271 réponses à ce sujet

[Repearized Miranda]

ThePwener wrote...

Repearized Miranda wrote...

Again, TIM has is own agenda and has always had it! Miranda didn't want to believe it either (just like Niket), but there it is. TIM played your lovely behind!! He and The CAlliance have their own agendas!

All of Cerberus is not bad, but the saying, "One bad (insert fruit), spoils the whole bunch!" could really apply here.

I have my own agenda. Wathever happens I'll kill Shepard and take over Cerberus.

Are you TIM?!! Holy sht! 

[Lumikki]

If you think what TIM did in ME2 and is doing ME3. It's one of only options what makes any real sense. How someone who fight all his life just to make humans stronger and survive, can now in ME3 fight agaist humans and try to kill all. Not really many other reasons would make sense at all as how someone (hole organisation) can suddenly change so much. TIM would never voluntarily try to kill humans only hope, when that was exactly opposite what he tryed to do in ME2.

Modifié par Lumikki, 30 juin 2011 - 08:24 .

[Undertone]

Phaedon wrote...

As for you wishful thinkers?

We don't know about positive Cerberus operations? Ye, wish honey.
There are some pretty neat stuff filed away at the Shadow Broker's database.

To consider an organization that has up to 200 casualties per game with or without player interaction is...um, you guys have pretty low standards don't you?

And the Lazarus Project was definitely a team effort. Nobody got pissed off for doing all the work and getting no credit, sure.

Other than that, TIM is easily the darkest character in the MEverse and he is the best sub-antagonist we could expect. Saren can go cry in the corner for only having mild racist undertones.

I love it how you avoid clear evidence of Cerberus success and just shove it under there somewhere. Fact of the matter is all you Cerberus haters are clearly biased uncapable of admitting that Cerberus does things (not everything) successful. And the fact of the matter is you are biased based on emotions and moral reasoning whereas logic and results is what counts. Some Cerberus operations do fail indeed yet they always produce results in one aspect or another. The game gives you enough facts where Cerberus has promoted something or succeed in one area or another. You just choose to ignore blinded by your morality.

Fact of the matter is Cerberus is Black Ops just like the STG and just like any other black ops that the other species have. Maybe you should check what duties black ops have. There's nothing wrong with promoting our species instead of others. Believing in ever lasting peace and not having the necessary counter-measures to stay strong and competetive is pure blind idealism.

Also research, development and discoveries often happen through immoral means, war and so on. If you believe otherwise you should just look at the real world. The means might be wrong, but the end justifies it - in the end more people are saved. Being competetive and having the ability to be competitive are positive things.

I also think I told you in some other thread that racism is part of the psyche - conscious and sub-conscious. It's not something inherently bad, it's something that happens whether we like it or not. I do it, you do it, everyone does it. You might not verbally or physically act upon it yet you still judge things from the moment you see it. And that's just the way it is - like it or not.

Modifié par Undertone, 30 juin 2011 - 08:37 .

[littlezack]

GodWood wrote...

littlezack wrote...
Saren wasn't a moron, Indoctrination effected his thought process. That's what it does.

Exactly.
Indoctrination affected his thought processes in such a way that made him stupid, thus a moron.

He was fine in Revelation before the indoctrination.

Indoctrination doesn't make you stupid. It's mind control. Saren was still smart, he just wasn't in full control of his thoughts. That's the entire point of Indoctrination.

[Undertone]

Arcian wrote...

Seboist wrote...


Don't worry, us Cerberus fans aren't going to be the only ones with tickets on the Normandy locomotive. People who didn't want to see the genophage cured will be doing it regardless in ME3 and likely those who killed the Rachni Queen will still end up fighting Rachni husks.

Considering how much you know about the game, you must be a BioWare employee in disguise.

Or you're just a posterioraching Illusive Jugend who bet on a losing horse, and now spends your time being massively sore about it by making wild assertions, assertions everywhere and complaining because you didn't get to jump up and down on TIM's flagpole.

Seriously, could you possibly be any madder?

At least it's more interesting to play the game this way then having a magic blue button that fixes it all. Aren't you boring?

