92 réponses à ce sujet

[Dean_the_Young]

Beerfish wrote...

The big question is what do the Hanar do now that their Enkindlers are exposed as just being another garden variety trace that gets wiped out by the Reapers?

They backpeddle.





CDN: 03/24/2011 - Galaxy Continues to React to Mass Relay Revelations

“Reactions to the discovery that mass relays were not created by the Prothean civilization continue to pour in. On Kahje, the response is largely denial and shock. Religious leader All-Bright Olos the 10th, the Sounaril of the Manas tradition, reacted by uploading a 13-minute speech to the newsnets that urged calm and peace. "It is no heresy to say the Enkindlers themselves may have been Enkindled," the hanar said. "It is their example of selflessness, courtesy, and willingness to share their gifts that teaches these ones how to live. To say there was something before them, an even more noble being, gives these penitents an even swifter current to ride, a greater model to which we can all aspire."”

[PhantomSpectre]

Leoism wrote...

So just because our biology makes it so thats all that can be right? That's cool i thought this was a game of endless possibilites not human only. Can't be bothered to argue about it, the whole point of my first post was, there was a possibility i don't know and nor' do you so lets leave it at that

Well Vigil did say that, when Reapers finally retreated and it woke up the rest of the still alive Protheans, it was not any longer possible to sustain a viable population with them. And they were their top researchers. If they couldn't find a way to continue Prothean existence, then none will have.

Only other ways how Protheans might have survived is that Reapers missed some random planet, another secret planet. Another possibility is that when Reapers finally left, they usually left their indoctrinated slaves behind them and these mindless slaves then died. But it could have been possible that Protheans mind and the cipher specifically might have helped them gradually to overcome indoctrination and retain their own mind. Now while this could actually work, this theory doesn't work because of Collectors. It would seem that Reapers took all the prothean they found and which survived whatever work they did, and then repurpose them as Collectors. So, there were no chance for this possible "overcome Indoctrination with time" theory. So, either Reapers missed another planet or Protheans are dead.

Though there is still one way I can see that some Protheans might have survived (or that we could get Prothean team member). It's that they would have somehow managed to made a Reaper like body, half organic and half synthetic and then somehow downloaded their essence into them. Yeah, sounds crazy, but it was most likely technologically possible for Protheans, especially if they somehow managed to learn something from Reapers of how they made their own new Reaper from some species.


Now I would like to learn more about Protheans and it would be great to see them or their knowledge help to win to the war against Reapers. Well as long as it's not just some sort of virus made from cipher or like that. Virus endings are just not good ones.

[PhantomSpectre]

littlezack wrote...

After 50,000 or so years of the Reapers screwing with their genetic makeup in Who-Knows-What ways, they could look like anything. That was the point, the Reapers took the Protheans and modified them to such an extent that they didn't even resemble Protheans anymore. Shepard, who actually should have a good idea what a Prothean looks like from his experiences, didn't even recognize them.

Indeed. I doubt that for example Keepers looked anything like they look now before Reapers made them.

[Travie]

Lets light a candle for the Bro-theans.

[Thompson family]

I feel as though after the collectors , the Protheans are completley empty on in-game importance.

They're extinct.

I'd elaborate, but that seems rather pointless.

[Eurhetemec]

Han Shot First wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

ME2 applied a retcon on the Prothean vision. They no longer look like meling tentacle-handed things... they look Collectors.

Whole new clearer Beacon and everything.

Not true.

That vision contains both the tentacle faced beings and the Collector. It plays out so fast it is easy to miss, but the very first image Shep sees in the N7 vision is one of the tentacle faced beings in agony.



Fast forward to 5:45 to see the vision. At 5:52 there will be the familiar image of the tentacle-faced Prothean.

Yeah I thought as Dead did until I re-played ME2 recently, and paid attention in the vision. As you say and show, it shows both forms, I guess to make it clear that they're one and the same.

[Dean_the_Young]

Good note, Han: I admit my error.

[DDG4005]

Han Shot First wrote...

What did they acually look like

We know the answer to this question.

They resembled the tentacle faced beings Shepard sees in the beacon visions and that we see represented on the statues of Ilos.

Some gamers become confused because we are told the Collectors were created from genetically and cybernetically altered Protheans, and because Shepard also sees an image of a Collector in one of his visions. This has led some players to assume that the Protheans also looked like the Collectors, but this is incorrect. The vision that shows a Collector contains flashes of the extermination of the Protheans, including the familiar tentacle faced beings in agony as they are slaughtered. The vision then ends with an image of the Collector. That vision in addition to showing flashes of the genocide of the Protheans, shows the transformation of some of the surviving indoctrinated Protheans into the Collectors.

