249 réponses à ce sujet

[CptData]

Xilizhra - Liara is okay, but I still don't understand why she changed her profession that quickly after Shepard's death. Seriously, it doesn't fit, not a bit. Especially since you can have a different romance than Liara in ME. It would make more sense if your old LI tries to get you back, means, Ashley or Kaidan if you romanced one of them.

Liara was never more than a friend in ME in all of my playthroughs. I talk to her nicely but don't give her a chance to get any closer than "friendzone" - because she's simply not my type (or Shepard's type in my playthroughs) neither looks nor character-wise. I'm a bit sad you can't clear things up - except you run into that "catfight scene".

So why in heaven did Liara change that much - just for a guy that rejected her and never wanted more than friendship? Lets say my Shepard considers Joker as one of his closest friends, or Wrex - Liara doesn't play in the same league.

*sigh* My main issue is the comics don't explain why of all characters only Liara throwing her "old self" away, become more badass and such ... it just makes Liara less authentic.

[Xilizhra]

[quote]So why in heaven did Liara change that much - just for a guy that rejected her and never wanted more than friendship? Lets say my Shepard considers Joker as one of his closest friends, or Wrex - Liara doesn't play in the same league.[/quote]
Liara still cares about you. Be glad of that; even if you don't want a relationship with her, she did save your life in doing so.

[quote]*sigh* My main issue is the comics don't explain why of all characters only Liara throwing her "old self" away, become more badass and such ... it just makes Liara less authentic./quote]
It's more a rough outline of events than the actual events, in my opinion.

[quote]Xilizhra - Liara is okay, but I still don't understand why she changed her profession that quickly after Shepard's death. Seriously, it doesn't fit, not a bit. Especially since you can have a different romance than Liara in ME. It would make more sense if your old LI tries to get you back, means, Ashley or Kaidan if you romanced one of them.[/quote]
Quite frankly, neither seems all that visionary, willing to really believe that someone could be brought back from the dead. Plus, they wouldn't help Cerberus. Also, if Shepard had no LI, she'd be totally screwed. It was better to just make one plot.

[Barquiel]

Liara tried to get Shepard back because she got the anonymous tip about Feron (from Cerberus). And I think we all know why cerberus didn't contact the VS.

[Cyberstrike nTo]

Mulgen wrote...

she was my romance choice in ME1...but i played lotSB and i cant bring myself to say id pick her again in me3...(granted at the time i hadnt romanced anyone in ME2 yet so i thought, meh why not lol)

I preferred the shy aloof scientist over the cold, calculating, and  psychopathy obsessed with the SB person she was in ME2....with that insane drive you would think she would go for the drell she obsessed over for 2 years

personally i went for tali in ME2 (after i re-romanced liara in lotSB...kinda curious how that's going to play out) just because you either choose, miranda whos ego did nothing but ****** me off, jack......not my cup of tea..., or her and she kind of reminded me of liara from ME1 with the aloof type personality.


just curious if anyone else had the same feeling

No, my Shepards wanted Liara even more in Mass Effect 2 than they did in Mass Effect 1.

[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

Mulgen wrote...

atheelogos wrote...

Yeah I kinda did. I left her for Miranda. I want shep to have human children, but Miranda has that problem I want to go for Kelly or Ashley now.

  i actually let Ashley live in my recent "perfect" ME1 play though i made to carry on to my perfect ME2...ect.. on the hopes that she would have a drastic character change as well,quite frankly between the attitude and the damn poetry if she doesn't change I'm going to regret saving her and not kiden

Her attitude is what makes her character IMO. 

That sarcastic tone she uses... her brashness and toughness as well. She's also very playful and teasing. 

IDK why more people don't like her. (she's not racist, sorry!)


As for Liara, I prefer her ME2 form myself. Never cared for the whole awkward scientist thing. 

[Xilizhra]

IDK why more people don't like her. (she's not racist, sorry!)

She is xenophobic. Mildly so, but it exists. Of course, many humans are; Paragon Shepard, Kaidan and Anderson seem to be exceptions.

[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

Xilizhra wrote...

IDK why more people don't like her. (she's not racist, sorry!)

She is xenophobic. Mildly so, but it exists. Of course, many humans are; Paragon Shepard, Kaidan and Anderson seem to be exceptions.

You're wrong. But I'm not gonna debate with you about it and hijack the thread in the process. 

[Xilizhra]

xxSgt_Reed_24xx wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

IDK why more people don't like her. (she's not racist, sorry!)

She is xenophobic. Mildly so, but it exists. Of course, many humans are; Paragon Shepard, Kaidan and Anderson seem to be exceptions.

