228 réponses à ce sujet

[ME-ParaShep]

As I read the posts in this thread, I notice that there are A LOT of renegade thinkers. I for one will make a say in stand of the paragon side.

The True Geth and the Quarians are two warring races that are fighting each other over a misunderstanding. The misunderstanding is that the True Geth aren't the enemies. The Heretic Geth that is/was the splinter group of the whole Geth faction was the one who are fighting for the wrongs. The Quarians don't see that there are Geth who want peace and understanding. Another thing was that it was wrong for the Quarians to try and destroy the Geth because they thought they had no right to have a free will. Geth (because they are unified and cohesive with one another in a truly intelligent and sentient likeliness) try to find a meaning for their existence. Currently all they want is a place for their own and to prosper. Just like many of the space faring races out there in the galaxy.

To destroy or enslave the Geth is safe, that is true, but going along that path is also unsafe because since you are threatening their existence, they will counter with unhesitation. Any race would unhesitantly fight back a major threat in order to secure their own species safety and prosperity. Is it wrong to believe that living with the True Geth, a race of machines that think for themselves and strive for peace, brings about true galactic security? The True Geth can be the best of allies and friends, but not if everyone is trying to kill them off or enslave them.

How would you feel if you were in Legion's position? Would you rather die trying to defend your race in a cause that won't be good for any one else besides your race or would you find an alternative and find the courage to stand up to those who see you as a threat and speak out for your people and try to formluate a consensus to gain mutual understanding, stability, and peace between the warring species?

With the latter, you can bring about the best type of prosperity: sharing ideas, culture, harmony, strength, and love to better everyone. With the former, one or more races will suffer more and eventually there will be repercussions for those actions. The warring won't stop and it will only advance. People who have wishful thinking in violence are ignorant to their confidence in annihilating or taking over a species. They will sacrifice ample amounts of their sons, daughters, husbands, wives, etc to find peace.

I believe the Quarians and the True Geth shouldn't have to fight over something so trivial as slavery and death. They should be fighting over peace and unity not amongst each other because isn't that what the Quarians and True Geth want? The Quarians want worlds for themselves and to be apart of the galaxies positively recognized races. The True Geth want to be understood and to find a reason to live and a place for their own with true unity. Geth hurting Quarians and Quarians hurting Geth only result in constant pain for years to come. With peaceful thinking, the pain is lessened by a great amount. Be friendly and diplomatic for a change. I don't see any better optimal solution than that.

[l DryIce l]

ME-ParaShep wrote...

As I read the posts in this thread, I notice that there are A LOT of renegade thinkers. I for one will make a say in stand of the paragon side.

The True Geth and the Quarians are two warring races that are fighting each other over a misunderstanding. The misunderstanding is that the True Geth aren't the enemies. The Heretic Geth that is/was the splinter group of the whole Geth faction was the one who are fighting for the wrongs. The Quarians don't see that there are Geth who want peace and understanding. Another thing was that it was wrong for the Quarians to try and destroy the Geth because they thought they had no right to have a free will. Geth (because they are unified and cohesive with one another in a truly intelligent and sentient likeliness) try to find a meaning for their existence. Currently all they want is a place for their own and to prosper. Just like many of the space faring races out there in the galaxy.

To destroy or enslave the Geth is safe, that is true, but going along that path is also unsafe because since you are threatening their existence, they will counter with unhesitation. Any race would unhesitantly fight back a major threat in order to secure their own species safety and prosperity. Is it wrong to believe that living with the True Geth, a race of machines that think for themselves and strive for peace, brings about true galactic security? The True Geth can be the best of allies and friends, but not if everyone is trying to kill them off or enslave them.

How would you feel if you were in Legion's position? Would you rather die trying to defend your race in a cause that won't be good for any one else besides your race or would you find an alternative and find the courage to stand up to those who see you as a threat and speak out for your people and try to formluate a consensus to gain mutual understanding, stability, and peace between the warring species?

