54 réponses à ce sujet

[dantares83]

 If you followed a purely paragon path... you would realize that Cerberus is one of the worst organizations in the world... none of their project suceeded....

Project Subject Zero - to train/toture one of the most powerful biotic girl in the world - girl destroyed the whole base... (*face palm*)

Project Hade Dogs - Conduct illegal genetic tests on humans to generate a powerful arrmy - stopped by Shepard

Project Rachni - Subdue Rachni for their powers - Rachni goes beserk 

Project Throian - Test Throian for their power - all employees became husks

Project Lazurus - Ultimate aim is to gain the Colletor's base - destroyed by my Shepard anyway... 

Project Overlord - Speak to the geth!!!! - poor boy sent to the academy by Shepard... 

Project Gillian - Another sick attempt to train/toture potential powerful biotic girl... - biotic girl disappeared and is coming back to AVENGE her father in the coming book...

Project Human Repear - Revenge against ex-employee and again, generate a powerful army - ex-employee dead at the end

how many more failures TIM can take before he goes crazy and bankrupt from all these failures...

btw, is Miranda still working under him or not? She told him clearly she is submitting the resignation at the base but yet when we are back at the Normandy... she appears to be working under him again... what gives? so will she suffer a Paul Grayson's fate?

Modifié par dantares83, 30 juin 2011 - 11:05 .

[CroGamer002]

Thanks Captain Obvious.

Can we have less talks about Failberus?

[ElitePinecone]

We've been told Cerberus has resources and funding beyond what we see in the books or games. They're probably running a dozen or more 'projects' at the one time; we only see the ones that the writers feel are important enough to mention. Also keep in mind that you're assuming the player followed a paragon path. It's equally possible to not disrupt Cerberus in Mass Effect then support them to a great extent in ME2.

The games' story isn't meant to be realistic, and events have to be shaped in the direction proposed by the writers. Even though it might look like TIM is a terrible leader and fails at everything, it's because this is all talking place in a universe constructed by the developers.

On your last point, Miranda officially resigns from Cerberus at the end of ME2 (at least, she does if you destroy the base - I can't remember the Renegade option).

[LGTX]

Most of those failures were from outside factors. TIM himself didn't screw those up. And you know how it goes, no genius intelligence can stop Shepard if he's targeted you

[dantares83]

ElitePinecone wrote...

We've been told Cerberus has resources and funding beyond what we see in the books or games. They're probably running a dozen or more 'projects' at the one time; we only see the ones that the writers feel are important enough to mention. Also keep in mind that you're assuming the player followed a paragon path. It's equally possible to not disrupt Cerberus in Mass Effect then support them to a great extent in ME2.

The games' story isn't meant to be realistic, and events have to be shaped in the direction proposed by the writers. Even though it might look like TIM is a terrible leader and fails at everything, it's because this is all talking place in a universe constructed by the developers.

On your last point, Miranda officially resigns from Cerberus at the end of ME2 (at least, she does if you destroy the base - I can't remember the Renegade option).

yeah, she did that.. but when we go back and talk to her, she speaks as if she is still working for Shadow Broker and we haven't had fun at the engineering deck..

[PrinceLionheart]

LGTX wrote...

Most of those failures were from outside factors. TIM himself didn't screw those up. And you know how it goes, no genius intelligence can stop Shepard if he's targeted you

That's still a problem with TIM though IMO. Keeping your subordinates in line is part of being a leader. The fact that so many cells defected under his watch is pretty bad.

[ladyvader]

PrinceLionheart wrote...

LGTX wrote...

Most of those failures were from outside factors. TIM himself didn't screw those up. And you know how it goes, no genius intelligence can stop Shepard if he's targeted you

That's still a problem with TIM though IMO. Keeping your subordinates in line is part of being a leader. The fact that so many cells defected under his watch is pretty bad.

I don't think those cells went as "rogue" as Miranda or TIM said they did.  Please, they knew TIM didn't broker failure, so they did what they needed to do please him.

Every thing we have seen by Cerberus has failed, expect for bring Shepard back.   However, if you listen to Miranda's logs and changed your Shep in anyway, then it was a failure.  Shepard was suppose to come back exactly like Shepard was before the Normandy blew up.

After watching the opening scene of ME2 and thinking about what both TIM and Miranda said, I'm starting to think TIM set the Normandy up to be destroyed by the collectors, so he could get Shepard and force him/her to work for Cerberus.  What other reason would Cerberus rebuilt the Normandy, which would take longer than two years to build.  

[randomcheeses]

To be honest, it's not so much that TIM is a bad leader, but that he's up against Shepard, who is just that badass.

[ladyvader]

randomcheeses wrote...

To be honest, it's not so much that TIM is a bad leader, but that he's up against Shepard, who is just that badass.

He's a horrible leader to be quite honest.  It has nothing to do with Shepard.

