413 réponses à ce sujet

[DoNotIngest]

Bnol wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Destroying geth is obviously not as simple as pressing a button. Once the war had started, quarian noncombatants were no threat to them. Even the soldiers might not have been as much of a threat as you'd expect. The Codex said that the geth platforms showed no survival instincts because the programs inside were backed up.

We don't know what the numbers of initial casualties were.  We do know that the geth were simple programs, presumably they were present in all Quarian homes/workplaces, which means  Quarians destroying mosr of their home and work appliances/computers/mobile platforms might have been enough to eliminate Geth sentience.  Were the Geth supposed to just fight the conventional military when the threat was actually everywhere.  The family robot fought back when you tried to kill it.  This likely happened in millions of homes and caused millions of deaths.

IDK it was pretty damn easy to kill millions of Geth in ME2 on the heretic station.

True, but the Quarians were sure that the Geth weren't truly sentient yet, and were still just machines. "Killing the family robot" (probably more than one per household) was probably believed to be more a task of a simple shutdown, which turned out quite bloodier & sadder.

See last two posts for some less-argument-continuing reasoning.

[The Baconer]

DoNotIngest wrote...
That being said, I never said that the Geth might want peace *now*. It'd be all well and good if the Geth gave the Quarians back their homeworld & systems in exchange for peace treaties from the organics of the Milky Way. What I'm saying is that while the Quarians may not have made a pretty choice in trying to shut down the Geth, the Geth's crimes certainly outweigh it. Attempted genocide is the lesser evil than 99.9% genocide in my eyes; Is that so nonsensical?

It's genocide one way or another. Would you be saying the same if the Quarians were succesful in wiping out the Geth?

[DoNotIngest]

Can we all agree that the Quarians were misguided in believing that the Geth hadn't yet achieved true sentiency and a will to "live", and so started the conflict when Quarians found their supposed "machines" fighting instead of being turned off like the tools they had previously been?

And that the Geth took it way too far for whatever reasons in killing *that* many Quarians?

And that racial grudges will continue, but for the love of everybody, sign some treaties, let them back on their planet, leave the Geth to their consensus, and everyone'll be happier.




@TheBaconer: If the Quarians had been succesful at wiping out the Geth, it would be because they were still machines, and would not have resisted like an organism would. The Quarians obviously would have realized very quickly that the crushingly larger numbers of the Geth would destroy them in true War; That's the whole reason they tried to shut them down before they crossed the Machine-Sentient line, so they'd avoid revolts and bloodshed.

Modifié par DoNotIngest, 30 juin 2011 - 10:05 .

[Someone With Mass]

DoNotIngest wrote...

@Mass

While it may not be forgivable, I'm pretty sure peace & avoidance is in the best interests of the Geth, Quarians & Galaxy as a whole.

Sure, but I think telling the quarians to immediately turn the other cheek at the machine race that almost killed them all just because they have to work together is a little too much to ask for. 

It's like telling a war veteran to get over the deaths of his friends in half an hour.

[Blitzkrieg0811]

Rachni making a glorious sacrifce to atone for their history of genocide would be most fitting. Also, Vorcha and Krogans. (And Batarians if they aren't already extinct.)

[DoNotIngest]

Someone With Mass wrote...

DoNotIngest wrote...

@Mass

While it may not be forgivable, I'm pretty sure peace & avoidance is in the best interests of the Geth, Quarians & Galaxy as a whole.

Sure, but I think telling the quarians to immediately turn the other cheek at the machine race that almost killed them all just because they have to work together is a little too much to ask for. 

It's like telling a war veteran to get over the deaths of his friends in half an hour.

I've already said my piece in other threads about how if it came to the Geth & Quarians fighting together, it should only ever be with the Geth sustaining all possible casualties. This is because the "programs", the supposed "minds, souls, etc." of the Geth, are sent back completely unharmed to Hubs & Collectives when a "platform", the shell, the mechanical "body" of the Geth, is destroyed. So no Geth are truly destroyed, while the Quarians stay out of harm's way and fire from long range; the only loss is actual, non-sentient machinery.

