The Twilight God wrote...
Put it together? Let me "put it together" for you.
By all means do.
This as a first time experiement. You'll note that Dr. Nuri says, "We have no baselines. No data to extrapolate from. It's all theoretical. Nobody's ever tried anything even remotely close to this kind of procedure before!" (pg 90)
Proceedure? Yes. It's new to them... that means nothing except they didn't know if the implantation method would kill him or not.
TIM explains what they are doing is studying how the Reapers controlled the Collectors. He goes over quantum entanglement technology, how the nanites were recovered from collector bodies, how he expected Grayson to transform physically and how the purpose of the experiment was to study the huskification process in order to counter it. You'll also note that TIM and the scientist refer to estimates, not hard data. Read pages 86-91.
The baseline comment was not with regards to their mentioning of Indoctrination. The baseline comment was only in reference to the injection proceedure. Grayson shut down and TIM was chewing the scientist out about it. Again, nothing to do with their mentioning of Indoctrination.
So now, go back to my previous post I've left in quotes above. How is TIM or any scientist participating the experiement in any position to state authoritatively that indoctrination was taking place? I agree, it's a reasonable assumption given the fact that they are dealing with reaper technology. But an assumption is not the same as a reality.
"The timeline was only an estimate. Our research strongly suggests indoctrination and repurposing varies greatly depending on the strength of the subject."(pg 115)
Their research "suggests". Note, their reasearch did not conclude anything. The exact details of this research is unknown, but the fact that they rely of theoretical estimations instead of hard data is revealing. It is obvious that they are doing alot of guess work.
Grayson's body was repurposed. Yes.
Indoctrinated. No.
Incorrect.
They're talking about how the Indoctrination and Repurposing (BOTH OF THEM) "varies greatly depending on the strength of the subject." The scientist is talking about both of them. This is proven when the scientist talks about Indoctrination later... and says that it is Indoctrination that the Red Sand would be affecting and making things easier for concerning Grayson.
A scientist would not call it Indoctrination if it wasn't. Think about it and take the time to really read that section and its contexts.
Additionally, that whole conversation started because their timeline was off... later attributed to Grayson's resistence to the Reapers.
Everything that happened to Grayson while in that cell was overt.
Incorrect, at first he didn't even know they were there. He remembered the pain of the injection and so was on guard of something in that sense... but he specifically stated that he noted nothing at first (and later that his will was his at the time as well). Only later did the whispers come (and the whispers are well documented in other sources regarding Indoctrination).
The reapers applied no subliminal tactics.
Incorrect, the mind altering of Grayson that the Reapers performed was specifically stated to have happened while Grayson was unaware of what the Reapers had done.
You base this on what exactly?
Mass Effect 2... because of whose scientists were in the derelect Reaper and whose logs TIM could get access to through EDI.
Actual quotes please. No making claims that the book says this, or the games show that, while not offering any actual proof of said claim. You're real good at making wild unsubstantiated claims.
I'll tell you what, tell me what claim I made about the game or book saying or showing something, and I'll pull up a quote for you (if I haven't already)... if you read my previous points, most of the time I provided direct quotes... you just need to read them and accept their implications.
Read pgs 123-127
Those pages detail how the reapers were only effecting his body while on the Cerberus station, not his mind. From Grayson's first hand account, the red sand put him into a narcotic bliss that keep him from concentrating.
Incorrect, while on Red Sand he heard and understood the Reapers whispers "perfectly." His resistence to them dropped because of the Red Sand... as had been expected by TIM and his scientists.
It is never stated that Grayson was indoctrinated. Period. You have no basis to claim that TIM's assumption that indoctrination was taking place means indoctrination was actually taking place. You have no basis whatsoever to claim that TIM is an indoctrination expert who has studied it on other test subjects. You are making things up as you go along because you are too proud to admit when you are wrong.
You can make all the snide immature comments you like. Your guise of petulant arrogance does not hide your frustration over the fact that you have nothing. You were challenged to provide a single quote stating Grayson was indoctrinated. You failed. And you know it.
Incorrect. I never made a single thing up... they're all taken from the source (be it the games' narrative, book, or codex). Call me on any of it and I'll show you where it is and what they say.
That's my challenge to you... but you've already been disproven... you don't lose anything for being disproven.
Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 12 juillet 2011 - 06:26 .
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