271 réponses à ce sujet

[Undertone]

kaiki01 wrote...

Adanu wrote...

Big_Stupid_Jelly wrote...

Undertone wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Adanu wrote...

Cerberus saved the galaxy from Harbinger and Sovereign.

What Cerberus has to do with Sovereign?
Sure, Cerberus was the one behind spoiling Harbingers plan, but Cerberus had nothing to do with Sovereign.

Cerberus persuaded the Alliance to work with the Turians in order to create the first Normandy. Without Cerberus there wouldn't be both Normandy 1 and 2 and without it Shepard would be blown to pieces on multiple occasions since he/she wouldn't have a stealth ship.

Technically Cerberus part of the Alliance at the time of the Normandy 1's commission, so basically the Alliance told itself.

Also in ME2 the Normandy 2 didn't prove to be that Stealthy as some mercs on Omega 'saw' them coming miles away, apparently.

Try to use semantics and technicalities all you want. They still saved the galaxy.

Nope. The Alliance did. They built the first Normandy. Without the Alliance there wouldn't be both Normandy 1 and 2(since 2 was a modified replica of 1) and without it
Shepard would be blown to pieces on multiple occasions since he/she
wouldn't have a stealth ship.

Sure -

[kaiki01]

Undertone wrote...

kaiki01 wrote...

Adanu wrote...

Big_Stupid_Jelly wrote...

Undertone wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Adanu wrote...

Cerberus saved the galaxy from Harbinger and Sovereign.

What Cerberus has to do with Sovereign?
Sure, Cerberus was the one behind spoiling Harbingers plan, but Cerberus had nothing to do with Sovereign.

Cerberus persuaded the Alliance to work with the Turians in order to create the first Normandy. Without Cerberus there wouldn't be both Normandy 1 and 2 and without it Shepard would be blown to pieces on multiple occasions since he/she wouldn't have a stealth ship.

Technically Cerberus part of the Alliance at the time of the Normandy 1's commission, so basically the Alliance told itself.

Also in ME2 the Normandy 2 didn't prove to be that Stealthy as some mercs on Omega 'saw' them coming miles away, apparently.

Try to use semantics and technicalities all you want. They still saved the galaxy.

Nope. The Alliance did. They built the first Normandy. Without the Alliance there wouldn't be both Normandy 1 and 2(since 2 was a modified replica of 1) and without it
Shepard would be blown to pieces on multiple occasions since he/she
wouldn't have a stealth ship.

Sure -

Encouraged =/= build, design, implement.

[Spectre_907]

They aren't indoctrinated. The indoctrination part in the demo was a simplification of the premise that Ceberus and the Reapers are against you. We don't know why they decided to turn on you.

[Lumikki]

Adanu wrote...

Try to use semantics and technicalities all you want. They still saved the galaxy.

Yes, Alliance saved the Galaxy or if we are even more accurated Shepard saved Galaxy. Alliance builded Normandy SR-1 and gave it to Shepard. Cerberus was part of Alliance, but it was not the one who build Normandy SR-1.

"The SSV Normandy SR-1 (Systems Alliance Space Vehicle Stealth Reconnaissance 1) is a prototype "deep scout" frigate, first of the eponymous Normandy class, co-developed by the Alliance and the Turian Hierarchy with the sponsorship of the Citadel Council."

Encouraged

So, when cheerleaders encouraged in sport, it's really cheerleaders who wins the game, not the players who actually did it?

Modifié par Lumikki, 30 juin 2011 - 11:32 .

[Kusy]

 I'm not saying that I put my faith into BioWare writers right now (not after Mass Effect: Evolution trololol) but there are few decent ways of explaining it storywise >>I<< can think of... and since I can those writers I don't put my faith into should be able to as well.

[The Elder King]

Spectre_907 wrote...

They aren't indoctrinated. The indoctrination part in the demo was a simplification of the premise that Ceberus and the Reapers are against you. We don't know why they decided to turn on you.

I hope that there'll be a valid reason, but I really can't see HOW Cerberus, and especially TIM, could decide to join the Reapers without indoctrination.

[Bad King]

ThePwener wrote...

And Im tired of people's mentally that's Cerberus is an incompetent pack of morons. They brought back a human from death! Dammit, how is that worth nothing!? Saved the human race! Rebuild the Normandy! And this isn't the point either.

Cerberus are awesome; they made a load of awesome tech like the collector gear, teh Dr. Pepper technology and pretty much every DLC weapon and armour that Shepard gets. Seriously, how can they be incompetent if they make such advanced stuff like this?!

[ERJAK1]

ThePwener wrote...

[SPOILERS]

Bioware said we'd have to buy ME3 to find the reason that Cerberus wants Shepard dead. I thought there was going to be a great reason only BW could deliver. A month later I see a ME3 demo and one of the developers of BW says that they're indoctrinated. Then Shepard himself says they're indoctrinated. At first I thought BW wanted to mislead us, but minutes later I saw Cerberus forces in what they said was a Heretic Geth base, and then a Reaper spider thing comes out, ect.

So Cerberus got indoctrinated? That's the amazing reason? Not very original. ANd we can't blame it on the Collector Base because it apperantly happens either way.