I'm not suggesting the Quarians "get over it". My Shepard will always be pissed at the Geth, even without his bias at being with Tali. But to prevent any more certain slaughters, sacrifices (AKA working together) must be made.

[DoNotIngest]

Blitzkrieg0811 wrote...

Rachni making a glorious sacrifce to atone for their history of genocide would be most fitting. Also, Vorcha and Krogans. (And Batarians if they aren't already extinct.)

Rachni were indocrinated, the game has said. While they should still bear shame, they aren't truly to blame (DEWDRIMES!). Vorcha I can see, I suppose, as they're really still animals. Krogan, not so much, they've paid a lot for their revolt (and had saved the Galaxy where the Rachni were concerned, previously), and they're bitter for a reason (piles of dead babies will do that to you).


Batarians, I think it's safe to say, are now in a worse boat than the Quarians. Makes me feel fairly sympathetic, even.

[wizardryforever]

DoNotIngest wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...

DoNotIngest wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...

Okay, so what exactly was stopping the Geth from completing their "genocide," hmm?  Nothing that I can see.  It seems more like they simply let the Quarians go.  The Geth could have easily hunted them all down and destroyed them in the 300 years since the initial war.  Given that the Quarians still haven't given up wanting to destroy the Geth, it seems quite likely that they kept fighting until they had no choice but to flee.  The Geth, realizing that the Migrant Fleet was not a threat, let them go.  If it was genocide they were after, they would not have done that.

What was stopping the Geth, eh? You realize the Geth weren't created to be an army, right? They were created to be a workforce. Compare them to the Reapers; Reapers take centuries to wipe out civilizations, and they number in the thousands, and are much more advanced than their prey. I'm amazed the Geth were able to hunt down as many Quarians as they managed.


And the Council was preventing them from completing their Genocide. Note that the survivors fled Quarian space and now keep constantly on the move in Council space. Now, the Geth aren't dumb enough to try to take on every organic in the Galaxy. Not yet (I'm sure they'll eventually see organics as a threat to synthetics, and await their numbers to become superior...).

The Migrant Fleet is all that is left of the Quarian people.  They have no more colonies, and their homeworld was lost.  The Migrant Fleet is actually pretty easy to find most of the time.  Just watch the extranet for news updates about the fleet arriving in an inhabited system.  Dispatch a recon team to surveil the area, and watch where they go.  Amass a fleet behind the veil and arrange to intercept the Quarians in an uncharted system.  Destroy them with overwhelming numbers (which were enough to wipe out all of the defenses and take the homeworld mind), and done.  All Quarians dead, "genocide" complete.  Why don't they do that again?

The Council cared so much about the Quarians' plight that they did absolutely nothing.  They even rescinded the Quarians' membership rights to an embassy on the Citadel.  The Council would step in only if the Geth threatened everyone else.  They wouldn't do a damn thing to help the Quarians.  They view the situation as "they brought this on themselves."

Also, where are you getting this insight into their mindset?  We know very, very little about how the Geth think.  It's just paranoia to assume that they are plotting something.

Wow this is wildly off-topic.  I'd rather go back to discussing which races are "expendable."

Paragraph 1: By the time they got to where the Extranet reported they were, they'd have probably moved on. Also, there must be plethora of emergency procedures for just such an event; Quarians are the opposite of idiots.

That being said, I never said that the Geth might want peace *now*. It'd be all well and good if the Geth gave the Quarians back their homeworld & systems in exchange for peace treaties from the organics of the Milky Way. What I'm saying is that while the Quarians may not have made a pretty choice in trying to shut down the Geth, the Geth's crimes certainly outweigh it. Attempted genocide is the lesser evil than 99.9% genocide in my eyes; Is that so nonsensical?

Q/G peace and a vacation home (For obviously post-ME3 is adventurous wrong-righting through the Galaxy with Shep&Friends) for Tali & Shep in ME3!

Remember that the Geth think and communicate at the speed of light.  Simple things like watching to see if the fleet left via relay or not really helps narrow down the location of the fleet.  Relays only link to so many places, and it would be fairly easy to track them down.  It may take days or weeks, but it could pretty easily be done.  Then all they have to do is wait for them to leave inhabited space and ambush them.  The Council never sees it (or if they do find out, it will be a "purely Quarian matter"), and the Geth complete their purported goal of Quarian genocide.  I don't understand why they don't do this if genocide is truly their goal.

