271 réponses à ce sujet

[ThePwener]

Mister Mida wrote...

I find it pretty ironic that Cerberus gets indoctrinated. Because my impression of what's happened in ME: Evolution was that Cerberus was actually an anti-Reaper organisation.

You don't say....

[Massadonious1]

ThePwener wrote...
So resurrection is not that big of a deal anymore? Wow....

It simply means they bought/hired the brightest minds in the galaxy, stuck them in a room, and their combined knowledge fostered a breakthrough. All Cerberus did was provide the resources for them to do it.

The project leader certainly didn't "learn" anything from them, either. She was already genetically modified to be brilliant.

[MrFob]

ThePwener wrote...

CheeseEnchilada wrote...

This. The devs seem rather willing to give us this information, which can only mean there's more to it than they've revealed. Why else would they give away a huge plot twist nine months before release? 

oooor someone dropped the ball big time and got fired for it.

Ya well ... I hope not. Because you are right, if this is all there is to it, I would be very disappointed as well.

Especially since Brennon Holmes said we'll be fighting these guys for about 40 % of the entire game. My question to that is: Where the hell did Cerberus get 300.000 zealots in combat suits all of a sudden. Last I heard, they were a small group of people that knew + a lot of people who worked in companies like Cord-Hislop and didn't even know they were working for Cerberus. Strange, strange.

[ThePwener]

MrFob wrote...

Ya well ... I hope not. Because you are right, if this is all there is to it, I would be very disappointed as well.

Especially since Brennon Holmes said we'll be fighting these guys for about 40 % of the entire game. My question to that is: Where the hell did Cerberus get 300.000 zealots in combat suits all of a sudden. Last I heard, they were a small group of people that knew + a lot of people who worked in companies like Cord-Hislop and didn't even know they were working for Cerberus. Strange, strange.

It's called plot-magic....

[GodWood]

littlezack wrote...
Not nescessarily. Saren was indoctrinated, and he was about morally grey as you can get.

Hardly, Saren was just a moron.

Saren: The Reapers cannot be stopped. We must submit.
Me: But aren't the Reapers only coming because you are bringing them back. Couldn't you simply just .... you know, not bring them back?
Saren: ....... err, well I'M INDOKTRENAYTID GRRR !!!11Q!

Indoctrination doesn't make Cerberus evil - it's not something they can control or help. It just makes them tools of the Reapers, their puppets.

Exactly boring little bots with no depth.

[littlezack]

GodWood wrote...

littlezack wrote...
Not nescessarily. Saren was indoctrinated, and he was about morally grey as you can get.

Hardly, Saren was just a moron.

Saren: The Reapers cannot be stopped. We must submit.
Me: But aren't the Reapers only coming because you are bringing them back. Couldn't you simply just .... you know, not bring them back?
Saren: ....... err, well I'M INDOKTRENAYTID GRRR !!!11Q!

Indoctrination doesn't make Cerberus evil - it's not something they can control or help. It just makes them tools of the Reapers, their puppets.

Exactly boring little bots with no depth.

How'd you get Mass Effect 3 so early?

[DaveExclamationMarkYognaut]

ThePwener wrote...

And Im tired of people's mentally that's Cerberus is an incompetent pack of morons. They brought back a human from death! Dammit, how is that worth nothing!? Saved the human race! Rebuild the Normandy! And this isn't the point either.

Oh, those are just examples of them failing at failing. They're just that incompetent

[Adanu]

Cerberus haters just latch onto anything to give a 'I told you so' to anyone with an ounce of sense.

Cerberus saved the galaxy from Harbinger and Sovereign. Without them, the Normandy prototype would never have been built and you wouldn't have had a way to get to the conduit without being torn apart by Geth warships. You would wouldn't have found that derelict reaper to get an IFF from, and you *certainly* wouldn't have had a ship to get to it in the first place.

Cerberus does what they need to do, just like the STG. White knights can be self righteous all they want, but at the end of the day Cerberus gave the galaxy a chance to stop the cycle.

[GodWood]

littlezack wrote...

