54 réponses à ce sujet

[mineralica]

First of all, the only person who doesn't make mistakes... is person who does nothing. Failures are the parts of any experiments, and Cerberus is very well organized system if they may stand - and not even proved to be responsible - under that failures.
Yes, yes, I know their failures led to brutalconsequences. But that experiments would be brutal regardless succeed or not (Teltin won't be happier place if Jack won't blow it skyhigh. Neither Overlord. Nor tests on husks. Nor Hades dogs operation).
Yes, TIM sometimes pick wrong people for experiments. But let's imagine what big choice he has among only humans (ME2 and Shepard are the first case when aliens are involved), experts in said area (humanity contacts with progressive technologies only for about 30 years. Scientific schools dedicated for "modern" day tasks? What?), and in addition morally questionable one (either this or you force scientist to work for terrorists. See "Paragon Shepard" for latter). Yes, he might just do nothing - but this is the point of his work, progress of humanity no matter the odds. So, sometimes he might get failure because of "human factor", but this sounds as unevitable evil.

So, what about TIM? Morally horrible? Surely. Had failures? Without any questions. Arrogant? Depends on your perception. But considering his motives and odds, what he does is the best for existing situation - TIM may be anybody, but he's definitely not idiot or "worst project leader"

[Beerfish]

Like the head of most multinationals all those failures will not affect his bonuses and stock options so no worry!

TIM's biggest problem to me is that I think he is a control freak that wants to keep his fingers in everything and simply can't do it. Such as the Telton Facility of Pregia, they were doing all of those bad things without him really knowing what the hell was going on. He needs to delegate more like he did with Miranda.

[BatmanPWNS]

I don't know why everyone hates TIM. I think his a very interesting character and fits the bad guy role perfectly well.

[Spectre_907]

dantares83 wrote...

none of their project suceeded....

That is false.

Project Subject Zero - to train/toture one of the most powerful biotic girl in the world - girl destroyed the whole base... (*face palm*)

No. The purpose was to create resistances to omega-enkaphalin via nanosurgery on Jack and augment biotic abilities by use of pain-induced methods. Whether the subject escaped is irrelevant. It provided the necessary research data needed and the experiment was considered a success. Subject Zero is the most powerful human biotic, no?

Project Hade Dogs - Conduct illegal genetic tests on humans to generate a powerful arrmy - stopped by Shepard

Shepard had no information on what they were planning except what Kahoku said.

Project Rachni - Subdue Rachni for their powers - Rachni goes beserk

That was Binary Helix, not Cerberus.

Project Throian - Test Throian for their power - all employees became husks

That was not done by Cerberus nor do the Throrian creepers have anything to do with husks. That was by ExoGeni. Nevertheless, it was a success, they figured out a way to make them obedient. This is a success.

You're confused with Chasca. But again, see my previous point.

Project Lazurus - Ultimate aim is to gain the Colletor's base - destroyed by my Shepard anyway...

First, the project was to resurrect Shepard. Shepard is alive and breathing with full cognative abilities and previous talents, right? Second, TIM had no idea what was beyond the Omega-4 relay. What do you think the purpose of the suicide mission was?

Project Overlord - Speak to the geth!!!! - poor boy sent to the academy by Shepard...

They succeeded in controlling the geth with a side affect because of Gavin Archer's desperation. TIM was aware of the lack of results and ordered the project to be shut down. This was a rogue operation.

Project Gillian - Another sick attempt to train/toture potential powerful biotic girl... - biotic girl disappeared and is coming back to AVENGE her father in the coming book...

It produced powerful biotic abilities by use of the drug from Dr. Jiro Toshiwa. Given time with the drug, the side effects would have been mitigated. Nevertheless, this never occured in the game.

Project Human Repear - Revenge against ex-employee and again, generate a powerful army - ex-employee dead at the end

It provided insight into indoctrination and husk conversion, something that was lacking in ME2. This is a direct benefit to Shepard. There was no information that TIM's plans were to create a private army. That is pure speculation. And again, it never occurred in the game.