So is BW misleading us and Shepard only thinks they're indoctrinated? Maybe... or maybe BW got lazy, which I don't want to believe.

MEH.

Who cares? Cerberus sucked, the illusive man was a ******, now we get to kill them. I won't be looking to closely at the who how whys.

[ISpeakTheTruth]

I don't see how people are suprised that Cerberus is indoctrinated... I mean they fail at 90% of everything they do and they mess with dangerous Reaper Technology.... yeah there's not chance that would ever go wrong right?

[Undertone]

ERJAK1 wrote...

ThePwener wrote...

[SPOILERS]

Bioware said we'd have to buy ME3 to find the reason that Cerberus wants Shepard dead. I thought there was going to be a great reason only BW could deliver. A month later I see a ME3 demo and one of the developers of BW says that they're indoctrinated. Then Shepard himself says they're indoctrinated. At first I thought BW wanted to mislead us, but minutes later I saw Cerberus forces in what they said was a Heretic Geth base, and then a Reaper spider thing comes out, ect.

So Cerberus got indoctrinated? That's the amazing reason? Not very original. ANd we can't blame it on the Collector Base because it apperantly happens either way.

So is BW misleading us and Shepard only thinks they're indoctrinated? Maybe... or maybe BW got lazy, which I don't want to believe.

MEH.

Who cares? Cerberus sucked, the illusive man was a ******, now we get to kill them. I won't be looking to closely at the who how whys.

You win the ingenuity award for today.

[Spectre_907]

hhh89 wrote...

Spectre_907 wrote...

They aren't indoctrinated. The indoctrination part in the demo was a simplification of the premise that Ceberus and the Reapers are against you. We don't know why they decided to turn on you.

I hope that there'll be a valid reason, but I really can't see HOW Cerberus, and especially TIM, could decide to join the Reapers without indoctrination.

But that isn't confirmed, as this thread mentions and the fact that Casey Hudson says that 'Cerberus is working with the Reapers' is not a spoiler seems to imply that they aren't. I think Cerberus has their own reasons that possibly involves a plot twist. The other reasons just don't make any sense within the context of the story.

Modifié par Spectre_907, 01 juillet 2011 - 12:05 .

[sympathy4saren]

How's is it bad? Indoctrination is a major device and weapon of the Reapers.

What will be interesting will be if TIM is Indoctrinated, and if so, why destroy the Collectors?

It would explain his being angry with Shepard if you destroyed the base (non compliance with the Reapers and destruction of valuable Reaper property). It also could just be a test the Reapers were submitting Shepard to in order to test his ability, study him more and humanity's potential.

We are the top crop this cycle. I'm sure the Reapers have grand visions for us when they conquer our species and all organic life, once again.

Against the Reapers, there can be no victory. Before them, we.... are nothing. Our time will come. Our species will fall. And we will be the new right hand of the Reapers engineered and suited to meet their purposes, to serve and obey them in mindless slavery

[Sarcastic Tasha]

It was a crafty (if somewhat cheap) way of making sure everyone was in the same place with regards to Cerberus. Some Shepards like Cerberus and might want to continue working with them instead of going back to the Alliance. If Shepard kept the base then he/she would still be on good terms with TIM so there needed to be a reason Shepard couldn't stay with Cerberus. I'm hoping part way through ME3 Shepard will discover a way to cure indoctrination and Cerberus will become allies again.

[Undertone]

Sarcastic Tasha wrote...

It was a crafty (if somewhat cheap) way of making sure everyone was in the same place with regards to Cerberus. Some Shepards like Cerberus and might want to continue working with them instead of going back to the Alliance. If Shepard kept the base then he/she would still be on good terms with TIM so there needed to be a reason Shepard couldn't stay with Cerberus. I'm hoping part way through ME3 Shepard will discover a way to cure indoctrination and Cerberus will become allies again.

Here is some sensible and smart opinion. I agree with you completely.

[Bluko]

Well what did you think?

We learned early on Cerberus was going to be after Shepard in ME3. Which is occuring during the Reaper invasion. So if Cerberus is trying to stop Shepard it can only mean one thing: they are working with the Reapers.

I dunno what else could really be the case unless the Illusive Man was really mad that Shepard stole his cigarettes and decided he doesn't care about anything else anymore. So that he's simply attacking Shepard out of some petty rage and also partly due to his nicotine withdrawl. Of course it's far more plausible the Illusive Man was mad that Shepard stole his cigarettes and decided to join the Reapers under the condition he'd get all the cigarettes and booze in the Galaxy when they're done.

Anyone can get indoctrinated quite easily. Trying not to get indoctrinated is like trying not to get wet by going outside in the middle of thunderstorm. That said Cerberus had a noted history for being reckless so it's not at all surprising they could have exposed themselves to such effects.

Also we can't be certain yet that Cerberus doesn't have ulterior motives. T.I.M. may simply just be indoctrinated or he may be working with the Reapers to get some sort of upper hand. We just won't know until ME3. Hopefully it is a little more involved then Cerberus having another "accident". But even if that is the case I wouldn't cry foul. It was quite apparent (to me anyways though I seem to be a minority here) that in ME2 Cerberus was being set-up as bad guys for ME3. Cerberus was still just as rotten in ME2 as they were in ME1. Maybe you believe the Illusive Man. Though why you would place any sort of trust in a man who doesn't even tell you his actual name is baffling really.

