the 3 Blights records were destroyed and people forgot about them until they "first appeared" once again. The Blights were very destructive to Thedas in the past, and I doubt the Darkspawn would be so kind as to keep records from being destroyed.[/quote]

I think it would take more than a small raiding force to get into a Qunari city and capture their females. Tal'Vashoth females sound more plausable. Neither of these adress the ogres in the first blight problem.

I think the Qun is only a few hundred years old, so its possible that some original flavor Kossith (before the Qunari / Tal-Vashoth came to be) could have come to Thedas on trading missions.

[quote][quote]Im sure Tevinter killed the Archdemon quite a few times during the 200 years of the first Blight 
[/quote]

That must've pissed them off to no end, seeing that thing go to each Darkspawn and command the rest.[/quote][/quote]
This is actually something that's bugged me for a really long time. Do we know the mechanics of the Old-God body/soul switcheroo? Does the soul go to the closest darkspawn nearby? And does it just instantly transform into the form of a high dragon? Dragons were "wiped out" in the storm age, and re-appeared at the end of the blessed age, nearly three hundred years later, so if the archdemons take a normal dragon's maturation time it could take almost three centuries for them to become a real physical threat again.

If the soul goes to the nearest darkspawn, the process is less than instantaenaeous, and even a non high-dragon-form archdemon, it seems like the Grey Wardens would be better off putting a genlock in a really strong cage, getting it really close to the archdemon, and then letting a normal warrior kill the beast, so they could farm the blood forever, switching genlocks as the need arises.

If the process of re-dragonification takes ~ 300 years, then its possible that the Grey Wardens are complete BS, and we've just been fighting the same old gods again and again. It's not like they have nametags or anything, right?

EDIT:

[quote]Rifneno wrote...

[quote]MinotaurWarrior wrote...

You
know, the codex says that the Qunari haven't been able to make contact
with their original homeland for a while now, and we don't know how far
the deep roads extended... Maybe the Kossith homeland has been largely
wiped out by darkspawn?
[/quote]

It's possible they'll go that
route, but scientifically it wouldn't be viable. The dwarves would
have no way to accurately avoid the ocean. They wouldn't have the
slightest idea how deep it is (or even if it *has* an end) so they'd be
going in blind in a place where there is absolutely no room for error.
Because if they ever got close enough to the ocean that the tremendous
water pressure could break the wall through to the tunnel it'd be game
over. The entire deep roads would be underwater. Even if they did know
where it was safe to dig from the ocean, it'd likely be too hot to do
so. The deeper you go the hotter it gets, as the planet's core is an
unimaginably huge ball of molten magma (lava). By the time you got a
safe distance under the ocean you'd be cooked. The Deep Roads going
under the ocean would make as much sense as the plot to Die Hard 4. ...
Sadly, that doesn't really rule it out.
[/quote]

Orzammar has a magma river running throgh it for heating and lighting. Your argument is invalid. 

I'm pretty sure dwarves run on nonsensium. I mean, how are the deep roads ventilated? How do the deep roads maintain a stable ecology, dinosaurs included, without any visible plant life? I understand that 10th century tech shouldn't be able able to create a super-chunnel, but I think dwarven 'tech' might be able to pull it off.

Modifié par MinotaurWarrior, 30 juin 2011 - 12:42 .

[Chuvvy]

Filament wrote...

They've never faced a proper blight, all they've had to deal with is small raiding bands probably.

And they probably take down ogres with spears like you might take down an elephant.

I'm not manly enough to take down an elephant with a spear. Our ancestors were some crazy mother****ers, they went after Mammoths.

[TEWR]

MinotaurWarrior wrote...



I've always felt that the Qunari are a dangerous rival to all my PCs, and Sten being cool doesn't change that much. The warden that serves as my Avatar right now would have probably lied to Sten (we eat a darkspawn's heart to become Grey Wardens. If you have sex with a woman you love the night before, you'll be able to survive killing the archdemon), and tried to somehow direct the darkspawn towards the Qunari, somehow.

That being said, I still thing Isabella and Petrice were insufferable idiots for risking a direct confrontation with the Arishok.

I see the Qunari as..... well.... just ****s really (aside from Sten, Saarebas, and Maraas the former Qunari, now Tal-Vashoth). They need to realize that even though they can force change on society, they shouldn't. If people want to convert, they'll convert. But they shouldn't take issue with how other people live.