Modifié par Spectre_907, 30 juin 2011 - 10:32 .

[ERJAK1]

Spectre_907 wrote...

dantares83 wrote...

none of their project suceeded....

That is false.

Project Subject Zero - to train/toture one of the most powerful biotic girl in the world - girl destroyed the whole base... (*face palm*)

No. The purpose was to create resistances to omega-enkaphalin via nanosurgery on Jack and augment biotic abilities by use of pain-induced methods. Whether the subject escaped is irrelevant. It provided the necessary research data needed and the experiment was considered a success. Subject Zero is the most powerful human biotic, no?

Project Hade Dogs - Conduct illegal genetic tests on humans to generate a powerful arrmy - stopped by Shepard

Shepard had no information on what they were planning except what Kahoku said.

Project Rachni - Subdue Rachni for their powers - Rachni goes beserk

That was Binary Helix, not Cerberus.

Project Throian - Test Throian for their power - all employees became husks

That was not done by Cerberus nor do the Throrian creepers have anything to do with husks. That was by ExoGeni. Nevertheless, it was a success, they figured out a way to make them obedient. This is a success.

You're confused with Chasca. But again, see my previous point.

Project Lazurus - Ultimate aim is to gain the Colletor's base - destroyed by my Shepard anyway...

First, the project was to resurrect Shepard. Shepard is alive and breathing with full cognative abilities and previous talents, right? Second, TIM had no idea what was beyond the Omega-4 relay. What do you think the purpose of the suicide mission was?

Project Overlord - Speak to the geth!!!! - poor boy sent to the academy by Shepard...

How is a paragon choice indicative of a failure? They succeeded in controlling the geth with a side affect because of Gavin Archer's desperation. TIM was aware of the lack of results and ordered the project to be shut down. This was a rogue operation.

Project Gillian - Another sick attempt to train/toture potential powerful biotic girl... - biotic girl disappeared and is coming back to AVENGE her father in the coming book...

It produced powerful biotic abilities by use of the drug from Dr. Jiro Toshiwa. Given time with the drug, the side effects would have been mitigated.

Project Human Repear - Revenge against ex-employee and again, generate a powerful army - ex-employee dead at the end

It provided insight into indoctrination and husk conversion, something that was lacking in ME2. This is a direct benefit to Shepard. There was no information that TIM's plans were to create a private army. That is pure speculation.

This is an anti-Cerberus paragon rant. Nothing more.

And this is the same type of longview procerberus propaganda that they would use to justify the atrocities they have commited. THE ENDS DO NOT ALWAYS JUSTIFY THE MEANS.

AND EVEN WHEN THEY DO IT MEANS NOTHING IF YOU DECIMATE GALACTIC RESOUCES TO GET THERE.
(pragia killed how many human biotics?)

[Spectre_907]

ERJAK1 wrote...

And this is the same type of longview procerberus propaganda that they would use to justify the atrocities they have commited. THE ENDS DO NOT ALWAYS JUSTIFY THE MEANS.

They do to the Illusive Man. All of their projects produced the desired outcome. How they did it is irrelevant. As for the notion of 'longview propaganda', no. My responses are factually based. The OP's isn't.

AND EVEN WHEN THEY DO IT MEANS NOTHING IF YOU DECIMATE GALACTIC RESOUCES TO GET THERE.
(pragia killed how many human biotics?)

Except that Cerberus never did anything like that so it the question is irrelevant. It dosen't matter how many biotics were killed, tortured, etc., on Pragia. The purpose was what I outlined and the result was met. This is a success.

[1136342t54_]

ladyvader wrote...
Actually, it is their responsiblity know what is going on with in their corporation or as you put the military.  And yes, they are responsible.  They are in charge of the whole thing.  They are the ones that hire and deligate responsiblites to others.  If they don't do their job, they get replaced.  Cerberus doesn't seem to have anyone else to replace TIM.  If they do, they haven't done so.