You're wrong. But I'm not gonna debate with you about it and hijack the thread in the process. 

The thread is ass regardless.
Also, "I'm no fan of aliens."

[CptData]

Xilizhra wrote..

Quite frankly, neither seems all that visionary, willing to really believe that someone could be brought back from the dead. Plus, they wouldn't help Cerberus. Also, if Shepard had no LI, she'd be totally screwed. It was better to just make one plot.

Same applies on Liara tbh. She's too naive to think any further than any "normal" person could. I simply don't understand why she comes with such "gift" - any normal person says "dead is dead, no matter how important that person was." Could say: Shepard lives because Liara doesn't seem to be a realistic person.

Next statement could offend Liaramancers, so - it's up to you if you read it or not. It's just the way how I see her and why she never got on my "potential LI radar".

Liara is nice. She's beautiful and she definitely has something. But she's also a virgin, a tad too forgiving and clingy. And - at least for Asari standards - naive. From a writers PoV I'd say Liara got designed for those 16 year olds lacking any real experience. I'm almost 30 ... so I might have some experience here. Sorry if this sounds rude, but that's my opinion.
Relationships aren't about fluffy bunnies once you hit a certain age, every decision (or the lack of) comes with consequences. In case of Liara!LI - as long as you go for her as LI none of your deeds will result in an end of that particular relationship. You even can try to convince her to have that love triangle - and she stays with you. Must say, no "real woman" would accept this if truly interested in you. Another evidence Liara!LI was written for those with less experience.

Lets put it this way: I don't like the romance arc of Liara because it doesn't feel authentic. It feels as if BW does everything to make it happen, which also leads to the (maybe wrong) idea, Liara is the series canon!LI. That makes any other LI meaningless, especially if they don't get the same development as Liara!LI in ME3. I can't imagine the nerd rage if that's the case.

Last things: if any Liaramancer felt offended, here you've got my apologies. BW allows us to play ME the way we want and also gives us more than just one romance arc. So everyone can be happy with his or her decision. I just fear BW's favoritism of Liara could spoil the experience for the rest of us.

Modifié par CptData, 13 novembre 2011 - 02:38 .

[Aurora313]

Xilizhra wrote...

xxSgt_Reed_24xx wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

IDK why more people don't like her. (she's not racist, sorry!)

She is xenophobic. Mildly so, but it exists. Of course, many humans are; Paragon Shepard, Kaidan and Anderson seem to be exceptions.

You're wrong. But I'm not gonna debate with you about it and hijack the thread in the process. 

The thread is ass regardless.
Also, "I'm no fan of aliens."

She says she's not a fan and is cautious about them. She doesn't go around with shotguns, torches and pitchforks demanding a xeno-hunt. Nor does she claim to hate them, she distrusts them. I distrust my classmates at school, doesn't mean I hate them. She begins to get along with Tali, Wrex and Garrus after spending time with them in ME1, but that's about as much experience with Aliens as she's had.

Modifié par Aurora313, 13 novembre 2011 - 02:41 .

[Asari_Party]

You need to check your definition of naiveté.

[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

Seems other Ashley fans have taken up the fight here. I was gonna suggest moving it to the Ashley thread... but here's my response, nonetheless.

Xilizhra wrote...

Also, "I'm no fan of aliens."

1. Cerberus - A highly pro-human organization. If she hated aliens that much she would have been one of the first people who signed up to work for Cerberus. A chance to screw over aliens the galaxy over would have been a great idea.

However, she puts down Cerberus on multiple occasions and even doesn't join Shepard in ME2 b/c he is working for or with that organization. "I'll never work for a group like that."

2. Terra Firma - Another highly pro-human group. She openly argues against this group when you talk to the leader in ME1. Can't recall the exact quote, but she is disgusted by the racism involved.

The reason everyone says she's racist or a xenophobe is b/c of when she says she doesn't trust Wrex or Garrus to be poking around the ship. All this is is looking to protect her and her organization's own interests. It's not... OH, I HATE THOSE STUPID ALIENS, LOCK THEM UP NAO!

It's the same as, let's say... I'm a crewmember on a naval ship here on earth and someone that gets assigned to the ship is from another countries military. We are only allies in this time of war. This guy also happens to be black. I ask my commander if we should really be letting this guy look at our ships important systems. He may be an ally, but that doesn't mean we should trust him completely. Yet, because I don't trust him... all of a sudden, I don't like black people and am racist?

Sorry, that's crap.

Modifié par xxSgt_Reed_24xx, 13 novembre 2011 - 02:46 .

[Aurora313]

^ second.