With the latter, you can bring about the best type of prosperity: sharing ideas, culture, harmony, strength, and love to better everyone. With the former, one or more races will suffer more and eventually there will be repercussions for those actions. The warring won't stop and it will only advance. People who have wishful thinking in violence are ignorant to their confidence in annihilating or taking over a species. They will sacrifice ample amounts of their sons, daughters, husbands, wives, etc to find peace.

I believe the Quarians and the True Geth shouldn't have to fight over something so trivial as slavery and death. They should be fighting over peace and unity not amongst each other because isn't that what the Quarians and True Geth want? The Quarians want worlds for themselves and to be apart of the galaxies positively recognized races. The True Geth want to be understood and to find a reason to live and a place for their own with true unity. Geth hurting Quarians and Quarians hurting Geth only result in constant pain for years to come. With peaceful thinking, the pain is lessened by a great amount. Be friendly and diplomatic for a change. I don't see any better optimal solution than that.

They should be fighting over peace? 
*mind explodes*

[Hydralisk]

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

They will not designate one player decision as canon and another non-canon in an RPG. The only way to ensure that continuity is maintained for any future game is to clearly foreshadow or out right say that despite whatever you decided to do things more or less went back to the way they were.

Bioware has always done this no decision in any of the games drastically affect anything in the next game. DA:O your mage wants circle mages freed in DA2 they aren't. In ME1 you save/let the council die in ME2 You either get a cameo for a moment or a few more lines from Udina but nothing that changes the game.

I'm pretty sure if they made another ME game it would either take place in the past or 1000 years into the future.

[Quole]

ThanesSniper wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

ThanesSniper wrote...

I'd just leave things as they are. It's been working out fine so far. Quarians in the Flotilla, and the Geth on the homeworld.

The quarians are slowly dying out.

Shouldn't have created the Geth then. Their fault. When have robots ever been a good idea?

So all the quarians now should die because of something they had no part in?
The geth were created 300 years ago, so your logic is incredibly flawed.

Modifié par Quole, 30 juin 2011 - 04:30 .

[ME-ParaShep]

l DryIce l wrote...

ME-ParaShep wrote...

As I read the posts in this thread, I notice that there are A LOT of renegade thinkers. I for one will make a say in stand of the paragon side.

The True Geth and the Quarians are two warring races that are fighting each other over a misunderstanding. The misunderstanding is that the True Geth aren't the enemies. The Heretic Geth that is/was the splinter group of the whole Geth faction was the one who are fighting for the wrongs. The Quarians don't see that there are Geth who want peace and understanding. Another thing was that it was wrong for the Quarians to try and destroy the Geth because they thought they had no right to have a free will. Geth (because they are unified and cohesive with one another in a truly intelligent and sentient likeliness) try to find a meaning for their existence. Currently all they want is a place for their own and to prosper. Just like many of the space faring races out there in the galaxy.

To destroy or enslave the Geth is safe, that is true, but going along that path is also unsafe because since you are threatening their existence, they will counter with unhesitation. Any race would unhesitantly fight back a major threat in order to secure their own species safety and prosperity. Is it wrong to believe that living with the True Geth, a race of machines that think for themselves and strive for peace, brings about true galactic security? The True Geth can be the best of allies and friends, but not if everyone is trying to kill them off or enslave them.

How would you feel if you were in Legion's position? Would you rather die trying to defend your race in a cause that won't be good for any one else besides your race or would you find an alternative and find the courage to stand up to those who see you as a threat and speak out for your people and try to formluate a consensus to gain mutual understanding, stability, and peace between the warring species?

With the latter, you can bring about the best type of prosperity: sharing ideas, culture, harmony, strength, and love to better everyone. With the former, one or more races will suffer more and eventually there will be repercussions for those actions. The warring won't stop and it will only advance. People who have wishful thinking in violence are ignorant to their confidence in annihilating or taking over a species. They will sacrifice ample amounts of their sons, daughters, husbands, wives, etc to find peace.

