228 réponses à ce sujet

[AngelicMachinery]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Raygereio wrote...

Well, except for the sentient beings who - depending on how the virus-weapon works - either just became enslaved or outright destroyed.

Nobody in their right mind cares about a bunch of computer programs. The geth are machines created for a specific purpose, nothing more than that.

As soon as something can rebel against their "Specific purpose" one must assume freedom of thought has come into affect.  The quarian's are just monsters who decided to commit genocide because they accidentally created a new race.

It's not genocide if it's a machine :innocent:

Can you think of a better word for it?  Or is this one of those things where just because something isn't made of meat it can't really be anything outside of wires and computer programs?

[Raygereio]

Saphra Deden wrote...
Nobody in their right mind cares about a bunch of computer programs. The geth are machines created for a specific purpose, nothing more than that.

I don't shed a tear when I format my harddrive. Then again, the programs stored on my harddrive aren't capable of reasoning.
The Geth were tools created for a specific purpose. True. But that changed when they begain to question their own existance and fight to preserve themselves when faced with destruction. That puts them rather close to the "sentient" catagory.

Mind you; any argument on wether or not the Geth have any worth to them is dependent on your attitude on how you view sentient beings other then your own. Which is a subject that you can't really argue about and is one of those topiccs that's just begging for flames.

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...
The final decistions will not change anything in any major way because every decision is designed to be an easy impliment in the next game.

I wanted to say that the fact that is the end of the trilogy means that BioWare has free reigh to let the player really do things. But then I remember EA/BioWare is looking to milk the franchise further after this and I'm sad.

[MalcolmM]

Tali and Legion seem to have reached a peace between them, so they make a joint peace proposal over the extranet to both parties and tentative peace negotiations begin......?

[ShadowLordXXX]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Raygereio wrote...

Well, except for the sentient beings who - depending on how the virus-weapon works - either just became enslaved or outright destroyed.

Nobody in their right mind cares about a bunch of computer programs. The geth are machines created for a specific purpose, nothing more than that.

As soon as something can rebel against their "Specific purpose" one must assume freedom of thought has come into affect.  The quarian's are just monsters who decided to commit genocide because they accidentally created a new race.

Except that at the time the Quarians didn't think the Geth had actually gained sentience, they thought they were on the precipice of attaining sentience and the Quarians believed that if they gained sentience they would inevitably turn on them.

Oh and if we're going to throw out terms like "monster" the geth are monsters for commiting genocide of the Quarians(the Geth killed billions of Quarians, men, women children indiscriminately, surely you don't believe all Quarians decided together to exterminate the Geth?) the Geth are monsters for allowing a faction of them to go out and attempt to commit genocide upon all organic races(note this is most probably what happened with the Quarians as well, I tend to imagine it was the Quarian government which decided to terminate the Geth, not a rabid mob of Quarians).

I could go even farther and name virtually every race "monsters" under the prerequisites you list but that would be a waste of time seeing as it should be farely self-evident.

[Medhia Nox]

Here's what I believe "the Canon" will be:

Legion already told Shepard that the Geth have "plans" and, when pressured, he most assuredly does not tell Shepard what those plans are.

The Geth are going to be the opposite of the Reapers. They are going to come to the logical conclusion that they were designed to assist organic life (having determined that the "Reaper Alternative is damaging and illogical). We have an example of a true AI that already desires to do this.

EDI says - in a Shadow Broker dialogue with Legion - that she limits herself to assist organics. A concept that could be said of many benevolent all-powerful entities

Despite himself, Legion also finds worth in organic individuality - in fact, the Geth might be studying the use of individuality by creating Legion in the first place.

At any rate - I believe that the Geth are going to designate themselves the caretakers of the galaxy - elevating them to the natural technological foil to the Reapers. The Reapers are clearly demonic in nature - seeking to pervert sentient life. I believe the Geth will become the angelic counterpoint to this.

Yeah - I hear a million sci-fi worshipers screaming into their secular cheerios right now.

Still - I think they're going to prove the Quarians completely wrong. Remember, the Quarians fired first... they never even tried to have a logical discussion with the Geth. Just like most people think today - the belief that machine-life would "logically" decide that organic life should be eliminated is a very popular trope.

I do not believe this would be the case. In fact - if AI were to exist, I think they would come to quite the opposite conclusion. But - the Quarian debacle plays off the existing trope.

[Raygereio]

MalcolmM wrote...
Tali and Legion seem to have reached a peace between them, so they make a joint peace proposal over the extranet to both parties and tentative peace negotiations begin......?

It will take more then that.
The Quarians will go: "Yeah! We can lure them into a trap!"
And the Geth will go:  "Hrm, the last times we did something like this, the Creators simply attacked us. Yeah, we might skip this one."

[MalcolmM]

Raygereio wrote...

It will take more then that.
The Quarians will go: "Yeah! We can lure them into a trap!"
And the Geth will go:  "Hrm, the last times we did something like this, the Creators simply attacked us. Yeah, we might skip this one."

And Moderator Shepard will remind both parties that he has and knows how to use a supergun and will not hesitate to use it on any sign of duplicity from either party.

[Smeelia]

Saphra Deden wrote...

As for an optimal solution: Daro'Xen finishes Rael's work and uses his viral weapon to return all the geth to quarian control. This is the best outcome for everyone. It guarantees trust, protection, and efficiency.

