125 réponses à ce sujet

[Repearized Miranda]

Dangerfoot wrote...

Repearized Miranda wrote...

Dangerfoot wrote...

None of that really explains why an overheated omni tool would stop you from using combat or biotic abilities.

That's the point, it doesn't stop you from using them; it stops you from using them indefinitely!

Just as the temporary overheating lock in ME1 stopped you from perpetually spraying people! Yet, folks say that system is better than TCs; however, you couldn't indefinitely fire your weapon if you ran out of ammo nor would you know this will eventually happen.

Someone had given the technical reasoning for it. I just put it in a real-world scenario.

I understand why overheating your weapon stops you from using your weapon, and I get why overheating your omni tool stops you from using tech powers, but I still don't see how an overheated omni tool would stop you from using an Adreneline Rush or your Biotic abilities that come from your body.

Hmm ... the "from your body" part I don't understand.  I'm think in animation terms because from what I see ...

If you mean like if Mianda uses Warp or Jack uses pull where the bodies light up before said power "comes off their hands," I think that's just the game's way of telling you that said character is using a power. (Like if you threw an object, wouldn't your arm come back first even if you didn't actually throw it?)

I don't play Soldier, so my explanation could be totally off.

(Btw, I apologize for having misinterpreted you)

[JayhartRIC]

Even if that was implemented it would only help the Sentinel since that is the only biotic/tech class and they are already powerful enough.

[Shepard the Leper]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

commander shepard will save the galaxy, not commandeer shepard and the two squadmates with sabotage

Shepard wouldn't be much of a commander without anyone to command, eh?

[Dangerfoot]

Repearized Miranda wrote...
Hmm ... the "from your body" part I don't understand.  I'm think in animation terms because from what I see ...

As far as I know (granted I'm no lore hound) Biotics are a part of you and not something that your omni tool does. In ME1 you could equip implants, but I think those were just supposed to be machines that helped your body cope with the power. I guess all I was trying to get at is that tech powers and biotics should be on different cooldowns for story purposes, but I honestly don't really care that much. I just kind of kept responding due to not feeling clear enough, haha.

(Btw, I apologize for having misinterpreted you)

"Human nobility, I didn't know such a thing existed."

[Repearized Miranda]

Dangerfoot wrote...

Repearized Miranda wrote...
Hmm ... the "from your body" part I don't understand.  I'm think in animation terms because from what I see ...

As far as I know (granted I'm no lore hound) Biotics are a part of you and not something that your omni tool does. In ME1 you could equip implants, but I think those were just supposed to be machines that helped your body cope with the power. I guess all I was trying to get at is that tech powers and biotics should be on different cooldowns for story purposes, but I honestly don't really care that much. I just kind of kept responding due to not feeling clear enough, haha.

(Btw, I apologize for having misinterpreted you)

"Human nobility, I didn't know such a thing existed."

Ah, I see! No quams!

Sure, until you ****** that human off! 

[Varen Spectre]

So far, I agree with critics of global cooldown. 

IMO, as long as abilities are not equally powerful / useful or as long as level design does not prompt the player to use different abilities at different points of levels, the player will again resort to use one more powerful ability (- signature ability like adrenaline rush) at the expense of others almost all the time. Especially now that we will be able to tailor that power according to our needs.

And that makes the gameplay kind of monotonous. Or at least monotonous in comparison with gameplay where the use of different powers is not mutually exclusive. Of course, even now I can arbitrarily opt for less powerful / useful ability just to refine my playstyle, but I think that it is not a good design choice, if the player has to choose from several mutually exclusssive options, which are not equally benefitial to him. Not if one option is clearly better during the whole game.

BTW, what happened to that idea of partial global cooldown and partial individual cooldown. Last time I checked, majority of forum members were in agreement with it and it indeed seemed like one of possible compromises.   

[Mixon]

Sentinel in ME2 was not so awesome like in ME1 cuz of global cd's

[Stardusk78]

This thread...again.

[SAE100]

@Biotics: Almost all biotics besides Asari I think need special implants to use their abilities to their full effect. Those implants might be overheated which means you can´t create powerfull enough mass effect fields.
@Adrenalin Rush: I always thought this was some kind of combat drug injection abusing the system that injects medigel if you´re hurt of your armor. So this system might be overheated as well.

[Someone With Mass]

Regarding biotics: it's just tiring for them to use many biotic attacks in a row, as it drains their energy. That's why they need much more food than normal people.