The Reapers took some of the indoctrinated Protheans and altered their DNA to the point that they were no longer Prothean. They probably spliced the Prothean DNA with other species that were exterminated, to get the traits they wanted in their thralls, in addition to the cybernetic 'enhancements' they made to the Collectors.

Exactly.  I thought this was clear to everyone who played ME2 but it looks like it wasn't.

[Leoism]

PhantomSpectre wrote...

Leoism wrote...

So just because our biology makes it so thats all that can be right? That's cool i thought this was a game of endless possibilites not human only. Can't be bothered to argue about it, the whole point of my first post was, there was a possibility i don't know and nor' do you so lets leave it at that

Well Vigil did say that, when Reapers finally retreated and it woke up the rest of the still alive Protheans, it was not any longer possible to sustain a viable population with them. And they were their top researchers. If they couldn't find a way to continue Prothean existence, then none will have.

Only other ways how Protheans might have survived is that Reapers missed some random planet, another secret planet. Another possibility is that when Reapers finally left, they usually left their indoctrinated slaves behind them and these mindless slaves then died. But it could have been possible that Protheans mind and the cipher specifically might have helped them gradually to overcome indoctrination and retain their own mind. Now while this could actually work, this theory doesn't work because of Collectors. It would seem that Reapers took all the prothean they found and which survived whatever work they did, and then repurpose them as Collectors. So, there were no chance for this possible "overcome Indoctrination with time" theory. So, either Reapers missed another planet or Protheans are dead.

Though there is still one way I can see that some Protheans might have survived (or that we could get Prothean team member). It's that they would have somehow managed to made a Reaper like body, half organic and half synthetic and then somehow downloaded their essence into them. Yeah, sounds crazy, but it was most likely technologically possible for Protheans, especially if they somehow managed to learn something from Reapers of how they made their own new Reaper from some species.


Now I would like to learn more about Protheans and it would be great to see them or their knowledge help to win to the war against Reapers. Well as long as it's not just some sort of virus made from cipher or like that. Virus endings are just not good ones.

This is what i tried to put across - It's a possibility small but it's there, nothing was certain as to what happened to the surviving researchers and maybe they had another planet like Ilos already inhabbited, I.e Their backup  plan incase they failed. Unmentioned because of possible detection perhaps. I dont know i'm just thinking out loud really, my mind does like to wander at times

[DDG4005]

Saphra Deden wrote...

If anything the Protheans were shoehorned into ME2 and their presence in the game came off as unnecessary and even demeaning to their legacy (and plot relevance) in ME1.

I think that was the point.  A once great species reduced to mindless slaves of the Reapers.  The Collectors were an example of what happens when a race tries to stop the Reapers and fails.  As Mordin said, "Protheans dead, Collectors just final insult."  It portends the fate of humanity and other species if they fail to stop them.

[Kurt M.]

Brand New wrote...Like. Played it atleast 10 times.

Then you haven't paid much attention to the details. Questions 2, 3 and a bit of 6 are answered. In ME1 it says both that they were the only spacefaring race and that there were others (you can find them by reading some Uncharted Worlds' descriptions, although they could also be from a Reaper harvesting prior to the Protheans...although pretty unlikely having in mind we would be talking about 100.000 years).

And about the Protheans...they've been destroyed twice, first by the Reapers, second by Shepard destroying/purging the Collector Base, so I think it'd be time to put them down and leave them in peace. Only exception would be the completion somehow of Shepard's vision, and some surprises that would come with it. i'd certainly like that.

And please, no "living Protheans". It'd be as cheap as a sci-fi resource as it could be.

Modifié par Gladiador2, 29 juin 2011 - 07:03 .

[Brand New]

Gladiador2 wrote...

Brand New wrote...Like. Played it atleast 10 times.

Then you haven't payed much attention to the details. Questions 2, 3 and a bit of 6 are answered. In ME1 it says both that they were the only spacefaring race and that there were others (you can find them by reading some Uncharted Worlds' descriptions, although they could also be from a Reaper harvesting prior to the Protheans...although pretty unlikely having in mind we would be talking about 100.000 years).

And about the Protheans...they've been destroyed twice, first by the Reapers, second by Shepard destroying/purging the Collector Base, so I think it'd be time to put them down and leave them in peace. Only exception would be the completion somehow of Shepard's vision, and some surprises that would come with it. i'd certainly like that.