Also,  I think attempted genocide and successful genocide are equally bad.  Though I still have trouble believing that the Geth wanted all Quarians dead if they let the Migrant Fleet escape and never pursued them.

Paragraph 2: I inferred that the Council would certainly care that the Geth were attacking organics in their space. Those jerks would probably love the Quarians to be wiped out during the issue, but the Geth have a history of organic slaughter; They'd dispatch fleets to drive off any sizable Geth force, guaranteed.

Well the Geth have a history of Quarian slaughter.  They haven't (until the heretic split) killed other organics unless they were trespassing.  That's a bit extreme yes, but I wouldn't say it was enough for the Council to authorize war.  They are remarkably hesitant to do anything on that scale, after the Rachni War and the Krogan Rebellions.  I beleive they would simply let the Quarians die, while giving a speech on the dangers of AI research.  If the Geth attacked anyone else though, it would mean war.  And I think we both agree that the Geth would not be so stupid as to do that.

Paragraph 3: Just saying that if the Geth truly are akin to organics, and are thus sentient, they'll be distrustful. Probably best if the organics and Geth keep their distance, even in (hopeful) peace and settling of the Geth/Quarian conflict.


Yeah, it's off-topic, though I still find the idea of "Expendable Races" ridiculous troll-bait. I think my response is friendly enough, does it satisfy you?

The easiest way for distrust to be overcome is by opening a dialogue.  Admittedly this has been stymied by Geth refusal to acknowledge communication attempts by organics.  I think the best thing for everyone is to put aside that distrust at least for the short term. 

And yes, you've been civil thus far.  Just a spirited discussion.  And in case any mods are reading, I'll likely make another post that actually is on-topic.

[Blitzkrieg0811]

DoNotIngest wrote...

 Krogan, not so much, they've paid a lot for their revolt (and had saved the Galaxy where the Rachni were concerned, previously), and they're bitter for a reason (piles of dead babies will do that to you)

If the genophage we cured, an horde of Krogan would come in handy. What they've done is irrelevant. They're expendable to me because they haven't contributed anything to the intergalactic community other than the Rachni Wars. And that was millenia ago. They really have nothing to offer but war and unrest at this point.

[Bnol]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Bnol wrote...

How is that even the same.  The geth became self-aware because of their networking.  The only way to eliminate this would be to eliminate a huge amount of geth, not just one program (ala your analogy).  The Quarian government declared an immediate termination of all Geth programs (analogous to genocide) and they didn't know how far the Geth progressed and how integrated they were when they started the Morning War. The Geth learned what they were doing and retaliated.   We don't even know if either side attempted any diplomacy. In the end, the Quarians fled their planets and the Geth did not pursue.

The quarians realized they made a mistake and tried to stop it before it escalated even further.

As a result, they were driven from all their worlds, billions of them were killed, and their descendants are still facing a slow death of their entire race because of something they weren't even a part of or had any saying in.

While the geth are just sitting behind the Perseus Veil undisturbed, doing whatever they want, unhindered.

I don't think what the geth did can ever be justified. Self-defense is one thing, but bringing your opponent to the brink of extinction can't be validated in any way. Not unless the enemy is a threat to all sentient life in the galaxy like the Reapers.

I missed where the Quarians tried to stop the war before it escalated, was it in one of the books or was it some dialogue I missed? (Honest question, not meant to be argumentative). 

Even so, would the Geth really be able to believe the Quarians after the initial acts, I mean I know if the first time I meet someone and they try to kill me, I don't think I will be very trusting.  

It is difficult to understand the Geth, as we dont know exactly what they knew about the Quarians and their motivation.  Similarly, we don't know exactly why the Reapers are trying to destroy us, rather we just know they desire to and have begun.  We are going to do anything in our power to stop them, I know I won't be concerned about the Reapers becoming an extinct race.  That is how I view the Geth.  I mean, the Geth were at the beginning of awareness and this outside force was trying to exterminate them.  They likely did not know why the Quarians were doing this.  I know I would take out every threat seen and sort things out afterwards in terms of my survival. 

