46 réponses à ce sujet

[CerebraLArsenaL]

@ Lumikki

Because at times, like I pointed out in Sylvius' Aiming thread, aim assist is useful. The system just needs improvement is all

[CaolIla]

sp0ck 06 wrote...

I think the real issue here is the horrible auto aim. It just is not good. The problem the OP descibes happens because the player needs to fight the game's "help" to maintain focus on a target.

You are right, that's essentially the root of all that evil, especially because you have to maintain the focus on the target while using powers. I don't mind to not be focused on an enemy while I'm shooting but I HAVE to use it while I use powers. And the only way to resolve this without making the aim assistance "smart" in some cases and working in others is to dedicate a button.
I would prefer that they could make it happen and the Aim Assist just works awesome but if it'll work like in ME2 then the option to use a button to lock the aim assist on a target would be worth a try I guess.

I don't think this problem is gamebreaker in ME2. but it happens and while I tried to beat project rho on insanity as an adept and needed more than 20 tries, it happend often enough to make me realize what might help.

[HTTP 404]

CaolIla wrote...

HTTP 404 wrote...

CerebraLArsenaL wrote...

HTTP 404 wrote...

I don't really have an issue with aiming...the game already pauses when you bring up the power wheel to improve aim with powers.

Try doing it w/o Power Wheel

i do, it isn't that hard for me.  maybe one out of 100 powers are misfired. even then, I just wait 2 or 5 seconds to fire it again. no big deal

Im not against the idea, its just a non-issue for me.  if bioware implements something like this, then we should be able to toggle it off.

Like a button that you have to press maybe? thanks for reading the posts and commenting while keeping in mind what this thread is about. 

just putting in my 2 cents. 

wasnt disagreeing with you, its just isn't that big of a deal. jerkface

Modifié par HTTP 404, 30 juin 2011 - 06:57 .

[Bnol]

CaolIla wrote...

Legion of Grunt wrote...

CaolIla wrote...

And one thing that really disturbs me: I asked for a button, and it doesn't has to be a big red button with "DON'T PRESS BUTTON" written on or above it.
Simply don't press it and your world will still keep on turning.
I would appreciate a function like a described, because it would help me. And I need help.

It's not exactly that simple, aside from the PC version pretty much every button is used...

the only way it would work for consoles is if it was an on/off thing in the settings like with aim-assist or squad power usage.

I see your problem, but read my first post, I can't really comment on Console Version. I've heard it's pretty much impossible to play without pausing, but I don't know if that's true and if it's true - like I said before - it pretty much would solve the problem playing with pause.

It really depends on what class you play and how you play, For the combat oriented classes you don't have enough (worthwhile) powers to really need to pause, while the tech/biotic focused classes you do.  I honestly would be fine with it if that button (which could replace the holster weapon, or be the tap of select and holster be the hold) was limited to casual/normal.  As soon as that button is available for Hardcore/Insanity then the game has to be balanced around it.  You can't expect players to just not use a tool that you give them. 

[CerebraLArsenaL]

Explain the balancing issue w/target lock, please

[Shinji2787]

I don't think I've ever experienced this problem... Though I understand where you're coming from, having a specific biotic lock target would make things a little easier in regards to firing biotic/tech powers around cover. I think its a feature that shouldn't be in the game in general though, I think it would actually make combat slower due to having to take time to look from target to target and then lock the target and then go back to shooting. If the issue was the game randomly changing which target your biotic/tech locked onto in the first place, chances are you'll run into similar situations when trying to "lock on" to a target. In which case you're probably still have to bring up the wheel to target who you want to "lock on". I usually play Vanguard on Insanity either I never really had the targeting not locking thing happen or its been such a minuscule thing that it hasn't negatively affected my game experience... Just my 2cents.

[Bnol]

CerebraLArsenaL wrote...