Ignoring the philosophical issues, there's still the fact that the Quarians suddenly obtain a large and dangerous force.  That could be a problem for other races.  Then there's the risk that someone else could control the Geth (such as humans, using the results of Project Overlord) and use them against the Quarians.

[Thargorichiban]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...
It's not genocide if it's a machine :innocent:

Can you think of a better word for it?  Or is this one of those things where just because something isn't made of meat it can't really be anything outside of wires and computer programs?

Maybe not a word, but a phrase: "Correcting a mistake."

So is that what Reapers are doing then? "Correcting the mistake of organic life?"

[ISpeakTheTruth]

Saphra Deden wrote...

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

Are we not listening? The final decistions will not change anything in any major way...

The details matter. At some point they have to explain the history and that means establishing canon.

Are you listening?

Which is why I've said three times now that no matter what your decision is things will eventually go back to the status quo. So when they talk about the history the history will be what it is now with both sides not liking eachother and neither one having changed anything signifigantly between the two.

Reading what I say is important.

[Smeelia]

Saphra Deden wrote...

I am looking at this problem from the perspective of the quarians and I guarantee you the quarians don't give a **** about anyone else.

(nor should they)

That'd make things worse, a reckless disregard for the other races would make the new Quarian/Geth threat a high priority to be dealt with.

[Smeelia]

Saphra Deden wrote...

"To be dealt with"?

What does that mean? Nobody is going to attack them but they will be far more willing to listen to them. Gaining strength is what the quarians want and need.

They're not going to just ignore the Geth now that the Quarians control them, they'll still be almost as much of a threat as before and having countermeasures would be desireable even if they're not needed.  Also, if you believe the Quarians would disregard the other races then it makes sense that the other races wouldn't care about the Quarians and would be happy to take their new toys off their hands.

[Thargorichiban]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Smeelia wrote...

They're not going to just ignore the Geth now that the Quarians control them,

Why? They were content to ignore the geth for centuries when the quarians didn't control them. At least they have dipolmatic relations with the quarians.

By diplomatic relations do you mean when they threaten the flotilla to get out of a system with force? Or when they give the flotilla junk ships as incentive to get out of dodge?

They would probably be ill-inclined to believe that the Quarians were going to be completely peaceful if they take over the Geth if only due to the fact the last time somebody took over a large amount of Geth (Saren) things didn't work out too well for the Council.

[PhantomSpectre]

There is never really going to be optimal solution.

Geth's just wants to build their own future and that organics would left them alone. And Quarians wants their homeworld back. They even ready to go to war, though they know they will most likely lose it. This problem would be solved simply by Geth giving Quarians their homeworld back. This would take reason away form Quarians to fight against Geth, because so far the whole purpose for all the war talks was to get Rannoch back. And when they get, they should be happy. If Quarian still wants to fight, then they are simply idiots.

After that all the they need to do is to keep up mutual nonchalance. Both sides just leave the other alone and there is no more fighting.

[Seboist]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Raygereio wrote...

Well, except for the sentient beings who - depending on how the virus-weapon works - either just became enslaved or outright destroyed.

Nobody in their right mind cares about a bunch of computer programs. The geth are machines created for a specific purpose, nothing more than that.

As soon as something can rebel against their "Specific purpose" one must assume freedom of thought has come into affect.  The quarian's are just monsters who decided to commit genocide because they accidentally created a new race.

It's not genocide if it's a machine :innocent:

Can you think of a better word for it?  Or is this one of those things where just because something isn't made of meat it can't really be anything outside of wires and computer programs?

"Technocide".

[Thargorichiban]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Thargorichiban wrote...

They would probably be ill-inclined to believe that the Quarians were going to be completely peaceful if they take over the Geth if only due to the fact the last time somebody took over a large amount of Geth (Saren) things didn't work out too well for the Council.

So, you are telling me they are going to go to war with the quarians even though the quarians have never attacked them? That's stupid.

They didn't attack humanity when humanity started building up. They didn't even attack humanity when it took over the Citadel.

They are not going to commit to a war against a distant foe who has not shown them any aggression.

If the quarians gain control of the geth I'm sure they'll all be concerned, but all it will amount to is increased security along their own borders.

I know this is pointless to ask, but I do request that you people try and use your brains for once.

Well, well, making personal insults? A bit trollish of you.

By your logic displayed in this thread the Geth have never been sentient and have only done what they have been programmed to do. If you follow through that logic like a certain Turian Councillor you might deduce that since the Geth attacked the Council it was directly the Quarians fault for creating the Geth in the first place!

Of course, that's only if I used my brain for once.

[Smeelia]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Why? They were content to ignore the geth for centuries when the quarians didn't control them. At least they have dipolmatic relations with the quarians.

The Geth were never really seen as a threat before, I doubt they were ignored so much as considered not worth the cost/risk of bothering.  It'd be pretty clear that it would be worth looking into taking control (or at least mitigating the threat) and if the Quarians proved it was possible then others would also have an interest in claiming that force (or at least protecting themselves from it, it's easier to prepare for a known potential threat than an unknown one as the Geth were before).

I wouldn't really expect it to be too different from any other race gaining new technology or knowledge, such as when the other races adopted Carriers after humanity demonstrated their usefulness.  It's simply a matter of staying competitive.