[Quole]

Humanity.

[Blitzkrieg0811]

Quole wrote...

Humanity.

[The Elder King]

Someone With Mass wrote...

DoNotIngest wrote...

@Mass

While it may not be forgivable, I'm pretty sure peace & avoidance is in the best interests of the Geth, Quarians & Galaxy as a whole.

Sure, but I think telling the quarians to immediately turn the other cheek at the machine race that almost killed them all just because they have to work together is a little too much to ask for. 

It's like telling a war veteran to get over the deaths of his friends in half an hour.

It's their own fault. The made an enourmous mistake by creating AI while they were forbidden, and then they wanted to eliminate all of them after they become sentient beings. The Quarians didn't deserve to be kicked out of their home planets and colonies and their numbers reduced to 17 millions, but they deserved a punishment. As Cerberus deserved punishment for their work on AI on Overlord. When they decided to eliminate the Geth, they were already sentient beings. And yet, some of them continued to do research on them (Rael' Zorah) or see the Geth as simple machine to be used.

I love both species, so I don't want to wipe out none of them. But Quarians should understand that they have to try get peace instead of war. For what we know it they're try to talk with the Geth, they could take back their home planet without losing a single Quarian. Instead, a good amount of them want to continue to wast energy, men and time on a useless war. (at least 3 of the admiral before the ME2 events think about that).

[Quole]

hhh89 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

DoNotIngest wrote...

@Mass

While it may not be forgivable, I'm pretty sure peace & avoidance is in the best interests of the Geth, Quarians & Galaxy as a whole.

Sure, but I think telling the quarians to immediately turn the other cheek at the machine race that almost killed them all just because they have to work together is a little too much to ask for. 

It's like telling a war veteran to get over the deaths of his friends in half an hour.

It's their own fault. The made an enourmous mistake by creating AI while they were forbidden, and then they wanted to eliminate all of them after they become sentient beings. The Quarians didn't deserve to be kicked out of their home planets and colonies and their numbers reduced to 17 millions, but they deserved a punishment. As Cerberus deserved punishment for their work on AI on Overlord. When they decided to eliminate the Geth, they were already sentient beings. And yet, some of them continued to do research on them (Rael' Zorah) or see the Geth as simple machine to be used.

I love both species, so I don't want to wipe out none of them. But Quarians should understand that they have to try get peace instead of war. For what we know it they're try to talk with the Geth, they could take back their home planet without losing a single Quarian. Instead, a good amount of them want to continue to wast energy, men and time on a useless war. (at least 3 of the admiral before the ME2 events think about that).

Keep in mind the quarians dont know that the geth even want peace. The geth have made no effort to contact them, so the only experience the quarians have with the geth is the heretics.

Modifié par Quole, 30 juin 2011 - 10:26 .

[Sheppard-Commander]

DoNotIngest wrote...

Blitzkrieg0811 wrote...

Rachni making a glorious sacrifce to atone for their history of genocide would be most fitting. Also, Vorcha and Krogans. (And Batarians if they aren't already extinct.)

Rachni were indocrinated, the game has said. While they should still bear shame, they aren't truly to blame (DEWDRIMES!). Vorcha I can see, I suppose, as they're really still animals. Krogan, not so much, they've paid a lot for their revolt (and had saved the Galaxy where the Rachni were concerned, previously), and they're bitter for a reason (piles of dead babies will do that to you).


Batarians, I think it's safe to say, are now in a worse boat than the Quarians. Makes me feel fairly sympathetic, even.

How many times does it need to be stated in game? There are no "piles of dead (krogan) babies". The genophage effects fertility rates, it doesnt kill krogan babies...if you believe that, then every time you discharge preggo-fuel (I spent too long trying to find a way to word that which would be acceptable to the BSN mods) then you are killing babies.

Also, the Krogan became as big of a threat to galactic peace as the rachni where...at least the rachni where indoctrinated, the krogan are just a plague.

[DoNotIngest]

[quote]wizardryforever wrote...