Someone who can't be held accountable for their actions is hardly someone I'd consider good. Even the Spectres at least still have to answer to the Council at the end of the day. Cerberus just does whatever the hell it wants to further it's own entirely selfish goals.

[Seboist]

"Anybody can get indoctrinated!!!"

I'm sure people would take it real well if it was Anderson leading an Alliance army against Shepard, right..... right?

[Balek-Vriege]

The Illusive Man came into contact with a Reaper Artifact in Mass Effect: Evolution, which made him understand weird languages, writings, had visions like Shepard and could "feel" where the artifact was. He's been suffering from a minor case of indoctrination and/or husk cybernetics (eyes) since before he was TIM. With the coming of the Reapers, who knows what effect that has on him.

If he is indoctrinated, then he will be very similar to Desolas Arterius in Evolution, just pro-human instead.

[Trakarg]

it's possible that Shepard simply thinks they're indoctrinated. It's certainly the most likely reason for them wanting him dead during the middle of a Reaper invasion.

But there might be another reason that Shepard wouldn't have thought of.

[ADelusiveMan]

Trakarg wrote...

it's possible that Shepard simply thinks they're indoctrinated. It's certainly the most likely reason for them wanting him dead during the middle of a Reaper invasion.

But there might be another reason that Shepard wouldn't have thought of.

Like...P!ssing them off for destroying the Collector base?

Modifié par ADelusiveMan, 01 juillet 2011 - 03:22 .

[Adanu]

kaiki01 wrote...

Undertone wrote...

kaiki01 wrote...

Adanu wrote...

Big_Stupid_Jelly wrote...

Undertone wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Adanu wrote...

Cerberus saved the galaxy from Harbinger and Sovereign.

What Cerberus has to do with Sovereign?
Sure, Cerberus was the one behind spoiling Harbingers plan, but Cerberus had nothing to do with Sovereign.

Cerberus persuaded the Alliance to work with the Turians in order to create the first Normandy. Without Cerberus there wouldn't be both Normandy 1 and 2 and without it Shepard would be blown to pieces on multiple occasions since he/she wouldn't have a stealth ship.

Technically Cerberus part of the Alliance at the time of the Normandy 1's commission, so basically the Alliance told itself.

Also in ME2 the Normandy 2 didn't prove to be that Stealthy as some mercs on Omega 'saw' them coming miles away, apparently.

Try to use semantics and technicalities all you want. They still saved the galaxy.

Nope. The Alliance did. They built the first Normandy. Without the Alliance there wouldn't be both Normandy 1 and 2(since 2 was a modified replica of 1) and without it
Shepard would be blown to pieces on multiple occasions since he/she
wouldn't have a stealth ship.

Sure -

Encouraged =/= build, design, implement.

Point <-----------------------------------------------------------------> You

[Urazz]

It raised an eyebrow for me but honestly now that I think about it, it's not that surprising. Cerberus is notorious for trying to use or research dangerous stuff to advance humanity. They are also notoriious for having it blow up in their faces and Shepard ends up having to clean up after their messes.

So if Cerberus got some sort of reaper artifact and it indoctrinated the Cerberus leadership, it really shouldn't be that surpising.

[Lotion Soronarr]

kaiki01 wrote...

Encouraged =/= build, design, implement.

Encourage = pressure, push, convince.
Would the Normandy have even be built withous Cerberus influence?
Even if it wold, would it have been built IN TIME for Shaperad to make use of it?

Wihout TIM and Cerberus, would Shepard even know about Collectors.? The Colelctor base? The Reaper IFF?
And while Cerbers was TECHNICLY part of the alliance, it was a separeate group even then, with it's own agende. If that wasn't hte case it would have gone rouge.


Lt's face the facts here - Bioware writers did screw up a bit wiht Cerberus, for thy couldn't think up of better missions.
Dev1: "We need a few mroe missions for this expansion pack."
Dev2: "Hmm..How about a Batarian terrorist act?"
Dev1: "We did that."
Dev3: "failed Cerberus experiment?"
Dev2: "We already did that too."
Dev1: "Don't matter. If yo udon't think of anything better than that b tomorrow, roll with it."

Teh cerberus side-missions stretch my supension of disbelief as it is already.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Sarcastic Tasha wrote...

It was a crafty (if somewhat cheap) way of making sure everyone was in the same place with regards to Cerberus. Some Shepards like Cerberus and might want to continue working with them instead of going back to the Alliance. If Shepard kept the base then he/she would still be on good terms with TIM so there needed to be a reason Shepard couldn't stay with Cerberus. I'm hoping part way through ME3 Shepard will discover a way to cure indoctrination and Cerberus will become allies again.

To me this is nothing more than pathetic writing and game design.

To make player decisions pointless by re-setting everything with a McGuffin. To put one a completely linear path where your choices affect only cosmetical things (do I have army X or army Y on my side?)