Maybe Sten will change how they act if he becomes Arishok, as he'll have hung out with mages, female fighters, and has seen things that contradict the Qun. He even mentions that his views have changed a little. Maybe he'll enlighten those who always seek to enlighten the world.

http://www.youtube.c...1LbtKnJc#t=373s

I think it would take more than a small raiding force to get into a Qunari city and capture their females. Tal'Vashoth females sound more plausable. Neither of these adress the ogres in the first blight problem.

I think the Qun is only a few hundred years old, so its possible that some original flavor Kossith (before the Qunari / Tal-Vashoth came to be) could have come to Thedas on trading missions.

They have villages too, so the raids could've happened there.

Rifneno wrote...

MinotaurWarrior wrote...

You
know, the codex says that the Qunari haven't been able to make contact
with their original homeland for a while now, and we don't know how far
the deep roads extended... Maybe the Kossith homeland has been largely
wiped out by darkspawn?

It's possible they'll go that
route, but scientifically it wouldn't be viable. The dwarves would
have no way to accurately avoid the ocean. They wouldn't have the
slightest idea how deep it is (or even if it *has* an end) so they'd be
going in blind in a place where there is absolutely no room for error.
Because if they ever got close enough to the ocean that the tremendous
water pressure could break the wall through to the tunnel it'd be game
over. The entire deep roads would be underwater. Even if they did know
where it was safe to dig from the ocean, it'd likely be too hot to do
so. The deeper you go the hotter it gets, as the planet's core is an
unimaginably huge ball of molten magma (lava). By the time you got a
safe distance under the ocean you'd be cooked. The Deep Roads going
under the ocean would make as much sense as the plot to Die Hard 4. ...
Sadly, that doesn't really rule it out.

Orzammar has a magma river running throgh it for heating and lighting. Your argument is invalid. 

I'm pretty sure dwarves run on nonsensium. I mean, how are the deep roads ventilated? How do the deep roads maintain a stable ecology, dinosaurs included, without any visible plant life? I understand that 10th century tech shouldn't be able able to create a super-chunnel, but I think dwarven 'tech' might be able to pull it off.

IIRC Brontos were bred to be able to feast on rocks and stuff. Deepstalkers are basically just worms with feet, and nugs.... well they're just subterranean bunny pigs that nip.

[MinotaurWarrior]

Brontos feed on rocks. That alone says all that needs to be said about the deep roads.

[TEWR]

Here's the bronto codex entry:

This hulking beast was originally bred by the dwarven Shaperate as a beast of burden and food source, the rough equivalent to surface oxen and cows. Some versions of bronto have even been developed as dwarven mounts, valued far more for their sure-footedness and stamina than for their speed. While present within Orzammar in large numbers, some bronto still exist in packs within the Deep Roads, having returned to a wild state after the fall of the dwarven kingdoms. They require remarkably little sustenance, consuming organic material from water, fungus and even rocks (hence the "rock-licker" appellation used by many dwarves to describe bronto), and exist in primarily dormant states until provoked. An angry, charging bronto is considered to be a rather dangerous opponent.




Here's part of the nug one:

The nug is an omnivore common to the Deep Roads, a hairless creature that is almost blind as well as completely docile. It spends most of its time wading in shallow pools as well as mud pits, feeding on small insects, worms, and (in a pinch) limestone and simple metals.



And according to the wiki Deepstalkers are used as emergency food for the Legion of the Dead.

[MinotaurWarrior]

None of those entries mention multicellular plant life, which makes me think fancy Okku (Filament) is correct, and they feed on lyrichlorians

[TEWR]

Actually Cadash Thaig had plantlife growing in it. Just grass and moss, but still.

[MinotaurWarrior]

I never noticed that before, but I'll take your word for it.

[Foolsfolly]

Unrelated to the conversation but Cadash Thaig is also my favorite thaig so far. It's extremely well made. And it's the first and so far only thaig that feels like people once lived there.

IMO, of course.

[genocidal villain]

Remember that qunari is a philosophy not a race you're referring to the kossith. Now there can be many possibilities because kossith don't have to be qunari. Possibility is kossith living outside the qun or ran away like the tal-vashoth and stumbled across thedas those could of been a few female kossith and were captured by the Darkspawn, or a small squad of Qunari stumbled across the Darkspawn and never reported due to being captured. Plus it seems that darkspawn ONLY exist in thedas and the qunari that live in par vollen is mostly a huge invasion army that settled there. Including the fact that Sten from DA:O was tasked to finding what the Blight is.