[littlezack]

And again, Cerberus being successful or not doesn't have crap to do with them being indoctrinated. They could very well be the smartest people in the galaxy, but that doesn't protect them from Indoctrination.

[Big_Stupid_Jelly]

littlezack wrote...

And again, Cerberus being successful or not doesn't have crap to do with them being indoctrinated. They could very well be the smartest people in the galaxy, but that doesn't protect them from Indoctrination.

The 'beauty' about Reaper indoctrination, is that you don't actually know you've been indoctrinated - basically you're under the impression that you have decided something whereas its the Reapers who've decided you're going to do something.

Though didn't Saren say that the extent of the control tends to be limited as it can impede higher brain functions, so the Reapers probably keep their servants on a loose leash.

[Undertone]

littlezack wrote...

I really don't get why this bothers people so much. Cerberus has a long history of screwing with crap that comes back to bite them in the ass. On top of that, because of the way the organization works, all it would really take was the Illusive Man getting indoctrinated - from there, the Reapers could poison the whole system.

I don't call it lazy. I call it an inevitable conclusion.

We never said indoctrination has anything to do with how smart Cerberus is or it's not. My arguments were in regards to your above mentioned statement and to that of Phaedon pointing out that no matter how much you hate Cerberus it does have success and such. Out of all the people Cerberus are the least likely to get indoctrinated considering they know the most out of all species and groups about indoctrination.

[Lumikki]

Adanu wrote...

Cerberus saved the galaxy from Harbinger and Sovereign.

What Cerberus has to do with Sovereign?
Sure, Cerberus was the one behind spoiling Harbingers plan, but Cerberus had nothing to do with Sovereign.

[Seboist]

Lumikki wrote...

Adanu wrote...

Cerberus saved the galaxy from Harbinger and Sovereign.

What Cerberus has to do with Sovereign?
Sure, Cerberus was the one behind spoiling Harbingers plan, but Cerberus had nothing to do with Sovereign.

They were behind the idea of the SR-1 being developed.

[CroGamer002]

Do they need to be indoctrinated?

They were always evil and idiots.

[Undertone]

Lumikki wrote...

Adanu wrote...

Cerberus saved the galaxy from Harbinger and Sovereign.

What Cerberus has to do with Sovereign?
Sure, Cerberus was the one behind spoiling Harbingers plan, but Cerberus had nothing to do with Sovereign.

Cerberus persuaded the Alliance to work with the Turians in order to create the first Normandy. Without Cerberus there wouldn't be both Normandy 1 and 2 and without it Shepard would be blown to pieces on multiple occasions since he/she wouldn't have a stealth ship.

[littlezack]

Undertone wrote...

littlezack wrote...

I really don't get why this bothers people so much. Cerberus has a long history of screwing with crap that comes back to bite them in the ass. On top of that, because of the way the organization works, all it would really take was the Illusive Man getting indoctrinated - from there, the Reapers could poison the whole system.

I don't call it lazy. I call it an inevitable conclusion.

We never said indoctrination has anything to do with how smart Cerberus is or it's not. My arguments were in regards to your above mentioned statement and to that of Phaedon pointing out that no matter how much you hate Cerberus it does have success and such. Out of all the people Cerberus are the least likely to get indoctrinated considering they know the most out of all species and groups about indoctrination.

See, that's the thing - knowing about indoctrination doesn't help. You. Can't. Prevent it. If Cerberus screws around with Reaper technology too much, they'll get indoctrinated, and they won't even know it's happening. And, really, all it would take was for the Illusive Man to get controled...Cerberus is so centered around him that he could easily get the entire organization Indoctrinated.

[Undertone]

Mesina2 wrote...

Do they need to be indoctrinated?

They were always evil and idiots.

Uh-uh and yet somehow they continue to persist and have a large influence within the galaxy. And somehow have a sufficient army now at ME3.

You can call the army plot magic if you want. I call Cerberus failings plot magic then, since Shepard has to do something right like visit Overlord, Pragia etc.