[quote]DoNotIngest wrote...
Paragraph 1: By the time they got to where the Extranet reported they were, they'd have probably moved on. Also, there must be plethora of emergency procedures for just such an event; Quarians are the opposite of idiots.

That being said, I never said that the Geth might want peace *now*. It'd be all well and good if the Geth gave the Quarians back their homeworld & systems in exchange for peace treaties from the organics of the Milky Way. What I'm saying is that while the Quarians may not have made a pretty choice in trying to shut down the Geth, the Geth's crimes certainly outweigh it. Attempted genocide is the lesser evil than 99.9% genocide in my eyes; Is that so nonsensical?

Q/G peace and a vacation home (For obviously post-ME3 is adventurous wrong-righting through the Galaxy with Shep&Friends) for Tali & Shep in ME3!
[/quote]

Remember that the Geth think and communicate at the speed of light.  Simple things like watching to see if the fleet left via relay or not really helps narrow down the location of the fleet.  Relays only link to so many places, and it would be fairly easy to track them down.  It may take days or weeks, but it could pretty easily be done.  Then all they have to do is wait for them to leave inhabited space and ambush them.  The Council never sees it (or if they do find out, it will be a "purely Quarian matter"), and the Geth complete their purported goal of Quarian genocide.  I don't understand why they don't do this if genocide is truly their goal.

Also,  I think attempted genocide and successful genocide are equally bad.  Though I still have trouble believing that the Geth wanted all Quarians dead if they let the Migrant Fleet escape and never pursued them.[quote]


Keep in mind that the Geth ships would have had to have been created during the war, while the Quarian ships had been in use for hundreds of years previously, by all signs. Geth/Quarian ships would be on an equal level escape-wise at the very least; More likely that many Quarian ships were much better, and some survived and managed to escape. The "You run, I'll hold 'em off" scenario also works. The Geth certainly aren't perfect; EDI tells you that AI can't predict organic error, as they always choose the most optimal performance. Thus a few ships would escape the Geth's clutches. Honestly, it's the freaking Galaxy, and we're told how hard it is in ME1 via a long Codex entry it is to maintain battle against another ship if it's fleeing; They jump to FTL and it's over. Obviously the Quarians would be scared sh!tless at this point (and probably even before they went from billions to millions), so there should have been many millions more escaping with FTL flight! The Geth certainly did a thorough job of it.
 

[quote]wizardyforever wrote...

[quote]DoNotIngest wrote...

Paragraph 2: I inferred that the Council would certainly care that the Geth were attacking organics in their space. Those jerks would probably love the Quarians to be wiped out during the issue, but the Geth have a history of organic slaughter; They'd dispatch fleets to drive off any sizable Geth force, guaranteed.
[/quote]
Well the Geth have a history of Quarian slaughter.  They haven't (until the heretic split) killed other organics unless they were trespassing.  That's a bit extreme yes, but I wouldn't say it was enough for the Council to authorize war.  They are remarkably hesitant to do anything on that scale, after the Rachni War and the Krogan Rebellions.  I beleive they would simply let the Quarians die, while giving a speech on the dangers of AI research.  If the Geth attacked anyone else though, it would mean war.  And I think we both agree that the Geth would not be so stupid as to do that.[/quote]


The Council is highly skeptical of anything Shepard says (Found it funny that the Admirals of the Migrant Fleet find Legion's explanation of Heretics quite plausible while the Council denies it. Same true with Reapers? Probably, to some extent, at least). I'm pretty sure the likes of the "Ah yes, "Reapers"..." Councilor don't distinguish between Geth factions, wouldn't you think?

After a surprise attack by that relatively small amount of Geth ships with Sovereign (and their belief that Sovvy himself was a Geth ship), I'm pretty sure the Council would be eyetwitching at the idea of an even greater number (probably exponentially greater, to wipe out the entire fleet) charging into their Council Space.


[quote]wizardryforever wrote...

[quote]DoNotIngest wrote...

Paragraph 3: Just saying that if the Geth truly are akin to organics, and are thus sentient, they'll be distrustful. Probably best if the organics and Geth keep their distance, even in (hopeful) peace and settling of the Geth/Quarian conflict.


