97 réponses à ce sujet

[Draco856]

I'd just go back to Okeer's planet and take the cloning tanks, and clone fully mature Krogan and lead them to Tuchanka, where they will learn to be true krogan from Wrex, thus increasing the population and keeping the genophage intact.

[snfonseka]

Toshir wrote...

 It's obvious this will come up in ME3. So what do you do? Stop the genophage which will give you a very, very strong ally against the Reapers which could turn up as a very, very strong opponent, or do you keep the genophage so that the galaxy won't have another Krogan invasion?

 

So are U saying the remaining Krogan population is a "very strong" ally/ opponent. They don't have enough numbers to do so.

Modifié par snfonseka, 01 juillet 2011 - 09:51 .

[Massadonious1]

snfonseka wrote...

Toshir wrote...

 It's obvious this will come up in ME3. So what do you do? Stop the genophage which will give you a very, very strong ally against the Reapers which could turn up as a very, very strong opponent, or do you keep the genophage so that the galaxy won't have another Krogan invasion?

 

So are U saying the remaining Krogan population is a "very strong" ally/ opponent. They don't have enough numbers to do so.

Population:2.1 billion
Capital: currently Urdnot (since 2183)
CDEM Garrison: 2,400 (in orbital battlestations)

http://masseffect.wi...m/wiki/Tuchanka

Of course, not all of them are going to be able/willing to fight, but even 1-5% of that would be significant.

Modifié par Massadonious1, 01 juillet 2011 - 10:08 .

[Tilarta]

I already made my choice.
I kept the genophage data so Mordin could continue to work on a cure for the disease.

Basically, the Salarians reacted out of fear of what the Krogan might do if their population continued to expand at it's current rate.
And that's why I feel the Krogans got a raw deal.

The Krogan are my favorite Mass Effect race and given the choice, they are going to be my first stop on the "galactic recruiting tour".

I'm going to move heaven and planets to make sure they return to their former state as a genophage free species.

Plus, I made sure Grunt lived, so I'm sure he has his part to play in curing the genophage, what with him being immune to it and all.

[Eldan Varen]

I think it's quite obvious:
The genophage must not be cured!
Urdnot is only successful because of it - Wrex' plan to unite and civilise his people requires it infact. Without it, most clans would fall back to barbarism and their petty feuds.
Okeer's plan was somewhat similar. The lance is more dangerous than the horde. That's why Grunt exists. He's afflicted by the genophage, but he's strong enough to be able to ignore it. He doesn't need "phantom siblings" at his flanks to crush the enemy - he can do it himself.
That's what ME2, in regard to the krogan, was about. The genophage doesn't matter. The krogan are their own worst enemy - something Wrex is apparently quite successful at fixing.
Before Wrex established his position, the different clans warred each other, going so far as killing children and females, just to utterly destroy an enemy clan. That's why they were slowly dying - the genophage merely reduced their cannon-fodder-supply. With Wrex' policies, the krogan have to behave themselves. They are literally forced to overcome their barbaric nature, becoming more civilised in the process. This wouldn't be the case without the genophage - the krogan simply wouldn't care.
The situation however looks very different if Wrex is dead. Wreav is very conservative. You will probably need the cure to (temporarily) unite the krogan - with disastrous consequences after the war. They are still cavemen with nukes after all.

That's the way I see it. If Wrex lives - destroy the data. If he's dead, keep it, but be aware of the consequences... Either way, the krogan will be united during the war against the reapers - the numbers however will be the same. Krogan do not breed and grow up that fast...

[Brand New]

The hate for the Salarians, & especially the Turians still exists. There are to hard of feelings for this to be a great idea.

You are presented with 2 ideas. The genophage is cured and the Krogan are given long period of help and resources from the council with the Krogan cooperation or Do not cure the Genophage and let the Krogan over time die out. They are to dangerous and powerful to become a loose cannon. With their population on their home planet alone at 2.1 billion a millennium later after the genophage there is much danger with their numbers.

Only strict observation and support of the council will work. The Krogan are really a problem though. They have no benefits other then being creatures of war and are good military soldiers, but for their own kind. They posses no scientific or culture of benefit. Most of them are mercs and bloodpack outside of tuchanka because of their sheer strength, not to mention like the Asari, their life span is a millennium.

[Nightdragon8]

From what I understand, Uplift because of Rackni then they where allowed to live no problem, Krogan rebellion they introduce Genophage to prevent Krogan numbers from swelling so they could try to take over the galaxy. They find out Krogan body was adapting to Genophage, adjusted Genophage to original levels.

Its the fact that they where voilent and wanted to take over the Galaxy that they made the Genophage. As Mordin said he would have sided against the uplift.

The problem with the Krogan is like what Brand New stated. They live a long time. Its also the fact they reproduce apartaly faster than rabbits. So multi offspring + long life = a ton of Krogan. It seems its only the Salarans who could in thoery match the Krogan in numbers if they wanted to. But from what it seems they don't want to.