I believe the Quarians and the True Geth shouldn't have to fight over something so trivial as slavery and death. They should be fighting over peace and unity not amongst each other because isn't that what the Quarians and True Geth want? The Quarians want worlds for themselves and to be apart of the galaxies positively recognized races. The True Geth want to be understood and to find a reason to live and a place for their own with true unity. Geth hurting Quarians and Quarians hurting Geth only result in constant pain for years to come. With peaceful thinking, the pain is lessened by a great amount. Be friendly and diplomatic for a change. I don't see any better optimal solution than that.

They should be fighting over peace? 
*mind explodes*

If you read correctly, I said "They should be fighting over peace and unity not amongst each other" meaning they should be fighting over the basis of peace and unity, but not with each other (each other meaning Quarians and Geth)". The Geth and Quarians should be fighting for peace and unity; however they shouldn't fight each other to have peace and unity. You're thinking of "fighting" as violence. I'm thinking of that word as a reason to push for something.

[ThePwener]

First - the Quarians have never fought the Geth after the Morning war

Second - The Quarians can get they're planets back because the Geth live in space stations and have been rebuilding the Quarian worlds for centuries

Third - The Heretic Geth don't exist anymore if you were smart in ME2

[l DryIce l]

@ParaShep - I knew what you meant. 

Modifié par l DryIce l, 30 juin 2011 - 04:34 .

[ME-ParaShep]

l DryIce l wrote...

@ParaShep - I knew what you meant. 

OK But yeah, hopefully in my ME 3 playthrough, it'll be that the Geth and Quarians really reach for peace together. It would be BEAUTIFUL

*Insert Shepard rape face here*

[RolandX9]

Saphra Deden wrote...

PhantomSpectre wrote...

I Rewrited them, so I obviously know that it's possible to force some ideas at Geth.

So you're a hypocrite then.

Not necessarily.

I wouldn't have even considered rewriting the geth heretics...had it not been for Legion's perspective on the matter. They argued that the virus would be a transformation of perspective -- correcting a mathematical error was their analogy -- and that while they were divided on the subject, generally considered a rewrite the more ethical -- but riskier -- choice. It might not have worked, while blowing them up was a slam dunk. Though my Colonist Shepard loathed the notion of forcing thoughts on anyone, in the end he trusted Legion to know their kind better than he did.

Long story, short version: whether the geth are "alive" or not isn't the issue. They're capable of free will and choice, and that's the moral facet of the question. Robert Heinlein once defined the beginning of sentience as the ability to ask "what's in it for me?", and the geth are capable of asking that question. They're not "machines" the way a toaster is. They're just alien, and their rights and opinions are no less valid than those of the salarians or the rachni.

[nhsk]

Rewriting / detroying the Heretic Geth was one of the major decisions in my first playthrough that actually made me stop up and wonder for about 10 minutes

[RolandX9]

Reapinger wrote...

Sorry, but from the Geth perspective they have no reason to do a thing for the Quarians and owe them no favors. I think I will be siding with the Geth on this one.

Okay, I have to ask... 1)why "side" with one or the other if an option exists to get both sides to play nice? 2)Getting a leg up in their unity efforts strikes me as a reason, and a compelling one at that. It's not a favor, it's a trade. Each side gets something it wants.

[sponge56]

YOUR ALL WRONG- the end

[Fordtransit]

A hint: universe loves divercity. Why? Diverce base of intellegence have better chanses of survival.

I hate the idea, that someone sentinent is being massacred. Brain****ed, its different, not good, but to prevent genocide, yeah i go for it.

In realaty, The true Geth may be the the mightiest military muscle in the galaxy.
Why?

Because out of airplanes wight today ouvr 50% is life support for the crew. Wiht spacehips it would be even bigger part of it. So, if you dont need life support, what do you put in your ships?

Guns and armour.

So for the same size of a ship, the Geth ship would have aprox 50% advantige in armour and weapons.

Now, the true geth have not attacked not the Quarians or enybody else in last 320 years. They state that they reconize indipendece and the right of self determinantion foe every sentinent race, but they are threattened by reapers.

As AI, they dont want credits for the labor, or sleep or eat or **** or get drunk. Just good maintanance. So compared to human workers, maing 8 hrs a shift, the geth works 24 hr a day, thats like the 4 times of efficency? Does this matter in war? Yes, it like production capability multiplied by 4 times?