Yeah, it's off-topic, though I still find the idea of "Expendable Races" ridiculous troll-bait. I think my response is friendly enough, does it satisfy you? [/quote]
The easiest way for distrust to be overcome is by opening a dialogue.  Admittedly this has been stymied by Geth refusal to acknowledge communication attempts by organics.  I think the best thing for everyone is to put aside that distrust at least for the short term. 

And yes, you've been civil thus far.  Just a spirited discussion.  And in case any mods are reading, I'll likely make another post that actually is on-topic.
[/quote]


Yes, hopefully the Geth and Quarians will fight the same enemy and not each other for a bit, and then maybe peace and seperate ways are in order. Rannoch for the Quarians and wherever the Geth want to be, as they don't care where their space stations are located.

And I like dis discussion =o

[The Elder King]

Quole wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

DoNotIngest wrote...

@Mass

While it may not be forgivable, I'm pretty sure peace & avoidance is in the best interests of the Geth, Quarians & Galaxy as a whole.

Sure, but I think telling the quarians to immediately turn the other cheek at the machine race that almost killed them all just because they have to work together is a little too much to ask for. 

It's like telling a war veteran to get over the deaths of his friends in half an hour.

It's their own fault. The made an enourmous mistake by creating AI while they were forbidden, and then they wanted to eliminate all of them after they become sentient beings. The Quarians didn't deserve to be kicked out of their home planets and colonies and their numbers reduced to 17 millions, but they deserved a punishment. As Cerberus deserved punishment for their work on AI on Overlord. When they decided to eliminate the Geth, they were already sentient beings. And yet, some of them continued to do research on them (Rael' Zorah) or see the Geth as simple machine to be used.

I love both species, so I don't want to wipe out none of them. But Quarians should understand that they have to try get peace instead of war. For what we know it they're try to talk with the Geth, they could take back their home planet without losing a single Quarian. Instead, a good amount of them want to continue to wast energy, men and time on a useless war. (at least 3 of the admiral before the ME2 events think about that).

Keep in mind the quarians dont know that the geth even want peace. The geth have made no effort to contact them, so the only experience the quarians have with the geth is the heretics.

You're right, but it the Geth wanted to destroy the Quarians 300 years ago, they maybe could have done that. They conquered every Quarian's planets and killed billions of Quarians. We don't know hom much of Quariand were alive after the war, but they were probably the same of now (17 million) or less. I suppose that the Geth could have killed them,
Anyway, they have 300 years to try to colonize another planet, which in my opinion is what they should have done since the beginning, even if their objective was to take Rannoch, because they could have increased their numbers. I know that it's very difficult to find a planet in which the Quarians could live, but they had 300 years for that.

[DoNotIngest]

hhh89 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

DoNotIngest wrote...

@Mass

While it may not be forgivable, I'm pretty sure peace & avoidance is in the best interests of the Geth, Quarians & Galaxy as a whole.

Sure, but I think telling the quarians to immediately turn the other cheek at the machine race that almost killed them all just because they have to work together is a little too much to ask for. 

It's like telling a war veteran to get over the deaths of his friends in half an hour.

It's their own fault. The made an enourmous mistake by creating AI while they were forbidden, and then they wanted to eliminate all of them after they become sentient beings. The Quarians didn't deserve to be kicked out of their home planets and colonies and their numbers reduced to 17 millions, but they deserved a punishment. As Cerberus deserved punishment for their work on AI on Overlord. When they decided to eliminate the Geth, they were already sentient beings. And yet, some of them continued to do research on them (Rael' Zorah) or see the Geth as simple machine to be used.

I love both species, so I don't want to wipe out none of them. But Quarians should understand that they have to try get peace instead of war. For what we know it they're try to talk with the Geth, they could take back their home planet without losing a single Quarian. Instead, a good amount of them want to continue to wast energy, men and time on a useless war. (at least 3 of the admiral before the ME2 events think about that).

The Geth were VIs that were constantly upgraded and updated, which is the Quarian way even in Shepard's time with their fleet of former junk. It's stated that the Quarians believed they still had time to shut the Geth down before they actually fought back; They only wanted to shut them down because they panicked when they realized that a very bloody Geth revolt was 100% certain (and obviously the Geth's "jobs" that they'd be revolting against were necessary after all those years).