[JayhartRIC]

Mixon wrote...

Sentinel in ME2 was not so awesome like in ME1 cuz of global cd's

*insert Youtube vid of Sentinel dominating*

[Frybread76]

Global cooldowns. Great. Well, it might still be a good game, but ME3 just went from a buy to a rental for me.

[Repearized Miranda]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

This is global cooldown




Am I doing it right?

^ Yes, This!! (Of course, you realize the social tone provided the pic)

[Ahglock]

Varen Spectre wrote...

So far, I agree with critics of global cooldown. 

IMO, as long as abilities are not equally powerful / useful or as long as level design does not prompt the player to use different abilities at different points of levels, the player will again resort to use one more powerful ability (- signature ability like adrenaline rush) at the expense of others almost all the time. Especially now that we will be able to tailor that power according to our needs.

And that makes the gameplay kind of monotonous. Or at least monotonous in comparison with gameplay where the use of different powers is not mutually exclusive. Of course, even now I can arbitrarily opt for less powerful / useful ability just to refine my playstyle, but I think that it is not a good design choice, if the player has to choose from several mutually exclusssive options, which are not equally benefitial to him. Not if one option is clearly better during the whole game.

BTW, what happened to that idea of partial global cooldown and partial individual cooldown. Last time I checked, majority of forum members were in agreement with it and it indeed seemed like one of possible compromises.   

This is my only issue with global cooldowns.  For far too many classes they devolve into the one button wonders and basically cap out in power by level 10ish.  

[sbvera13]

While ME1 definately needed better balance, the GCD from ME2 is just terrible.  But then, a lot of things from ME2 were just terrible, like rendering 80% of all CC powers useless on higher difficulty settings because of the defense immunity thing.  Did nobody think of matching particular attacks to particular defenses?

A hybrid system would work much better.  Put a 3 second GCD on every power, and a longer CD on individual powers once used.  So you could pull, then 3 seconds later throw, but have to wait 9 seconds to pull again (or whatever the exact numbers should be. playtesting ftw).  Much better then sticking EVERYTHING on the same penalty.

[The Spamming Troll]

Varen Spectre wrote...

BTW, what happened to that idea of partial global cooldown and partial individual cooldown. Last time I checked, majority of forum members were in agreement with it and it indeed seemed like one of possible compromises.   

its becasue this game isnt being made for you and me. its being made for john mcnoob who just wants to rent ME3 on some random weekend, who might be too confused with weapons that overheat, or having to watch a handfull of cooldown meters.

nobody wants planets scanning but thats making a comeback.

to me it seems like bioware thinks ME1 wasnt worth saving, but ME2 is.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 30 juin 2011 - 06:59 .

[sbvera13]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

Varen Spectre wrote...

BTW, what happened to that idea of partial global cooldown and partial individual cooldown. Last time I checked, majority of forum members were in agreement with it and it indeed seemed like one of possible compromises.   

its becasue this game isnt being made for you and me. its being made for john mcnoob who just wants to rent ME3 on some random weekend, who might be too confused with weapons that overheat, or having to watch a handfull of cooldown meters.

nobody wants planets scanning but thats making a comeback.

to me it seems like bioware thinks ME1 wasnt worth saving, but ME2 is.

ME1 was the Blade Runner of gaming. Epic, inspired (aritistically, musically, story-ly. also, under appreciated-ly), it created an amazing sci-fi universe with many unique elements (very impressive, considering the number of sci-fi universes available) and integrated them seamlessly into a very well told story with a stunning cinematic presentation.  It was marvelous, and a few gameplay hangups don't hold it back.

ME2 is kind of like Bioshock in space, but with less storytelling and inferior combat.  I can see which one they want to emulate.

Modifié par sbvera13, 30 juin 2011 - 07:04 .

[Bnol]

sbvera13 wrote...

While ME1 definately needed better balance, the GCD from ME2 is just terrible.  But then, a lot of things from ME2 were just terrible, like rendering 80% of all CC powers useless on higher difficulty settings because of the defense immunity thing.  Did nobody think of matching particular attacks to particular defenses?

A hybrid system would work much better.  Put a 3 second GCD on every power, and a longer CD on individual powers once used.  So you could pull, then 3 seconds later throw, but have to wait 9 seconds to pull again (or whatever the exact numbers should be. playtesting ftw).  Much better then sticking EVERYTHING on the same penalty.