So it seems to me, that The Geth will clean up the galaxy, you just have to do the clean up of your home worlds, because the true geth do not want go there shooting..

So, the optimal outcome for Quarian vs Geth situatuion - co-exsistance of course.

[DarthSliver]

I said in another thread but the question is who is at fault with the Quarian and Geth war they still seem to be at 300 years later and the answer to that is the Quarians. The Geth only wish to make peace with their Maker(The Quarians) but their Maker to this day is hell bent on destroying them still, even after 300 years of complete failure. It would seem the Quarians never heard of history classes, its known to be there so we dont repeat pass mistakes, only make new ones. I mean its so bad that the Geth are warying about Organics completely because of what the Quarians did, to the point that the Geth need to use an intermediate like Sheperd just to try at a peace exchange again.
So I will choose to side with the one who wants to make Peace, not the side that desires to keep a futilely war going when the simplest solution is to make Peace like the other side desires. But it is known that its the simplest solutions that are hard to do.

[Fordtransit]

There more to it!
.
The Legion said: "Nazara was looking for allies for senturies". The geth were contacted by reaper Nazara after The Morning war. Some geth agreed to work with him others not.

When did it happend? like 300 years ago. Lets remenber that.

Sheppard asked Legion - "Are the reapers a threat to you too? "
Legion answered: "They are because the geth are otside the reapers plans."

So the geth know that they are threttened for how long now? 300 years. What have they being during the last 300 years?

I can not imagine The geth chilling and hanging around and waiting that "Well someone will come, some organic mammel and will take care of this for us, so dont worry beee happy???"

Probably more like this:
In geth hangout in geth space:

Geth One talks to others, "Welll, the Reapers.."
Geth two goes: "Who?"
Geth three says :"The big dude, came to us to to get help to screw organics"
Geth four:" And he have been screwing them before, meny meny times, but there is some major glich now"

Geth two: "So? Hellou, how does it matters? We just finished with creators and it was ugly, i dont want to do it any more.!"

Geth One :" Well, if they sucseeds, then tehy come for us"
Geth Three :"With his pals you know"
Geth Four: "The organics will be sooo srewed all ouver.."

Geth Two :"SO?"

Geth One: "I guess we have to go prepare ourselves"
Geth Three "Yepp, we need to make some kick ass big hunking space guns... he was a two kilometer long you know"
Geth Four:" And we need meny of them, for hes pals you know."

Geth Two: "Well, we agree. It is the only logical conclusion. We go mining. See ya!"


Now there is the brainwashing question in ME2. If you keep the Geth alive, then they are the only sentinent beings who have been in contact with reaper and more importently, know a thing or two about "how stuff works" inside reaper, what tech it uses, powersource etc etc.
No one other have been so close to actual reaper and walked avay - of course the Normandy now too, but normandy bearly escaped the encounter first.
And then managed to blow up reaper research facilities (the collector base)

The geth had spent some prolonged time with Nazara and learned a lot i guess.

And there comes the Geth Six :" Hey gys, well i was brainwashed by Legion and this Shep dude, it is ok. No hard feelings.
And i know now how to make our guns to shoot the bastards Reapers out of sky wery quickly"

[Reever]

If the quarians once again take control of the Geth, then the Galaxy may once again be endangered ( especially if that Xen gurl is in command...).
So I do hope there´s a way to reconcile them!

[Merenos]

Hey I'm really curious about something; if the quarians and geth will never get along than how come nobody cared when I brought legion into the quarian fleet during ME2? I'm not joking they let him in.