Now what Wrex (or his "brother") is trying to do is unite the Krogan under 1 banner. which in theory would make them one hell of an army. Now how killing Wrex will help/hurt you I dunno. I supect that while you will help out in the planet I suspect it wont get you extra army to run around the galaxy with.

IMO the Krogan will end up turning into the Klingons of Mass Effect.

[Parion]

Goneaviking wrote...
Evolutionary pressure came, and they
evolved. Then the aliens came and sterilised them again. And will come
again, and again, and again until the Krogan find a way to do to the
aliens what was done to them.

Or until they, you know, learn to act like grown ups instead of screaming because they lost and it wasn't "fair".
They didn't evolve squat. Or rather, they evolved to combat the symptom instead of the disease, which is thier inability to cope on a galactic level.

[REgentleman]

Brand New wrote...

Only strict observation and support of the council will work. The Krogan are really a problem though. They have no benefits other then being creatures of war and are good military soldiers, but for their own kind. They posses no scientific or culture of benefit. Most of them are mercs and bloodpack outside of tuchanka because of their sheer strength, not to mention like the Asari, their life span is a millennium.

You have a point, but what if their positive culture has been stunted, moreso than that it doesn't exist? Illium's poet is a great example: he's a tech, possibly a poet/writer (if untrained), and his personality goes completely against the stereotype (he's appeasing and sensitive where the cultural standard is to either be a Mandalorian or die). He can't be the only Krogan in the universe with counter-culture potential.

[Chuvvy]

I'll sell the genophage cure to the Rachni.


Problem Krogan?

Modifié par Slidell505, 02 juillet 2011 - 02:12 .

[SandTrout]

The geneophage is staying until the initial onslaught of the Reapers is stopped. However, I would seek some way of gradually introducing the genophage cure into the Krogan population, rather than shocking their society again by curing every krogan and causing a population explosion. Personally, I think that the genophage was the right call at the time, but Mordin's project destroyed the best possible way for the genophage to end.

If you want to get into details, I would give the Genephage cure to Wrex to use as he saw fit. Wrex has demonstrated sound judgment, and doesn't want to recreate the Krogan Rebellions. This would establish Wrex as practically impossible to remove from power, and he can grant the cure to those krogan who prove themselves as capable of restraining themselves. Krogan would unify, and expand, but probably not quickly enough to threaten every other species in the galaxy at the same time.

Alternatively, to keep politics out of it, I would secretly cure a few hundred krogan scattered around the galaxy and let them continue to breed normally. The result would be a recreation of the circumstances that Mordin counteracted. The cured krogan would reproduce more frequently than other krogan, and the cure would be disseminated gradually so that other species still have a chance to react to the growing krogan population

[Toshir]

Brand New wrote...

The hate for the Salarians, & especially the Turians still exists. There are to hard of feelings for this to be a great idea.

It's the smae thing for humans and Turians.  They still dislike each other but they'll work together. Now the Krogan arne't exactly brilliant but I'm sure Wrex and Grunt can keep them in line.

[BloodyTalon]

It will depend given things before they got infected the brth rate was high, iif krtogan culture is adapting for one birth out of what was about a 1.00 stillm births then it may not be an issue if they are starting to adapt.

But have to side will side with Wrex regardless.

[Tilarta]

Well, the statement about Grunt and the genophage actually means something different.
Okeer says "the greatest insult a Krogan can give to an enemy is to ignore them" when he is talking about Grunt and the genophage.

So, I'm interpreting this to mean that Grunt is "ignoring" the genophage somehow, that any of his offspring will also have a measure of being able to resist the genophage.
Which means Grunt has the genophage, but it's not going to stop him fathering children, like other Krogan have been.
Perhaps the Krogan foreign dna neutralization has been cranked up to it's ultimate level in Grunt, in that everything that is not part of the natural Krogan genome is nullified, leaving pure Krogan DNA.

And then there is the other thing I found ethically dubious.
Actually, that's being polite, I thought it was downright evil.

If the genophage had merely reduced the Krogan's ability to reproduce, say, by inducing a limited sterility, then that may have been somewhat acceptible.
But the Genophage doesn't work that way.
What it does is introduce a genetic defect in a high number of Krogan children which results in them becoming stillborn.
So, the Salarians are guilty of mass infanticide.
Preventing the fertilization of a ova is one thing, causing a child to die before they are born is another thing althogether.

And since I wasn't okay with that, it's why I sided with the Krogan.

Modifié par Tilarta, 02 juillet 2011 - 07:34 .

[MrGone]

Well on my first Shep . . . probably gonna look for some sort of middle solution, as that's what he usually does. I know my femShep is against genocide in any form and will support the Krogan return though.

See what it comes down to.