Modifié par Undertone, 30 juin 2011 - 08:51 .

[hwf]

They don't have to be indoctrinated.
Indoctrination introduces a certain doctrine, belief system, ideas, strategies by "force" or coercion.

There is another way you can reach that doctrine; by coming to those conclusions due to your own research and analysis - ie. Cerberus agrees with with that Reapers are doing and have been doing for so long.
Superficially this looks very much like indoctrination, but isn't.

[Big_Stupid_Jelly]

Undertone wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Adanu wrote...

Cerberus saved the galaxy from Harbinger and Sovereign.

What Cerberus has to do with Sovereign?
Sure, Cerberus was the one behind spoiling Harbingers plan, but Cerberus had nothing to do with Sovereign.

Cerberus persuaded the Alliance to work with the Turians in order to create the first Normandy. Without Cerberus there wouldn't be both Normandy 1 and 2 and without it Shepard would be blown to pieces on multiple occasions since he/she wouldn't have a stealth ship.

Technically Cerberus part of the Alliance at the time of the Normandy 1's commission, so basically the Alliance told itself.

Also in ME2 the Normandy 2 didn't prove to be that Stealthy as some mercs on Omega 'saw' them coming miles away, apparently.

[CroGamer002]

Phaedon wrote...

http://www.babyassfa...e8a18970c-320wi

Well, that's just getting silly now.

Shepard mentions that they are indoctrinated halfway through, and it's totally that, right, there have to be no other complications.

And ther will be absolutely no connections to ME: Evolution, none at all, trust me! It has to be! Shepard mentioned so in the middle of the game! And Shepard knows everything!

As for you wishful thinkers?

We don't know about positive Cerberus operations? Ye, wish honey.
There are some pretty neat stuff filed away at the Shadow Broker's database.

To consider an organization that has up to 200 casualties per game with or without player interaction is...um, you guys have pretty low standards don't you?

And the Lazarus Project was definitely a team effort. Nobody got pissed off for doing all the work and getting no credit, sure.

Other than that, TIM is easily the darkest character in the MEverse and he is the best sub-antagonist we could expect. Saren can go cry in the corner for only having mild racist undertones.

+10

[Undertone]

littlezack wrote...

Undertone wrote...

littlezack wrote...

I really don't get why this bothers people so much. Cerberus has a long history of screwing with crap that comes back to bite them in the ass. On top of that, because of the way the organization works, all it would really take was the Illusive Man getting indoctrinated - from there, the Reapers could poison the whole system.

I don't call it lazy. I call it an inevitable conclusion.

We never said indoctrination has anything to do with how smart Cerberus is or it's not. My arguments were in regards to your above mentioned statement and to that of Phaedon pointing out that no matter how much you hate Cerberus it does have success and such. Out of all the people Cerberus are the least likely to get indoctrinated considering they know the most out of all species and groups about indoctrination.

See, that's the thing - knowing about indoctrination doesn't help. You. Can't. Prevent it. If Cerberus screws around with Reaper technology too much, they'll get indoctrinated, and they won't even know it's happening. And, really, all it would take was for the Illusive Man to get controled...Cerberus is so centered around him that he could easily get the entire organization Indoctrinated.

Your statement doesn't make logical sense whatsoever. It's exactly because you understand and know the principle and how something work that you can create a counter measure against it. Otherwise what's to stop the Reapers from mass indoctrinating everyone in the galaxy and call it a day. What's the point of attacking and destroying? Just indoctrinate everyone and make them go and do whatever you want or suicide.

[Lumikki]

Seboist wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Adanu wrote...

Cerberus saved the galaxy from Harbinger and Sovereign.

What Cerberus has to do with Sovereign?
Sure, Cerberus was the one behind spoiling Harbingers plan, but Cerberus had nothing to do with Sovereign.

They were behind the idea of the SR-1 being developed.

Are you sure about this?
Where is this information comming?

If I remember correctly System Alliance did build SSN Normandy SR-1 with Turians, partly funded by Council.
Cerberus was behind Normandy SR-2.

Modifié par Lumikki, 30 juin 2011 - 08:56 .