[Terastar]

My Commander Shepard needs peace so I hope that it will be an option.
I would like to propose that the Geth remain a true neutral except in the case of self-preservation. If they are attacked or threatened then they have every right to defend themselves and make allies of other species for their survival. Once the conflict is over they should return back to a true neutral stance.
This neutral stance would allow the Geth to not be feared by all other species. This would also assure that the Geth will not be dragged into civil wars or make allies of one group over another. Further details( like give back the Quarian home world and move from directly overhead to some other place) could be worked on after the Reaper War is over. The Reapers would destroy or enslave the Geth so they would be free to form any alliances that they wish. I will hope it would be with My Shepard and who ever else I can gain as allies and not with the Reapers.
The Quarian need their home world and the Geth will give it back to them.The Geth hopefully can be convinced to move from directly overhead to someplace else. The Quarian do not need go to their home world until after the Reaper war because of the immunity factors. The Quarian really needs to understand about the Heretic Geth and the True Geth. They need to except that the Geth are here to stay and come to terms with them.

[Goneaviking]

I would encourage the Quarians to attack the Geth. When the Geth have finished killing off the Quarians the world will be a much safer place having removed a significant faction of ideological zealots from it.

If we leave the Geth alone, they'll leave us alone. The Quarians will just try to drag us into their own unnecessary wars if we let them. Also, I wouldn't trust them with a robot army.

[Quole]

DarthSliver wrote...

I said in another thread but the question is who is at fault with the Quarian and Geth war they still seem to be at 300 years later and the answer to that is the Quarians. The Geth only wish to make peace with their Maker(The Quarians) but their Maker to this day is hell bent on destroying them still, even after 300 years of complete failure. It would seem the Quarians never heard of history classes, its known to be there so we dont repeat pass mistakes, only make new ones. I mean its so bad that the Geth are warying about Organics completely because of what the Quarians did, to the point that the Geth need to use an intermediate like Sheperd just to try at a peace exchange again.
So I will choose to side with the one who wants to make Peace, not the side that desires to keep a futilely war going when the simplest solution is to make Peace like the other side desires. But it is known that its the simplest solutions that are hard to do.

Actually I would argue its the geth`s fault. They have never attempted to communicate witht the quarians. To this point, the only experience the Quarians have witht he geth is with the heretics. So how can you blame them for being hostile?
The true Geth say they want peace in yet they have never tried to achieve it.
None of the quarians even know about the `true geth`

Modifié par Quole, 30 juin 2011 - 10:05 .

[Quole]

Goneaviking wrote...

I would encourage the Quarians to attack the Geth. When the Geth have finished killing off the Quarians the world will be a much safer place having removed a significant faction of ideological zealots from it.

If we leave the Geth alone, they'll leave us alone. The Quarians will just try to drag us into their own unnecessary wars if we let them. Also, I wouldn't trust them with a robot army.

So you want the geth and the quarians at war for when the reapers show up? Thats smart.

Modifié par Quole, 30 juin 2011 - 10:04 .

[Merenos]

Goneaviking wrote...

I would encourage the Quarians to attack the Geth. When the Geth have finished killing off the Quarians the world will be a much safer place having removed a significant faction of ideological zealots from it.

If we leave the Geth alone, they'll leave us alone. The Quarians will just try to drag us into their own unnecessary wars if we let them. Also, I wouldn't trust them with a robot army.

Hey, I like the Quarians (I like the geth too but oh-well) I think both races(and/or synthetic beings) give the universe flavor!

[naledgeborn]

For some reason when I think of the Quarian vs Geth conflict I'm reminded of this.


It seems like the best metaphorical solution and a sound tactic for the Reaper War.

[Goneaviking]

Quole wrote...

Goneaviking wrote...

I would encourage the Quarians to attack the Geth. When the Geth have finished killing off the Quarians the world will be a much safer place having removed a significant faction of ideological zealots from it.

If we leave the Geth alone, they'll leave us alone. The Quarians will just try to drag us into their own unnecessary wars if we let them. Also, I wouldn't trust them with a robot army.

So you want the geth and the quarians at war for when the reapers show up? Thats smart.

I want it over before the Reapers show up.

The Quarians haven't got a prayer in a war against the Geth, they're in a weaker position than they were in 300 years ago but they're still pushing for an invasion.

You think anyone that twisted is going to be a worthwhile ally?

The Geth will finish them off in a month and then be ready to help against the Old Machines.