Explain the balancing issue w/target lock, please

The only time you really need a target-lock feature is if you are shooting powers around corners.  At other times you can get around the issue with using the pause when the powers are brought up.  While some players don't like using this pause, it isn't a balance issue because it is still available to them.  Shooting powers around cover takes a bit of skill and practice, it also has a failure rate from either moving too far from the enemy or another enemy moving in and being targeted.  Removing that skill and failure rate makes the game easier.  Thus other areas of the game need to be made more difficult to compensate, or the game is just that much easier.

[Paul Sedgmore]

Legion of Grunt wrote...

Bnol wrote...

CaolIla wrote...

Legion of Grunt wrote...

CaolIla wrote...

And one thing that really disturbs me: I asked for a button, and it doesn't has to be a big red button with "DON'T PRESS BUTTON" written on or above it.
Simply don't press it and your world will still keep on turning.
I would appreciate a function like a described, because it would help me. And I need help.

It's not exactly that simple, aside from the PC version pretty much every button is used...

the only way it would work for consoles is if it was an on/off thing in the settings like with aim-assist or squad power usage.

I see your problem, but read my first post, I can't really comment on Console Version. I've heard it's pretty much impossible to play without pausing, but I don't know if that's true and if it's true - like I said before - it pretty much would solve the problem playing with pause.

It really depends on what class you play and how you play, For the combat oriented classes you don't have enough (worthwhile) powers to really need to pause, while the tech/biotic focused classes you do.  I honestly would be fine with it if that button (which could replace the holster weapon, or be the tap of select and holster be the hold) was limited to casual/normal.  As soon as that button is available for Hardcore/Insanity then the game has to be balanced around it.  You can't expect players to just not use a tool that you give them. 

well the holster button from ME2 on the Xbox360 (back button) was the grenade button from ME1 and seeing as grenades are coming back it'll probably be used.

Considering the LS and RS buttons both bring up the radar/map one of these could be used for lock-on

[Bnol]

Legion of Grunt wrote...

Bnol wrote...

It really depends on what class you play and how you play, For the combat oriented classes you don't have enough (worthwhile) powers to really need to pause, while the tech/biotic focused classes you do.  I honestly would be fine with it if that button (which could replace the holster weapon, or be the tap of select and holster be the hold) was limited to casual/normal.  As soon as that button is available for Hardcore/Insanity then the game has to be balanced around it.  You can't expect players to just not use a tool that you give them. 

well the holster button from ME2 on the Xbox360 (back button) was the grenade button from ME1 and seeing as grenades are coming back it'll probably be used.

Not necessarily, since not all classes are getting grenades, other classes are going to get skills that are off the power gcd and are instead on a limited use like grenades.  Those powers might be mappable like other powers, or at least I hope they are because I really do not like select as a power button and I think that was at least partially why I disliked grenades, well that and the fact that they were just floating disks. 

[Repearized Miranda]

I don't see a problem because often times the enemy you aren't aiming towards is the one that takes you out. j/k

Seriously, it might help if you tell your teammates to attack that target (D-pad up on consoles) while you focus on the one that you want to aim at.

ie: Any bands of enemies that utilize the "Divide and Conquer" technique - about every one of them.

Often, I'd get capped from the side because I (not the targeting reticle) was focueds on the guy/girl in front of me. Yet, if I watch and see one of them move to the side, I just turn the camera and tell my teammates to attack that target then revert to whom I was focused on earlier.

The target stays where it's targeted - no matter how many targets are there. Notice, it can only focus on one individual - not a group. Therefore, if you get a group "targeted" (ie: three or more Husks/LOKIs), use a power to obliterate them all. ("Bowling" with Jack is very effective and fun to watch or "Group Shock Therapy" with Miranda, Garrus or Mordin. If you're a Sentinel, there's the "(Purposefully Get) Hit and Run" strategy with the TA.)

Modifié par Repearized Miranda, 30 juin 2011 - 07:53 .

[nhsk]

Please for the love of god no, it would ruin the precious shooter experience. Or at least give an option of turning it completely off so I don't accidently turn it on in a firefight, worst thing ever. Track your targets with your eyes.

[CerebraLArsenaL]

Bnol wrote...

CerebraLArsenaL wrote...