And please, no "living Protheans". It'd be as cheap as a sci-fi resource as it could be.

If you read any of this thread you would know that I am merley speculatin all of this. I've payed attention and the details go about an inch thick and stop. I want to know acual facts etc. To have been able to contrust a mass relay is a phenominal feat. Who is to say the Protheans didn't originate in another galaxy. Sure i know the chances of it are slim to none, but it is merley a thought considering their advancement.

[littlezack]

Saphra Deden wrote...

DDG3595 wrote...

I think that was the point.  A once great species reduced to mindless slaves of the Reapers.

That might have been Bioware's intent, but it falls flat because it is so meaningless within the context of the game.

When I first reached that point in the game and the "twist" was revealed my reaction was, "So what?"

The 'So what' for me was that, given their interest in capturing humans alive, it gave a dark suspicion for what the Reapers plans for humanity might be.

[PhantomSpectre]

Well I do know one thing, they did forgot or at least chose not to mention about Prothean in ME2. That vision you can read on Eletania.I would really want to know if it does mean anything at all. Yeah, it was part of one useless collection assignment, but what makes it more interesting is that you actually need another part to get that whole vision working. That increases it chances to actually mean something, though I guess those chances are still very meager.

Now if it would mean something, then at least those collection mission would have been more worthy.

[Chuvvy]

Arcian wrote...

Brand New wrote...

I feel as thought after the collectors , the Protheans are completley empty on in game importance.

I want to know more about them. Here is a list over time I have complied.

What was their homeworld? Is it even in this Galaxy?
Why couldn't the Reapers use them for a new Reaper?
What did they acually look like?
Does bioware plan on telling us more about them or was their depth only as far as what happened to them in the collector sense.
Was the collector base really a collector consturct or perhaps a redesigned Prothean ship, station, etc.
What did they know about us and the hannar & other species they studied?
Were they really the only spacefaring species(sounds hard to beleive)
Did they war? Were they a strickly scientitst race due to their physcial strucutre of tentcals or what we seem to know what they might look like?


Do you guys feel like the Protheans have no other say in this series & now that we know what happened to them and why they are no longer any value to us?


I am really hoping they are included in this series.

Prothy the Prothean Squadmember will answer all of your questions in ME3.

Oh god... Sad thing is, I could see that happening.

[littlezack]

Saphra Deden wrote...

littlezack wrote...

The 'So what' for me was that, given their interest in capturing humans alive, it gave a dark suspicion for what the Reapers plans for humanity might be.

Again, "So what?" We already had some same suspicions already. Learning that the Reapers modify organicss to serve them was not a new revelation. That's why the twist in ME2 is both uninteresting and unnecesssary.

We knew they modified organics. We didn't know they could do it like that. There's a difference between turning humans into zombies and perverting an entire species' evolution to make them into a race of permanent slaves.

If it didn't do anything for you, fine. I thought it was a testament to how far the Reapers are willing to go in enslaving organics. You're not just fighting to save the universe from death, but to save it from a fate worse than death. It's especially disturbing, because the Reapers probably didn't need to do that to the Protheans. They probably could have made a race of synthetics to suit their needs, or built something else from scratch, modified some lesser race. It's almost like they did it to the Protheans just to twist the knife.

Modifié par littlezack, 29 juin 2011 - 08:01 .

[Kurt M.]

Brand New wrote...

Gladiador2 wrote...

Brand New wrote...Like. Played it atleast 10 times.

Then you haven't payed much attention to the details. Questions 2, 3 and a bit of 6 are answered. In ME1 it says both that they were the only spacefaring race and that there were others (you can find them by reading some Uncharted Worlds' descriptions, although they could also be from a Reaper harvesting prior to the Protheans...although pretty unlikely having in mind we would be talking about 100.000 years).

And about the Protheans...they've been destroyed twice, first by the Reapers, second by Shepard destroying/purging the Collector Base, so I think it'd be time to put them down and leave them in peace. Only exception would be the completion somehow of Shepard's vision, and some surprises that would come with it. i'd certainly like that.

And please, no "living Protheans". It'd be as cheap as a sci-fi resource as it could be.

If you read any of this thread you would know that I am merley speculatin all of this. I've payed attention and the details go about an inch thick and stop. I want to know acual facts etc. To have been able to contrust a mass relay is a phenominal feat. Who is to say the Protheans didn't originate in another galaxy. Sure i know the chances of it are slim to none, but it is merley a thought considering their advancement.

So, now asking simple questions in order to be answered is "speculating" now? No comments....