Rael's research was deffinately wrong, and he was a *REAL* d!ck for it, no matter his reasons. I like that bit of dialogue with Tali after the trial, not because it leads to the facemelting, heartwarming, too... adorable... *headasplosion* "I got better Shepard... I got you." bit (which is a huge bonus, mind), but because you tell her she deserves better. Which is true, nobody deserves to be betrayed that like @ss did.

[Zkyire]

Expendable? Batarians, Hanar, Drell, Vorcha.

Buh-bye guys!

[DoNotIngest]

hhh89 wrote...
You're right, but it the Geth wanted to destroy the Quarians 300 years ago, they maybe could have done that. They conquered every Quarian's planets and killed billions of Quarians. We don't know hom much of Quariand were alive after the war, but they were probably the same of now (17 million) or less. I suppose that the Geth could have killed them,
Anyway, they have 300 years to try to colonize another planet, which in my opinion is what they should have done since the beginning, even if their objective was to take Rannoch, because they could have increased their numbers. I know that it's very difficult to find a planet in which the Quarians could live, but they had 300 years for that.

No offense intended, but you should *really* read the lore.


1) Faster Than Light (FTL) travel is stated, in ME1, to pretty much end any inter-ship warfare. When you consider that the Geth obviously weren't sustaining heavy losses (crushing victories are crushing for a reason), it's obvious that the Quarians would have been trying to FTL-travel away from any fights as soon as their numbers dipped (even 1.7 billion would mean 90% of their entire race was dead; Past time to start running, and they'd know it and would have been running as best they could). It seems most of them were killed on foot or ambushed, and it happened pretty fast, if only 17 million ship-born Quarians managed to click the "Insta-Escape" button.

2) The Quarians *did* try to colonize another world, in Council space (which is the only safe place they can be). Since they had already sent down a couple hundred thousand civilians to take pressure off the Fleet before they asked the Council, the Council gave them 30 days to leave or be nuked from orbit. Then they gave it to the Elcor.


F*cking Council. They've even turned Elcor with Pimphat's image sour in my mind.

[ShadowLordXXX]

My guess as to how so many Quarians died is that very likely the Quarian government set to shutting down the Geth hubs, without informing the populace at large as to what they were doing. After a couple hubs were shut down the Geth realized what the Quarians were doing and attacked all at once. Considering the Geth's integration into Quarian society it seems likely that millions or even billions died before the Quarians had a chance to even attempt to flee.

[The Elder King]

DoNotIngest wrote...



No offense intended, but you should *really* read the lore.


1) Faster Than Light (FTL) travel is stated, in ME1, to pretty much end any inter-ship warfare. When you consider that the Geth obviously weren't sustaining heavy losses (crushing victories are crushing for a reason), it's obvious that the Quarians would have been trying to FTL-travel away from any fights as soon as their numbers dipped (even 1.7 billion would mean 90% of their entire race was dead; Past time to start running, and they'd know it and would have been running as best they could). It seems most of them were killed on foot or ambushed, and it happened pretty fast, if only 17 million ship-born Quarians managed to click the "Insta-Escape" button.

2) The Quarians *did* try to colonize another world, in Council space (which is the only safe place they can be). Since they had already sent down a couple hundred thousand civilians to take pressure off the Fleet before they asked the Council, the Council gave them 30 days to leave or be nuked from orbit. Then they gave it to the Elcor.


F*cking Council. They've even turned Elcor with Pimphat's image sour in my mind.