GodWood wrote...

littlezack wrote...Indoctrination doesn't make Cerberus evil - it's not something they can control or help. It just makes them tools of the Reapers, their puppets.

Exactly boring little bots with no depth.

How'd you get Mass Effect 3 so early?

You admitted it yourself.
Having them indoctrinated makes them nothing more then mindless tools for the Reapers.

Modifié par GodWood, 30 juin 2011 - 07:48 .

[littlezack]

Adanu wrote...

Cerberus haters just latch onto anything to give a 'I told you so' to anyone with an ounce of sense.

Cerberus saved the galaxy from Harbinger and Sovereign. Without them, the Normandy prototype would never have been built and you wouldn't have had a way to get to the conduit without being torn apart by Geth warships. You would wouldn't have found that derelict reaper to get an IFF from, and you *certainly* wouldn't have had a ship to get to it in the first place.

Cerberus does what they need to do, just like the STG. White knights can be self righteous all they want, but at the end of the day Cerberus gave the galaxy a chance to stop the cycle.

I don't hate Cerberus and I don't think they're incompetent. Competence doesn't factor into it. Indoctrination affects you regardless of your intelligence. If you spend too much time around Reaper tech - which Cerberus is likely to do - you will get indoctrinated. It's not a matter of being smart or stupid.

[littlezack]

[quote]GodWood wrote...

[quote]littlezack wrote...


[quote]Indoctrination doesn't make Cerberus evil - it's not something they can control or help. It just makes them tools of the Reapers, their puppets.[/quote]Exactly boring little bots with no depth.[/quote]How'd you get Mass Effect 3 so early?[/quote]You admitted it yourself.
Having them indoctrinated makes them nothing more then mindless tools for the Reapers.[/quote]

I don't recall saying anything about 'mindless tools'.

As with Saren, the Reapers have to have some balance - taking too much free will makes their thralls useless. In order to properly infect Cerberus, the Reapers have to do what they did with Saren on a larger scale; effect them to the point where they legitimately believe they're doing the right thing.

Saren was an ass, but he wasn't mindless - at the end of the day, he believed he was saving the galaxy, and there were moments of lucidity. In the end, he got to die on his own terms. He was far from having 'no depth'.

[Seboist]

"Indoctrination" is turning into Mass Effect's equivalent of Metal Gear Solid's "nanomachines".

[ThePwener]

It has to be something else, they wouldn't have made the same mistake so quickly. Just seems cheap to use indoctrination to make them evil and even more, give us Cerberus promoters the finger. Thanks BW, thanks a lot.

[ADelusiveMan]

Not much of a plot twist since the majority of us at least somewhat suspected towards the end of Mass Effect 2...

[Repearized Miranda]

ThePwener wrote...

And Im tired of people's mentally that's Cerberus is an incompetent pack of morons. They brought back a human from death! Dammit, how is that worth nothing!? Saved the human race! Rebuild the Normandy! And this isn't the point either.

I believe this is because of how they were portrayed. Much like how the CAlliance is maligned for their asswipe attitude. If you didn't spot it in ME2, they did a really great job hiding it - and even if you sided with them (my Shep did), I feel that that wll bite me in the ass as well because they are just too damn pompous (sans Anderson)

Look at how maligned Cerberus was and we met none of them until ME2 (TIM, Jacob, Miranda) and they (she) was still everybody's (Jack noticibly) punching bag.

With TIM, it's different because obviously he doesn't lack intelligence; yet, somehow he leaves you (and Miranda) with a bad taste in your mouth. (ie: he sets up three traps for Shepard) Why? Because essentially he thinks he has all the answers. (He even gets Miranda apprehensive. ie: The Collector Ship trap)

Let's get to the end of the game and the base argument.

He's adamant about keeping it - in fact, orders Miranda to tell you because "you'll listen to her." Anyway, during that conversation, Shepard responds, "How do I know you won't build your own Reaper?" as it's not so much that TIM is wrong, Shepard is hoping that she IS wrong for making that assumption. However, given how he has jerked her around for the most part, she wouldn't put it past him. He pactically sold his soul tryng to sell that argument hoping she'd buy it!