And the Protheans already had to put all their technical prowess to create a single-directed mini mass relay (the Conduit) that only links Ilos and the Citadel, which are in the same galaxy. It's obvious you don't really know how big is the space between galaxies (dark space), isn't it? So they coming from another galaxy is just stupid. One more proof you didn't really bother to consult or even read the lore before asking.

Modifié par Gladiador2, 30 juin 2011 - 05:54 .

[Massadonious1]

Unless we can hop in a TARDIS and solve their plight after we solve ours, I honestly don't care. Anything they can offer up at this point it time is just going to be some deus ex machina that I could do without.

They served their purpose in 1, ooooh big plot twist in 2, and now, meh. Just leave it at that.

[Missouri Tigers]

They aren't that important anymore though.  During ME1 we thought the Protheans gave us all their technology, but when it was discovered that the Reapers actually created the relays and Citadel, the Protheans don't matter.  They are just one of countless civilizations to fall at the hands of the Reapers.

[vader da slayer]

blackashes411 wrote...

So do you want to know even more about them or do you want them to play a larger role somehow in ME3, whether that comes in the form of some hidden piece of Prothean info we have yet to discover or (unlikely) of a living Prothean?

I for one would really like it if the Protheans play a bigger role in ME3, as in something integral to the survival of the galaxy, rather then just an example of what happens when Shepard fails, which is pretty much the role they're playing at this point.

conduit
repear signal jammer

pretty integral to the survival of the galaxy. not saying maybe something else could be found but what they already did was pretty integral to the storyline.

[Aviena]

Gladiador2 wrote...
So, now asking simple questions in order to be answered is "speculating" now? No comments....

And the Protheans already had to put all their technical prowess to create a single-directed mini mass relay (the Conduit) that only links Ilos and the Citadel, which are in the same galaxy. It's obvious you don't really know how big is the space between galaxies (dark space), isn't it? So they coming from another galaxy is just stupid. One more proof you didn't really bother to consult or even read the lore before asking.

Geez...hostile. These forums exist for discussion and speculation about the game - the OP isn't breaking any rules by posing us questions about the Protheans. And quite frankly, only the question regarding the Protheans' appearance has ever been definitely answered in either game. The rest were not answered at all, merely speculated upon by ingame characters (Liara, EDI, etc), or just left for the audience to ponder.

Secondly, technological pioneers are always "putting all their technical prowess" into whatever they are developing at the time. Otherwise it wouldn't be terribly...progressive, would it? It's how breakthroughs are made, and it means  greater reserves of knowledge and experience are around to draw upon for their next endeavour. It's not like they "used up" all their ingenuity.

Finally, actually building a functional mass relay is something that (as far as we know) none of the other races that the Reapers have annihilated over the milennia ever achieved. It's a pretty big deal, actually. And "only" linking Ilos and the Citadel isn't a failing; there are plenty of Reaper-built relays that only link two discrete locations. And considering the size of the Relay Monument, and the fact that no organics had ever built a relay before, it isn't surprising that only two locations would be involved.


EDIT: Why were the Collectors running genetic comparisons between their altered-selves and humanity, I wonder?

Modifié par Aviena, 30 juin 2011 - 07:16 .

[Tilarta]

Well, Ilos was an advanced science research station, so it's not to be taken as a representative of the Prothean population in general, because they were all scientists.

As for their armored appearance (as Collectors), does Shepherd look remotely like a human in the N7 armor? Of course not.
The difference is that as Collectors, they're permanantly integrated into their armor, whereas I assume a Prothean could remove the armor when necessary or they didn't need to wear it.

As for EDI's statement about Protheans not being suitable for Reapers, to me, it sounds like she's speculating.
There is no hard evidence presented that Harbinger is or is not a Prothean Reaper.
But since he shares Collector design aesthethics, this is why I assumed he is a Prothean, because he is based on Prothean technology.
And it wouldn't have taken all the Protheans in existence to make one Reaper, so whatever was left over could have been converted into Collectors once the Reapers realized how useful a Prothean army could be to them.

As for the knowledge Shepherd has acquired from the Prothean Beacons, there's not much of it that's easily understandable. All Shepherd acquired was the ability to speak (and presumably read as well) the Prothean language, plus a few scattered visual images.
It's possible in time, more of the message may become clear and decipherable, that is, if there's anything useful left in the message.
It basically said "Reapers are coming, Ilos is the only planet not to fall to them", followed by the location of Ilos.
Whether there is any more information then that, only time will tell.