That would definitely be preferable to the current system, just because of the huge power differences in abilities.  I personally would like a GCD that is half the CD of the base power, such that you aren't using a power every 3 seconds and it allows further tweaking of the relative power of the skill and raises the skillcap of the game not having an ability every 3 seconds.

[The Spamming Troll]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Regarding biotics: it's just tiring for them to use many biotic attacks in a row, as it drains their energy. That's why they need much more food than normal people.

ive never seen shepard even a little exhausted after using biotics, nor did i ever have to eat wrexs leftover lasagna.

i see nothing of the sort when im playing the ME game, so whats the point? we can just make up things about biotics? miht as well say biotics come from a high number of midichlorans in yor blood.

[HTTP 404]

seperate them to tech and biotic

[Arrow70]

Frybread76 wrote...

Global cooldowns. Great. Well, it might still be a good game, but ME3 just went from a buy to a rental for me.

If someting so trivial will prevent you from buying this game then you shouldn't be playing any Mass Effect, Period.

[Repearized Miranda]

sbvera13 wrote...

While ME1 definately needed better balance, the GCD from ME2 is just terrible.  But then, a lot of things from ME2 were just terrible, like rendering 80% of all CC powers useless on higher difficulty settings because of the defense immunity thing.  Did nobody think of matching particular attacks to particular defenses?

A hybrid system would work much better.  Put a 3 second GCD on every power, and a longer CD on individual powers once used.  So you could pull, then 3 seconds later throw, but have to wait 9 seconds to pull again (or whatever the exact numbers should be. playtesting ftw).  Much better then sticking EVERYTHING on the same penalty.

That's probably the reason. Then, again, they did say that all powers worked, too. So, people for the most part just opted - for the most powerful one - not necessarily the most effective. Yet, the tips made this seem like they were interchangable.

ie: Incenerate is most effective against armor; however, Miranda's heavy warp often took out a Scion faster than Mordin's equalivent Incenerate. Adversely, though, distance is taking into consideration as well because if both attacks were thrown from a distance rather than up close, it seems like Mordin's Incenerate beats out Miranda's Warp despite Warp being the heavier power.

Compare that to a husk though. It would seem that even on Insanity Mordin beats clearly out Miranda because it is a "matched" power. Warp still does damage, but Miranda has to toss more to ensure the kill. Likewise, Warp clearly beats Incenerate when faced with Barriers. Doesn't mean Mordin can't penetrate a barrier ... (Wait! This just went someplace horrible). Mordin can dimish a barrier, but due to the mismatched, it'll take alot more of effort.

In short, BW wasn't quite clear wth the wording. (All powers, but this is the most effective) 

Having said this, regardless of those tips, players can still judge for themselves which is why the signature power sees more frequently use.

99% of enemies for me, were taken out with Warp (strength) - including mechs - whom also felt their share of Overload (effectiveness) as well; however, I used Warp less frequently than Overload on those enemies. As mentioned above though, distance was the determining factor for me. (Far away, Warp; Up close, Overload.)

[HTTP 404]

Arrow70 wrote...

Frybread76 wrote...

Global cooldowns. Great. Well, it might still be a good game, but ME3 just went from a buy to a rental for me.

If someting so trivial will prevent you from buying this game then you shouldn't be playing any Mass Effect, Period.

we'll probably see a 3 under his name this time next year.

[sbvera13]

I've been playing around with tweaks to my coalesced.ini for exactly those reasons, and so far have been pleased. I've removed the defense blocking all powers business (why go to so much effort to balance powers around squad-combos and tactical application, and then mak 90% of all enemies immune to them for most of the fight? /faceplam) and have been balancing the cooldown and duration to compensate. It's working well. Unfortunately options are limited, since the GCD seems hardcoded and you can't match certain powers to certain defenses, etc.

All in all, the ME2 system was poorly thought out and a minor amount of tweaking, even with the severe limitations hardcoded into the engine, still gets some great improvement and makes the game much more fun. I'm currently running against enemies with regenerating shields, about 12 second power cooldown, and CC affecting everyone. I have to rely on my squad like never before and tactically control every encounter, and now have the tools to actually do it. Fighting a YMIR is an exercise in small unit tactics now. Bioware's standard of gameplay for the action encounters is pretty low, since I managed to do all that in under 2 hours of rebalance testing.

Modifié par sbvera13, 30 juin 2011 - 07:33 .