Explain the balancing issue w/target lock, please

The only time you really need a target-lock feature is if you are shooting powers around corners.  At other times you can get around the issue with using the pause when the powers are brought up.  While some players don't like using this pause, it isn't a balance issue because it is still available to them.  Shooting powers around cover takes a bit of skill and practice, it also has a failure rate from either moving too far from the enemy or another enemy moving in and being targeted.  Removing that skill and failure rate makes the game easier.  Thus other areas of the game need to be made more difficult to compensate, or the game is just that much easier.

My opinion (cue meme picture) but I think the decrease in difficulty would be negligible, and I also believe a systems failure to operate as intended(or if said failure is intended as you imply) is a backhanded and artificial way of achieving difficulty

[Brian Mills]

We actually experimented with a target lock system early on for ME1; unfortunately, it didn't play very well, with a lot of issues where it would remain locked when you didn't want it to, and so forth, resulting in it feeling like it was fighting the player's controls. I would be suprised if we re-added a similar system back in for ME3 - some changes to autoaim thresholds might be possible, but I wouldn't expect much beyond that.

[Bnol]

CerebraLArsenaL wrote...

Bnol wrote...

CerebraLArsenaL wrote...

Explain the balancing issue w/target lock, please

The only time you really need a target-lock feature is if you are shooting powers around corners.  At other times you can get around the issue with using the pause when the powers are brought up.  While some players don't like using this pause, it isn't a balance issue because it is still available to them.  Shooting powers around cover takes a bit of skill and practice, it also has a failure rate from either moving too far from the enemy or another enemy moving in and being targeted.  Removing that skill and failure rate makes the game easier.  Thus other areas of the game need to be made more difficult to compensate, or the game is just that much easier.

My opinion (cue meme picture) but I think the decrease in difficulty would be negligible, and I also believe a systems failure to operate as intended(or if said failure is intended as you imply) is a backhanded and artificial way of achieving difficulty

Being able to fire around cover while targeting a different location and then being able to immediately fire your weapon at the different location would lower the difficulty more than a negligible amount.  The failure rate is dependent on the player, the system operates consistently enough to make tactical decisions on when you should risk using the ability in such a way or not. Combat does not always go as planned, and part of the difficulty is adapting.  There will always be limits to various systems and those limits will be a part of the difficulty of the game, so I don't get how that is backhanded or artificial. 

[CerebraLArsenaL]

See your pt. now, mine was that to randomly make the player fail when the system is player dependent is artificial

[Bnol]

CerebraLArsenaL wrote...

See your pt. now, mine was that to randomly make the player fail when the system is player dependent is artificial

Yeah, I understand and agree if the system really was that random.  I have not really experienced it being that random, but that also might be because I play on a console and don't deal with mouse sensitivity.  I fail my fair share of shots around cover b/c of targeting a different enemy and wouldn't want to lose that aspect of gameplay, because it forces me to adjust strategy.  I know I could disable it, but I always try to use all the tools at my disposal.  Obvious in ME2 it doesn't matter that much as the enemy doesn't really punish you that much for failure.  But if the AI is really more advanced failure will force more decisions and adaptation.

[CaolIla]

Bnol wrote...

CerebraLArsenaL wrote...

Bnol wrote...

CerebraLArsenaL wrote...

Explain the balancing issue w/target lock, please

The only time you really need a target-lock feature is if you are shooting powers around corners.  At other times you can get around the issue with using the pause when the powers are brought up.  While some players don't like using this pause, it isn't a balance issue because it is still available to them.  Shooting powers around cover takes a bit of skill and practice, it also has a failure rate from either moving too far from the enemy or another enemy moving in and being targeted.  Removing that skill and failure rate makes the game easier.  Thus other areas of the game need to be made more difficult to compensate, or the game is just that much easier.