[CptData]

Roxy12 wrote...

You need to check your definition of naiveté.

Hmm ... denying reality is some form of naiveté, don't you think? What gives a person the idea to pick up a mostly burned and destroyed body to bring this dead person back to life?

I'd say the entire Liara!arc between ME and ME3 is one huge deus ex machina - and not even one I'd consider as "well written". It lacks a lot of information - why Liara, why did she what she did, how comes to her sudden change of profession etc.

To be honest: Liara!ME and Liara!ME2 are two different persons. You could have done the same by creating a new character (maybe Liara's sister or any other relative) taking place as SB in ME2. But no ... it had to be Liara. The favoritism of her character damages it and makes it less believeable. Sometimes "less means more". BW could have done differently.

That's all of it, I'm out. Lets say how Liara's character will work in ME3.

[Xilizhra]

[quote]Same applies on Liara tbh. She's too naive to think any further than any "normal" person could. I simply don't understand why she comes with such "gift" - any normal person says "dead is dead, no matter how important that person was." Could say: Shepard lives because Liara doesn't seem to be a realistic person.[/quote]
It did really happen, so Liara really was quite realistic.

[quote] But she's also a virgin, a tad too forgiving and clingy.[/quote]
Normally I encounter annoying people who see virginity as an inherently good thing, but it's always interesting to see the opposite and know the totality of the screwedness of the perceptions toward women's sex lives.

[quote]And - at least for Asari standards - naive.[/quote]
To some extent. It's little hindrance.

[quote]From a writers PoV I'd say Liara got designed for those 16 year olds lacking any real experience. I'm almost 30 ... so I might have some experience here. Sorry if this sounds rude, but that's my opinion.[/quote]
You have an opinion. Congratulations.

[quote]Relationships aren't about fluffy bunnies once you hit a certain age, every decision (or the lack of) comes with consequences.[/quote]
So you have no fluffy bunnies whatsoever? Good grief.
Note that Shepard is in fact your age.

[quote]In case of Liara!LI - as long as you go for her as LI none of your deeds will result in an end of that particular relationship.[/quote]
The case for every single LI unless you undertake a specifically loyalty-breaking action.

[quote]You even can try to convince her to have that love triangle - and she stays with you. Must say, no "real woman" would accept this if truly interested in you.[/quote]
So either you know every single woman in the world and that none of them would accept you, or you're committing No True Scotsman in what's quite frankly a rather disturbing manner: that no "real" woman could accept a three-way relationship.

[quote]Lets put it this way: I don't like the romance arc of Liara because it doesn't feel authentic. It feels as if BW does everything to make it happen, which also leads to the (maybe wrong) idea, Liara is the series canon!LI. That makes any other LI meaningless, especially if they don't get the same development as Liara!LI in ME3. I can't imagine the nerd rage if that's the case.[/quote]
Liara can't die. I agree with this, but disagree with her being the only one who can't: I believe the suicide mission and Virmire were poor ideas. But Liara can have the most development spent on her in particular because she'll always be there.

[quote]Last things: if any Liaramancer felt offended, here you've got my apologies. BW allows us to play ME the way we want and also gives us more than just one romance arc. So everyone can be happy with his or her decision. I just fear BW's favoritism of Liara could spoil the experience for the rest of us.[/quote]
Not of the Liara arc in particular.

[quote]She says she's not a fan and is cautious about them.[/quote]
In standard colloquial terms, "not a fan" is synonymous with "doesn't like," which basically means "dislike." It doesn't have to mean that, but Ashley isn't the type to give ambiguous mathematician's answers, which is what that would be.

[quote] Nor does she claim to hate them, she distrusts them.[/quote]
Distrust is a form of fear, and thus... mild xenophobia. Bingo.

[Asari_Party]

CptData wrote...

Roxy12 wrote...

You need to check your definition of naiveté.

Hmm ... denying reality is some form of naiveté, don't you think? What gives a person the idea to pick up a mostly burned and destroyed body to bring this dead person back to life?

Miranda, TIM, Wilson, the whole lazarus cell....they're all naive?

[Xilizhra]

Seems other Ashley fans have taken up the fight here. I was gonna suggest moving it to the Ashley thread... but here's my response, nonetheless.

You started the damn fight.

1. Cerberus - A highly pro-human organization. If she hated aliens that much she would have been one of the first people who signed up to work for Cerberus. A chance to screw over aliens the galaxy over would have been a great idea.

However, she puts down Cerberus on multiple occasions and even doesn't join Shepard in ME2 b/c he is working for or with that organization. "I'll never work for a group like that."

Read what I say. I didn't say she hated aliens. I said it was mild.