Every project that Shep runs across is a failure.  That is on TIM and the people he hired to do the job.  Just saying oh that cell went rogue is nonsense.  And it's just an excuse for the failure.  He couldn't even keep Shepard in line or Miranda for that matter when it came to the collector base.  Shep blows it up and Miranda quits.

[Berkilak]

This used to crop up a lot at ME2's release.

In short, Shepard only sees the programs that have gone awry since the others don't need his/her attention in the slightest. For every failure, there are arguably dozens of successes. You don't need a resurrected Spectre shooting everyone up in the ones that are going fine, though.

Modifié par Berkilak, 30 juin 2011 - 08:11 .

[Legion_Geth]

So? If you play renegade, TIM is the best leader

[ladyvader]

Berkilak wrote...

This used to crop up a lot at ME2's release.

In short, Shepard only sees the programs that have gone awry since the others don't need his/her attention in the slightest. For every failure, there are arguably dozens of successes. You don't need a resurrected Spectre shooting everyone up in the ones that are going fine, though.

He has no more than a dozen projects at a time, Shep has dealth with at least half that many if you count both games. 

In my view when you have that many failures, that makes your leadership skills suspect and a failure.  He is all about dominating the galaxy. 

I just hope I can kill that jerk in ME3 and end Cerberus once and for all.  Humanity needs to work with other speicies not dominate them. 

[1136342t54_]

To be honest Cerberus didn't fail too much lets take a look at there successes.

Powered armor

ME3 Cerberus seems to be using the best armor on the market that has jet packs and heavy armor. No one in the rest of the galaxy has that.

They even send Shepard multiple armor suits that seem to be the best on the market.

Weapons

Cerberus are able to create or modify effectively some of the best weapons on the market giving Shepard and team a very good advantage.

Cybernetics

Shepard can be upgraded to the point where his bones are unbreakable, skin is resistant to gun fire, and Shep can also get medi gel to flow through his/her skin and bones through enhancements. Shep even gets a muscle weave and obvious strength upgrade that can put a human on par with Krogan in hand to hand.

Information Network

Cerberus has one of the greatest info networks in the Galaxy second only to the Shadow Broker. The Broker even considered Cerberus a threat which is saying something.

To be honest the cerberus project failures aren't due to leadership on TIM's part. Its either because of incompetence of his researchers or foreign interference.

[ladyvader]

Legion_Geth wrote...

So? If you play renegade, TIM is the best leader

How?  Half of his projects are failures.  When you have that many failures, that makes you a failure.

[ladyvader]

1136342t54 wrote...

To be honest Cerberus didn't fail too much lets take a look at there successes.

Powered armor

ME3 Cerberus seems to be using the best armor on the market that has jet packs and heavy armor. No one in the rest of the galaxy has that.

They even send Shepard multiple armor suits that seem to be the best on the market.

Weapons

Cerberus are able to create or modify effectively some of the best weapons on the market giving Shepard and team a very good advantage.

Cybernetics

Shepard can be upgraded to the point where his bones are unbreakable, skin is resistant to gun fire, and Shep can also get medi gel to flow through his/her skin and bones through enhancements. Shep even gets a muscle weave and obvious strength upgrade that can put a human on par with Krogan in hand to hand.

Information Network

Cerberus has one of the greatest info networks in the Galaxy second only to the Shadow Broker. The Broker even considered Cerberus a threat which is saying something.

To be honest the cerberus project failures aren't due to leadership on TIM's part. Its either because of incompetence of his researchers or foreign interference.

Responding to bold.  Who hired them?  TIM did, that makes him a crapolo leader.

[Legion_Geth]

ladyvader wrote...

Legion_Geth wrote...

So? If you play renegade, TIM is the best leader

How?  Half of his projects are failures.  When you have that many failures, that makes you a failure.

the operatives are failures for not keeping it running/safe/secure

Modifié par Legion_Geth, 30 juin 2011 - 08:18 .

[Berkilak]

If he has enough financial successes to research and carry out a technique to resurrect a person that smashed into a planet, I think we can rest assured that there are enough projects out there that are bringing Cerberus that success.

Just because you don't see Shepard going to the bathroom doesn't mean he doesn't poo. You just don't see the extraneous details.

[1136342t54_]

ladyvader wrote...
Responding to bold.  Who hired them?  TIM did, that makes him a crapolo leader.

I like how you ignored everything and just boled what you wante to respond to.

Thats inaccurate. Its like saying the President of a corporation or a Five star General is responsible for hiring a technician or a Army recruit.

[ladyvader]

1136342t54 wrote...

ladyvader wrote...
Responding to bold.  Who hired them?  TIM did, that makes him a crapolo leader.

I like how you ignored everything and just boled what you wante to respond to.

Thats inaccurate. Its like saying the President of a corporation or a Five star General is responsible for hiring a technician or a Army recruit.

Actually, it is their responsiblity know what is going on with in their corporation or as you put the military.  And yes, they are responsible.  They are in charge of the whole thing.  They are the ones that hire and deligate responsiblites to others.  If they don't do their job, they get replaced.  Cerberus doesn't seem to have anyone else to replace TIM.  If they do, they haven't done so.