I will use Gov. Rick Scott of FL and his frauding of Medicare as an example.  He was the CEO of that company.  The company let him go after paying over $1 billion in fines.  Of course he had a golden parachute package when he left, but he was still let go.   It is the CEO's job to know what is going on.  Which is what TIM is with Cerberus.  The top guy.  

You pretty much ignored my post again. The General or the head of a Corporation doesn't directly hire anyone. They may give certain standards for what they want but they won't do it directly.  Hell some of the failed projects wasn't really a failure that got anyone killed. Shepard usually stumbled upon active Cerberus operations that were testing or ended up at a test sight. Most of the time Shepard just killed the Cerberus personale and destroyed the operation.

The only real disastrous failures were the Rachni project and that was because they underestimated the intelligence of a bug that was equivalent to a child. The biotic supersoldier was the fault of a few researchers that operated in a separate cell and were morally corrupt and Overlord which to be honest actually did succeed. The problem is was that Archer was trying to rush making assumptions that TIM would possibly kill him.

EDIT:I didn't touch the other stuff because to be quite honest is because Cerberus didn't create the upgrades.  You either bought them or found them on missions.  Also about the weapons.  Who's to say they didn't co-op those with the Alliance?  The Normandy isn't a Cerberus design.  The armor upgrade to the Normandy was from the Alliance and was actually an asari design.  The upgrade to the forward batteries were turian.  Not sure about the shields Tali upgraded.  It didn't say which species made them.

Cerberus is a failure and nothing you say will change that fact.

Why are you using upgrades for the Normandy as examples when I specifically used Cybernetic upgrades? I used those because it makes a lot of sense because Cerberus is responsible for most of the Cybernetic technology that could bring someone back from the dead. No one has ever done that and the tech capable of that had to be developed by Cerberus. The only thing is that Cerberus project can go right if it has the right project lead.

Also I didn't just mention upgrades I mentioned powered armor, weapons and even there information network. 

 

Modifié par 1136342t54 , 01 juillet 2011 - 12:16 .

[tobynator89]

well his most GLARING managerial flaw is human resource managment. guy can't pick a non- megalomaniacal/trustworthy teamleader worth ****.

[Gavinthelocust]

If Cerberus actually thought for a minute they could be a black market research, medicine, and weaponry company very successfully. Only problem is that they have delusions of humans being more powerful and superior than aliens or laws that lead to failure. All of their wildly illegal projects to further mankind can possibly collapse while their medical and warfare research is amazing.

[Dave of Canada]

dantares83 wrote...

Project Subject Zero - to train/toture one of the most powerful biotic girl in the world - girl destroyed the whole base... (*face palm*)

Though the Project was a success, she became the strongest human biotic and the research from the facility showed how to achieve it. She wasn't the most powerful biotic girl, she became one through research and experiments. Which probably led to Gillian's treatment later down the line being less brutal (though still brutal by "good" morals)

Project Hade Dogs - Conduct illegal genetic tests on humans to generate a powerful arrmy - stopped by Shepard

Ignoring the fact that Kahoku is the one who tells you about this, it's known that Cerberus is trying to create super-soldiers to save potential human lives. It's why they researched the following:

Project Rachni - Subdue Rachni for their powers - Rachni goes beserk

Which was unforseen consequences, considering they used the Rachni eggs from Noveria (that Saren was the one funding). The Rachni project was to tame them like animals and use them like warhounds to save human lives, not because of their "powers".

Project Throian - Test Throian for their power - all employees became husks

Incorrect, this was Binary Helix.

Project Lazurus - Ultimate aim is to gain the Colletor's base - destroyed by my Shepard anyway...

Project Lazarus brought back Shepard, supplied them and gave them intel to gather a squad and track down the Collector Base. Shepard, which is considered a Cerberus operative, fufills his purpose. The project is a success in bringing back Shepard and dealing with the Collector Base.

In addition to this, Shepard is revived to lead an army against the Reapers. Meaning that the entire events of Mass Effect 3 is a direct result of Project Lazarus and it's success. It only failed if Shepard died in the non-canon ending, though not before destroying the Collectors.