The reason everyone says she's racist or a xenophobe is b/c of when she says she doesn't trust Wrex or Garrus to be poking around the ship. All this is is looking to protect her and her organization's own interests. It's not... OH, I HATE THOSE STUPID ALIENS, LOCK THEM UP NAO!

Also the line I quoted. And a few things on the Citadel. And her whole spiel about distrust.

It's the same as, let's say... I'm a crewmember on a naval ship here on earth and someone that gets assigned to the ship is from another countries military. We are only allies in this time of war. This guy also happens to be black. I ask my commander if we should really be letting this guy look at our ships important systems. He may be an ally, but that doesn't mean we should trust him completely. Yet, because I don't trust him... all of a sudden, I don't like black people and am racist?

Also, all black people belong to one nation and it's perilously easy to conflate them. Which Ashley, to a slight extent, does. It's not a condemnation, just an observation.

Hmm ... denying reality is some form of naiveté, don't you think? What gives a person the idea to pick up a mostly burned and destroyed body to bring this dead person back to life?

Trust. Accurate trust.

I'd say the entire Liara!arc between ME and ME3 is one huge deus ex machina - and not even one I'd consider as "well written". It lacks a lot of information - why Liara, why did she what she did, how comes to her sudden change of profession etc.

A badly done comic.

To be honest: Liara!ME and Liara!ME2 are two different persons. You could have done the same by creating a new character (maybe Liara's sister or any other relative) taking place as SB in ME2. But no ... it had to be Liara. The favoritism of her character damages it and makes it less believeable. Sometimes "less means more". BW could have done differently.

They could have. But here, they did well.

[Asari_Party]

xxSgt_Reed_24xx wrote...

The reason everyone says she's racist or a xenophobe is b/c of when she says she doesn't trust Wrex or Garrus to be poking around the ship.

I think you're wrong.

Make nice with the bug-eyed monsters.
I am no fan of aliens.
I can't tell the difference between aliens and animals.

That's the reason why people call her racist.

[Aurora313]

Yes, MILD Xenophobia. But still, she's not calling out for witch hunts to 'purify' the galaxy from the Xeno flith. God, this isn't Warhammer here.

I'm not a fan of stargate, don't mean I dislike it either. Not a fan of my extended family, doesn't mean I hate them.

You can't honestly expect me to believe that you haven't found one person in this world and gotten the impression that you should be wary of them? Its' the same with Ash, she's basing her opinions on inexperience and the Shanxi incident. Her caution is understandable.

[Xilizhra]

Yes, MILD Xenophobia. But still, she's not calling out for witch hunts to 'purify' the galaxy from the Xeno flith. God, this isn't Warhammer here.

I didn't say it was bloody Warhammer. I've always said "mild." You're conflating me with other people.

You can't honestly expect me to believe that you haven't found one person in this world and gotten the impression that you should be wary of them? Its' the same with Ash, she's basing her opinions on inexperience and the Shanxi incident. Her caution is understandable.

Understandable, but misplaced. But that's not a condemnation.

[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

Roxy12 wrote...
Make nice with the bug-eyed monsters.

So? People call people names all the time. Say I called someone a "fatty" and said.... "hey guys, let's just make nice with fatty!" ... Doesn't mean I hate that person or ALL fat people. Just that I think that guy is fat.

So she thinks they look like a bug eyed monster. Doesn't mean she hates them!

Roxy12 wrote...
I am no fan of aliens.

I'm no fan of the Oakland Raiders. Doesn't mean I hate them.

Roxy12 wrote...
I can't tell the difference between aliens and animals.

See the first one.

[Xilizhra]

So? People call people names all the time. Say I called someone a "fatty" and said.... "hey guys, let's just make nice with fatty!" ... Doesn't mean I hate that person or ALL fat people. Just that I think that guy is fat.

It does speak of a certain bigotry unless you already know them and it's established as a term of endearment.

So she thinks they look like a bug eyed monster. Doesn't mean she hates them!

None of them are, in fact, bug-eyed monsters. So either she's high or she's using an undeniable epithet.

[Aurora313]

To be fair, the Collector are bug-eyed monsters...

sorry, lol. Had to get that in.

Modifié par Aurora313, 13 novembre 2011 - 03:12 .

[Xilizhra]

Aurora313 wrote...

To be fair, the Collector are bug-eyed monsters...

Which would work better if she ever referred to them as such.

[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

Xilizhra wrote...

None of them are, in fact, bug-eyed monsters. So either she's high or she's using an undeniable epithet.

Or that that is what they look like to her. Still doesn't mean she hates them.