I will use Gov. Rick Scott of FL and his frauding of Medicare as an example.  He was the CEO of that company.  The company let him go after paying over $1 billion in fines.  Of course he had a golden parachute package when he left, but he was still let go.   It is the CEO's job to know what is going on.  Which is what TIM is with Cerberus.  The top guy.  

EDIT:I didn't touch the other stuff because to be quite honest is because Cerberus didn't create the upgrades.  You either bought them or found them on missions.  Also about the weapons.  Who's to say they didn't co-op those with the Alliance?  The Normandy isn't a Cerberus design.  The armor upgrade to the Normandy was from the Alliance and was actually an asari design.  The upgrade to the forward batteries were turian.  Not sure about the shields Tali upgraded.  It didn't say which species made them.

Cerberus is a failure and nothing you say will change that fact.

Modifié par ladyvader, 30 juin 2011 - 09:01 .

[PrinceLionheart]

ladyvader wrote...

PrinceLionheart wrote...

LGTX wrote...

Most of those failures were from outside factors. TIM himself didn't screw those up. And you know how it goes, no genius intelligence can stop Shepard if he's targeted you

That's still a problem with TIM though IMO. Keeping your subordinates in line is part of being a leader. The fact that so many cells defected under his watch is pretty bad.

I don't think those cells went as "rogue" as Miranda or TIM said they did.  Please, they knew TIM didn't broker failure, so they did what they needed to do please him.

Oh, I have no doubt TIM is lying out of his teeth. "Going Rogue" tends to be the number 1 defense a lot of the Cerberus supporters. Just for me though, the idea of so many cells going rogue makes TIM even less trustworthy.

[ladyvader]

PrinceLionheart wrote...

ladyvader wrote...

PrinceLionheart wrote...

LGTX wrote...

Most of those failures were from outside factors. TIM himself didn't screw those up. And you know how it goes, no genius intelligence can stop Shepard if he's targeted you

That's still a problem with TIM though IMO. Keeping your subordinates in line is part of being a leader. The fact that so many cells defected under his watch is pretty bad.

I don't think those cells went as "rogue" as Miranda or TIM said they did.  Please, they knew TIM didn't broker failure, so they did what they needed to do please him.

Oh, I have no doubt TIM is lying out of his teeth. "Going Rogue" tends to be the number 1 defense a lot of the Cerberus supporters. Just for me though, the idea of so many cells going rogue makes TIM even less trustworthy.

That is what I'm getting at.  It's just an excuse.  Both on Pragia and during Overlord it's mentioned TIM won't care as long as we get results.  So, if they got the results, it wasn't a rogue cell, but because it was a failure, it's rogue.  BS.

[ERJAK1]

ladyvader wrote...

PrinceLionheart wrote...

LGTX wrote...

Most of those failures were from outside factors. TIM himself didn't screw those up. And you know how it goes, no genius intelligence can stop Shepard if he's targeted you

That's still a problem with TIM though IMO. Keeping your subordinates in line is part of being a leader. The fact that so many cells defected under his watch is pretty bad.

I don't think those cells went as "rogue" as Miranda or TIM said they did.  Please, they knew TIM didn't broker failure, so they did what they needed to do please him.

Every thing we have seen by Cerberus has failed, expect for bring Shepard back.   However, if you listen to Miranda's logs and changed your Shep in anyway, then it was a failure.  Shepard was suppose to come back exactly like Shepard was before the Normandy blew up.

After watching the opening scene of ME2 and thinking about what both TIM and Miranda said, I'm starting to think TIM set the Normandy up to be destroyed by the collectors, so he could get Shepard and force him/her to work for Cerberus.  What other reason would Cerberus rebuilt the Normandy, which would take longer than two years to build.  

To be fair to TIM though, his cells don't have an overly high failure rate relative to any super-high tech, cutting edge exploratory research. One perfect succes(Telling death to go **** itself) versus 7 or 8 complete failures wouldn't be so bad...except those seven or 8 failures are CATASTROPHIC, resulting in MANY deaths BILLIONS of dollars of damage, and unleashing extremely powerful and hostile entities onto the rest of the galaxy.

So yeah, don't undervalue his achievements, but don't trust him with the collector base either.

Modifié par ERJAK1, 30 juin 2011 - 09:11 .

[DoNotIngest]

I have a brother like TIM. Fails at all his internet-company and real estate-company schemes.


Funny, his name's Tim, too.

[CroGamer002]

Legion_Geth wrote...

ladyvader wrote...

Legion_Geth wrote...

So? If you play renegade, TIM is the best leader

How?  Half of his projects are failures.  When you have that many failures, that makes you a failure.

the operatives are failures for not keeping it running/safe/secure

I'm sorry but who game them their jobs?




If worker screw up building your house, you won't sue a worker for damage but company that gave him a job.