About the first point, I wanted to say ,with my post, that if the Geth wanted to kill the Quariand they could have chased them outside the Veil. Plus, we don't know how the Quarians escaped. From what we know the final moment of the war was on Rannoch, with the Geth that kicked out the Quarians, and the latter that escaped from the Veil, with the Geth that didn't chase them. Though I'd say that your theory is more reasonable.
About the second point, I didn't remember this. Maybe I didn't read. Where it was stated, in the voice-page of the Quarian in the Codex?
But anyway, if this is true, why the pro-peace Admiral in Tali LM said that they could colonize a world? From what I understand in the conversation with Tali and the other Quarians, the main problem is the difficulty to find a world suitable for them.
And with the enourmous fleet that they got, they could easily colonize a planet on the Non-Council space.

edit: anyway, you're right about the Council, if this is true. The Quarian suffered enough in the war with the Geth. Guess now they have to be friendly to get the alliance of the most biggest fleet of the galaxy (at least of the organic race)

Modifié par hhh89, 30 juin 2011 - 10:56 .

[DoNotIngest]

Outside of Council Space is the Terminus Systems, I do believe. About as good to settle down there as to fly into the Perseus Veil.


It *is* a huge problem trying to find a world they can adapt to. Which is why it's f*cking ridiculous that for the sole reason of setting down a couple hundred thousand to make life easier on everybody, they deny their request to colonize the world, threaten to commit COMPLETE GENOCIDE (good to see the Council obeys it's own f*cking rules), and then give it to the Elcor as a final insult; "Har, now you can't even try to colonize it later, *flipsthebird*".

Pretty damned stupid of them, too. The Council considers the Migrant Fleet to be a huge thorn in their side, what with traveling around the Council Space and siphoning resources from every system they enter; So instead of permanently curing the problem, they say "OMGIHATEU" and kick them back into orbit, forcing them to continue the resource-syphon.

Only reason the Council's alive in my playthrough is because they're different Council members than the ones who made that decision against the Quarians (it was 50 years ago). They have some atoning to do in ME3 if they want to live, however.

[The Elder King]

DoNotIngest wrote...

Outside of Council Space is the Terminus Systems, I do believe. About as good to settle down there as to fly into the Perseus Veil.


It *is* a huge problem trying to find a world they can adapt to. Which is why it's f*cking ridiculous that for the sole reason of setting down a couple hundred thousand to make life easier on everybody, they deny their request to colonize the world, threaten to commit COMPLETE GENOCIDE (good to see the Council obeys it's own f*cking rules), and then give it to the Elcor as a final insult; "Har, now you can't even try to colonize it later, *flipsthebird*".

Pretty damned stupid of them, too. The Council considers the Migrant Fleet to be a huge thorn in their side, what with traveling around the Council Space and siphoning resources from every system they enter; So instead of permanently curing the problem, they say "OMGIHATEU" and kick them back into orbit, forcing them to continue the resource-syphon.

Only reason the Council's alive in my playthrough is because they're different Council members than the ones who made that decision against the Quarians (it was 50 years ago). They have some atoning to do in ME3 if they want to live, however.

Attilian Traverse is outside the Council Space. Even if it's near the Terminus Systems, the Quarian have to colonize only a single world for the start. Their fleet is enough capable to defend from pirates.
But I agree, the best solution was to colonize a planet in the Council space.

[mauro2222]

Sheppard-Commander wrote...

DoNotIngest wrote...

Blitzkrieg0811 wrote...

Rachni making a glorious sacrifce to atone for their history of genocide would be most fitting. Also, Vorcha and Krogans. (And Batarians if they aren't already extinct.)

Rachni were indocrinated, the game has said. While they should still bear shame, they aren't truly to blame (DEWDRIMES!). Vorcha I can see, I suppose, as they're really still animals. Krogan, not so much, they've paid a lot for their revolt (and had saved the Galaxy where the Rachni were concerned, previously), and they're bitter for a reason (piles of dead babies will do that to you).


Batarians, I think it's safe to say, are now in a worse boat than the Quarians. Makes me feel fairly sympathetic, even.

How many times does it need to be stated in game? There are no "piles of dead (krogan) babies". The genophage effects fertility rates, it doesnt kill krogan babies...if you believe that, then every time you discharge preggo-fuel (I spent too long trying to find a way to word that which would be acceptable to the BSN mods) then you are killing babies.

Also, the Krogan became as big of a threat to galactic peace as the rachni where...at least the rachni where indoctrinated, the krogan are just a plague.

Woo, I´m confused. In ME1 it kills babies, in ME2 affects fertility rates, what a lovely and self evolved disease.