[ME-ParaShep]

Eldan Varen wrote...

I think it's quite obvious:
The genophage must not be cured!
Urdnot is only successful because of it - Wrex' plan to unite and civilise his people requires it infact. Without it, most clans would fall back to barbarism and their petty feuds.
Okeer's plan was somewhat similar. The lance is more dangerous than the horde. That's why Grunt exists. He's afflicted by the genophage, but he's strong enough to be able to ignore it. He doesn't need "phantom siblings" at his flanks to crush the enemy - he can do it himself.
That's what ME2, in regard to the krogan, was about. The genophage doesn't matter. The krogan are their own worst enemy - something Wrex is apparently quite successful at fixing.
Before Wrex established his position, the different clans warred each other, going so far as killing children and females, just to utterly destroy an enemy clan. That's why they were slowly dying - the genophage merely reduced their cannon-fodder-supply. With Wrex' policies, the krogan have to behave themselves. They are literally forced to overcome their barbaric nature, becoming more civilised in the process. This wouldn't be the case without the genophage - the krogan simply wouldn't care.
The situation however looks very different if Wrex is dead. Wreav is very conservative. You will probably need the cure to (temporarily) unite the krogan - with disastrous consequences after the war. They are still cavemen with nukes after all.

That's the way I see it. If Wrex lives - destroy the data. If he's dead, keep it, but be aware of the consequences... Either way, the krogan will be united during the war against the reapers - the numbers however will be the same. Krogan do not breed and grow up that fast...

You post a good argument there. I definitely agree with your last paragraph. The Krogan has learned through pain, suffering, and deaths of numerous members of their species on Tuchanka how to survive and evolve as a species. With Wrex as their undisposed leader who is ushering in the new Krogan age, they will learn to be more than the infamous "cavemen with nukes" that they are. They'll be more civilized and they will all learn to fight and kill because they have something worthy to fight for. Heck, the genophage was a fantastic thing in the long run even though it was morally wrong. If saving the cure and using it on the Krogan AFTER they recreate their culture happens, then I believe they'll grow to their full potential. As long as they don't go back to being barbarian-like simpletons, everything will be fine.

[Omega Torsk]

I'll cure them. If and when the Reapers are defeated, if the Krogan haven't learned a valuable lesson by now, they'll most likely be re-genophaged if they try any more shenanigans. They don't have the luxury of surprise attack, anymore. Back in ancient times, the Krogan were the enforcers of Citadel Space. Then, the turians entered the galactic stage around the time the Krogan Rebellions occurred and aided the Salarians in distributing the genophage, earning their place as the new enforcers. The rest is history.

If the Krogan are cured, I'm sure they will be placed under strict observation. Wrex has good goals; I'm sure he'll also do his part in shaping the Krogan ideal, possibly leading Tuchanka into some kind of cultural renaissance.

[alihou]

Oops wrong place... Wrex is dead in my game... What happens to my game then? Grunt take over Wrex's position?

[Tilarta]

In that case, Wreav is the leader of the Krogan and since he's a proponent of status quo, the Krogan are acting like they always have, with nothing changing for them as a culture or a people.

The Krogan are only led into becoming a progressive species if Wrex is alive.

Fortunately, for me, I made sure Wrex was alive, so he's still around and leading the Krogan in my playthrough.


As for what the Krogan bring to the battle, I'm fairly certain ground troops will play their part.

Shepherd: Hey, look at that, an army of Husks.
Krogan army: WE ARE KROGAN!!!!!
<ram, stomp, squish, splat, rip, boom boom boom>.
Grunt: What Husk army? All I see is gloop spread everywhere.

After all, the Rachni were a spacefaring species and after the Krogan were done with them, there wasn't a single Rachni ship left.
This would imply that if you take a squad of Krogan to an enemy ship, they'll tear it to pieces and use the leftover scrap to clean the former crew out of their boot treads.

[goofyomnivore]

I think curing the genophage would undermine all of Wrex's reforms. I wouldn't be in favor of curing it. I would encourage for Krogan-Salarian/Turian peace, and strongly suggest that the Salarians/Turians give aid to the Krogan. Because what we see in game suggests to me the Salarians/Turians were like "oops, oh well, you shouldn't of rebelled". They need to be more proactive in repairing Krogan culture, and the Krogan need to allow them to do it.

I'm thinking the Krogan turn out to be the Native Americans of Mass Effect, isolated to "planet reservations" and dependent on another political body(Salarians/Turians) for survival, from the culture shock/conquering suffered at the hands of that political body.

Curing it would only cause more bloodshed IMO, but on the other hand not curing it dooms the Krogan in the scope of "galactic power". I would rather build on the current status quo and Wrex's reforms. Instead of curing it, and possibly risking more war and backlash for the Krogan.

Modifié par strive, 03 juillet 2011 - 07:30 .