Again, TIM has is own agenda and has always had it! Miranda didn't want to believe it either (just like Niket), but there it is. TIM played your lovely behind!! He and The CAlliance have their own agendas!

All of Cerberus is not bad, but the saying, "One bad (insert fruit), spoils the whole bunch!" could really apply here.

[Rockworm503]

What did you expect? Cerebrus know the reapers are coming the only plausible reason I can see of them trying to kill the person they brought back from death is indoctrination? What you think their so petty they'd ignore the reaper threat and be so petty to try and kill him/her during the war? What other reason can you possibly think of?

[ThePwener]

ADelusiveMan wrote...

Not much of a plot twist since the majority of us at least somewhat suspected towards the end of Mass Effect 2...

People interpret that grin in so many crazy ways. With a giant super weapon in my hands I would have made the same face and then an evil laugh on my way to conquering the galaxy.

[Seboist]

ThePwener wrote...

It has to be something else, they wouldn't have made the same mistake so quickly. Just seems cheap to use indoctrination to make them evil and even more, give us Cerberus promoters the finger. Thanks BW, thanks a lot.

Don't worry, us Cerberus fans aren't going to be the only ones with tickets on the Normandy locomotive. People who didn't want to see the genophage cured will be doing it regardless in ME3 and likely those who killed the Rachni Queen will still end up fighting Rachni husks.

[littlezack]

Your signature has a typo. 'Does'. Not 'those'.

[ThePwener]

Repearized Miranda wrote...

Again, TIM has is own agenda and has always had it! Miranda didn't want to believe it either (just like Niket), but there it is. TIM played your lovely behind!! He and The CAlliance have their own agendas!

All of Cerberus is not bad, but the saying, "One bad (insert fruit), spoils the whole bunch!" could really apply here.

I have my own agenda. Wathever happens I'll kill Shepard and take over Cerberus.

[GodWood]

littlezack wrote...
I don't recall saying anything about 'mindless tools'.

Having them so they can't control or help their actions (like you said) is just making them mindless tools for the Reapers.

As with Saren, the Reapers have to have some balance - taking too much free will makes their thralls useless. In order to properly infect Cerberus, the Reapers have to do what they did with Saren on a larger scale; effect them to the point where they legitimately believe they're doing the right thing.

No matter how you try to spin it having the drones believe that wiping out all life in the galaxy is the 'right thing' does not make them morally grey.
It makes them boring bots.

Saren was an ass, but he wasn't mindless - at the end of the day, he believed he was saving the galaxy, and there were moments of lucidity. In the end, he got to die on his own terms. He was far from having 'no depth'.

I don't recall saying he had no depth
Just that he was an absolute moron.

[Phaedon]

http://www.babyassfa...e8a18970c-320wi

Well, that's just getting silly now.

Shepard mentions that they are indoctrinated halfway through, and it's totally that, right, there have to be no other complications.

And ther will be absolutely no connections to ME: Evolution, none at all, trust me! It has to be! Shepard mentioned so in the middle of the game! And Shepard knows everything!

As for you wishful thinkers?

We don't know about positive Cerberus operations? Ye, wish honey.
There are some pretty neat stuff filed away at the Shadow Broker's database.

To consider an organization that has up to 200 casualties per game with or without player interaction is...um, you guys have pretty low standards don't you?

And the Lazarus Project was definitely a team effort. Nobody got pissed off for doing all the work and getting no credit, sure.

Other than that, TIM is easily the darkest character in the MEverse and he is the best sub-antagonist we could expect. Saren can go cry in the corner for only having mild racist undertones.

[littlezack]

Saren wasn't a moron, Indoctrination effected his thought process. That's what it does. And the exact minute he got himself thinking correctly, he blew his brains out to keep it from happening again.

[Rockworm503]

I'm gonna have nightmares of that Jim Carey picture!

[GodWood]

littlezack wrote...
Saren wasn't a moron, Indoctrination effected his thought process. That's what it does.

Exactly.
Indoctrination affected his thought processes in such a way that made him stupid, thus a moron.

He was fine in Revelation before the indoctrination.