[littlezack]

Undertone wrote...

littlezack wrote...

Undertone wrote...

littlezack wrote...

I really don't get why this bothers people so much. Cerberus has a long history of screwing with crap that comes back to bite them in the ass. On top of that, because of the way the organization works, all it would really take was the Illusive Man getting indoctrinated - from there, the Reapers could poison the whole system.

I don't call it lazy. I call it an inevitable conclusion.

We never said indoctrination has anything to do with how smart Cerberus is or it's not. My arguments were in regards to your above mentioned statement and to that of Phaedon pointing out that no matter how much you hate Cerberus it does have success and such. Out of all the people Cerberus are the least likely to get indoctrinated considering they know the most out of all species and groups about indoctrination.

See, that's the thing - knowing about indoctrination doesn't help. You. Can't. Prevent it. If Cerberus screws around with Reaper technology too much, they'll get indoctrinated, and they won't even know it's happening. And, really, all it would take was for the Illusive Man to get controled...Cerberus is so centered around him that he could easily get the entire organization Indoctrinated.

Your statement doesn't make logical sense whatsoever. It's exactly because you understand and know the principle and how something work that you can create a counter measure against it. Otherwise what's to stop the Reapers from mass indoctrinating everyone in the galaxy and call it a day. What's the point of attacking and destroying? Just indoctrinate everyone and make them go and do whatever you want or suicide.

Because indoctrination isn't an instanteous process, and, as near as I can tell, the effected parties have to be around the Reaper tech for a fair amount of time. And most people aren't stupid enough to stand near a Reaper for extended periods of time, if they can help it.

[Seboist]

Lumikki wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Adanu wrote...

Cerberus saved the galaxy from Harbinger and Sovereign.

What Cerberus has to do with Sovereign?
Sure, Cerberus was the one behind spoiling Harbingers plan, but Cerberus had nothing to do with Sovereign.

They were behind the idea of the SR-1 being developed.

Are you sure about this?
Where is this information comming?

If I remember correctly System Alliance did build SSN Normandy SR-1, partly funded by Council.
Cerberus was behind Normandy SR-2.

Go talk to EDI post Collector abduction of the crew about where they got the Normandy schematics from. She says Cerberus recommended the Alliance co-develop a ship with the Turians so they could get the latter's technology.

Modifié par Seboist, 30 juin 2011 - 08:59 .

[Undertone]

hwf wrote...

They don't have to be indoctrinated.
Indoctrination introduces a certain doctrine, belief system, ideas, strategies by "force" or coercion.

There
is another way you can reach that doctrine; by coming to those
conclusions due to your own research and analysis - ie. Cerberus agrees
with with that Reapers are doing and have been doing for so long.
Superficially this looks very much like indoctrination, but isn't.

So you are saying ME2 is pointless then. Because clearly Cerberus is fighting against the Reapers there. Where do you get that they agree with the Reapers and *have been doing for so long* ??

Arcian wrote...

Undertone wrote...

At least it's more interesting to play the game this way then having a magic blue button that fixes it all. Aren't you boring?

So being a colossal failure AND a massive, hated douchebag in every possible way is fun to you?

Hihohahahuhihoho.jpg

Colossal failure how? Clearly Cerberus have successes and failures like every other organizations. Being a person for whom results justifies the means doesn't make you a douchebag. All people in power have to cut loose ends and do immoral things for the greater good and for a bigger number of people. It's called power and using it.

I do thank you though for not inserting a picture and making me waste my time scrolling more.

[Lumikki]

Seboist wrote...


Go talk to EDI post Collector abduction of the crew about the SR-2. She says Cerberus recommended the Alliance co-develop a ship with the Turians so they could get the latter's technology.

Yeah, but it was not Ceberus who builded SR-1. You can't take full credit for few words.
Later Cerberus "stole" the Normandy design from Alliance.
Normandy SR-1 was fully Alliance ship.
Normandy SR-2 was fully Cerberus ship.

Don't take credits where it doens't belong.

Modifié par Lumikki, 30 juin 2011 - 09:04 .