Project Overlord - Speak to the geth!!!! - poor boy sent to the academy by Shepard...

Project Overlord's purpose was to control the Geth and use them as Shocktroopers (saving human lives), the project itself was successful as David was capable of not only controlling the Geth but stop them from being able to "unhack" themselves. It only fails if Shepard intervenes and shuts down the project by taking away the only potential candidate.

Project Gillian - Another sick attempt to train/toture potential powerful biotic girl... - biotic girl disappeared and is coming back to AVENGE her father in the coming book...

She's also an extremely powerful biotic, project successful!  

Project Human Repear - Revenge against ex-employee and again, generate a powerful army - ex-employee dead at the end

Grayson's purpose was to study indocrination and Reaper tech's effects on the body, the research was accomplished. Nothing to do with "powerful army" and Grayson was going to die regardless of him escaping or not, which he only accomplished due to the lack of intelligence from the turians and Anderson.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 01 juillet 2011 - 01:10 .

[dantares83]

For Rachnni,

No, in assignment Depot Sigma 23, Cerberus smuggled the eggs but they hatched and killed everyone on ship...

For Thorian

They did asked for the samples from theagency and whole facility was destroyed... and while fighting with spectre from LotSB, she did mentioned they experimented with Thorians blah blah blah so I WAS NOT TO JUDGE her as I am no better... 

Modifié par dantares83, 01 juillet 2011 - 01:22 .

[Dave of Canada]

They had Thorians in cages, they did experiment with them. They just didn't all "turn into husks", nothing happened involving Thorians.

[Seboist]

It was Exogeni who was behind the Thorian experiment not Binary Helix @Dave.

[Dave of Canada]

Seboist wrote...

It was Exogeni who was behind the Thorian experiment not Binary Helix @Dave.

Touche.

[dantares83]

 but if u explored the facility at Colony of the Dead...

they mentioned Cerberus is involved...

[Skirata129]

the only cerberus projects you see are the failed ones, because they sent you i to clean up the mess. why would they send you in to see a project that was running perfectly fine and on schedule?

[1136342t54_]

Skirata129 wrote...

the only cerberus projects you see are the failed ones, because they sent you i to clean up the mess. why would they send you in to see a project that was running perfectly fine and on schedule?

Wasn't that the Colony that Cerberus was specifically testing Husk and Dragons teeth on?

[Skirata129]

the ME1 projects seemed to be going pretty smoothly... until my shep kicked in the front door, shut off the containment shields and started shooting. lol

Modifié par Skirata129, 01 juillet 2011 - 03:51 .

[S.A.K]

Maybe the get success but we just don't hear them. Its not like they publish everything on the extranet "Out toture tests produced the most powerful biotic ever!"
Well you get the idea.

[1136342t54_]

Skirata129 wrote...

the ME1 projects seemed to be going pretty smoothly... until my shep kicked in the front door, shut off the containment shields and started shooting. lol

Wait I didn't mean to quote in the post before this but it is somewhat related since that Colony Cerberus little field test was technically working but Shepard pretty much wiped them all out.

SCREW SCIENCE!

[fenix8081]

Hate to be captain obvious, but there's definitely one project that was a complete success, Project Lazarus. Without that major success we'd have nothing to write about on here. He'll, it even worked so well it backfired on him if you're the paragon type since he didn't put in that control chip like Miranda wanted.

[Repearized Miranda]

BatmanPWNS wrote...

I don't know why everyone hates TIM. I think his a very interesting character and fits the bad guy role perfectly well.

Same could be said for Cerberus (a vast majority here don't like them) I'm not gonna say because he's one of the bad guys; yet, he is head of the maligned organization that is thus. Even if it wasn't just this, I doubt anyone is saying "he's a bad character" (if so, then a Renegade Shepard is a bad character because s/he can be just as ruthless as TIM). Both are bad un the sense that they aren't good, but neither lack character though they see things in a much darker light.

[LOLandStuff]

Cerberus should hire Shepard as their janitor.
Everyone, prepare your mops and buckets and start cleaning up the mess.