My opinion (cue meme picture) but I think the decrease in difficulty would be negligible, and I also believe a systems failure to operate as intended(or if said failure is intended as you imply) is a backhanded and artificial way of achieving difficulty

Being able to fire around cover while targeting a different location and then being able to immediately fire your weapon at the different location would lower the difficulty more than a negligible amount.  The failure rate is dependent on the player, the system operates consistently enough to make tactical decisions on when you should risk using the ability in such a way or not. Combat does not always go as planned, and part of the difficulty is adapting.  There will always be limits to various systems and those limits will be a part of the difficulty of the game, so I don't get how that is backhanded or artificial.  

That's actually a valid point so I think a duration would make it better, you don't need much time to negate those sporadically occuring changes of the aimfocus.  Maybe 0.2 seconds? It's just that I want to be sure that I hit the target I'm aiming at, and I don't hit the guy that just ran into the auto aim when I pressed the button for my power.
I would just bind it to an additional mouse button (that are not bindable in ME2, but I think I read something about more options to bind keys, so I'm hoping for that) and I think it should work without having a big impact on gameplay.

And since I talk for the PC Version and my demands only, since I don't know what others think and especially what the game is like on the console: You have the ability to NOT assign a key to an action. 
If they don't bind it in the beginning nobody has to use it and will never do it if he doesn't intend to, not even by accident.
That's an option, right?

And just that everyone can be sure that he's better than me I'll add a signature "I use the lock on function", so everyone knows I'm cheap. 

And just to repeat myself: I don't want the game easy, that's why I play on insanity and without pauses. I don't want my powers to draw circles and do 90° turns midair, I'm fine with the limitations of biotic powers and their ability to fly around cover. That shouldn't be changed, and a lock on as I imagine it could deliver that.

And to my friend with the fingertips of a poet: Of course I'm a jerkface, but please back to topic.

[Skirata129]

I'd prefer them to have a "turn auto targeting assist completely off" button. it was so annoying to snipe at a moving target in Adrenaline rush it isn't even funny.

[EternalPink]

I've only really noticed this when the target boxes overlap myself and its noticeable when you have one mob you've just taken the armor off and want to use a power on but because the other mobs still have armor it won't let you use the power.

Better/smaller targetting boxes would solve it

[Bnol]

CaolIla wrote...

Bnol wrote...

Being able to fire around cover while targeting a different location and then being able to immediately fire your weapon at the different location would lower the difficulty more than a negligible amount.  The failure rate is dependent on the player, the system operates consistently enough to make tactical decisions on when you should risk using the ability in such a way or not. Combat does not always go as planned, and part of the difficulty is adapting.  There will always be limits to various systems and those limits will be a part of the difficulty of the game, so I don't get how that is backhanded or artificial.  

That's actually a valid point so I think a duration would make it better, you don't need much time to negate those sporadically occuring changes of the aimfocus.  Maybe 0.2 seconds? It's just that I want to be sure that I hit the target I'm aiming at, and I don't hit the guy that just ran into the auto aim when I pressed the button for my power.
I would just bind it to an additional mouse button (that are not bindable in ME2, but I think I read something about more options to bind keys, so I'm hoping for that) and I think it should work without having a big impact on gameplay. 

And since I talk for the PC Version and my demands only, since I don't know what others think and especially what the game is like on the console: You have the ability to NOT assign a key to an action. 
If they don't bind it in the beginning nobody has to use it and will never do it if he doesn't intend to, not even by accident.
That's an option, right?

And just that everyone can be sure that he's better than me I'll add a signature "I use the lock on function", so everyone knows I'm cheap. 

And just to repeat myself: I don't want the game easy, that's why I play on insanity and without pauses. I don't want my powers to draw circles and do 90° turns midair, I'm fine with the limitations of biotic powers and their ability to fly around cover. That shouldn't be changed, and a lock on as I imagine it could deliver that.

On the console version there is not the ability to remap all buttons, you can only map skills to the available skill buttons.  I would like for full customization of buttons on the controlled but that hasn't been in ME1 or 2 and I have not seen any info suggesting that it is in ME3.  Thus, that button would need to be assigned somewhere and available.  So the fact that the game must be designed for both consol and PC means that both need to be taken into account.

A 0.2 second lock wouldn't do much to reduce the difficulty, but then again the use of that is so limited that I question the need for it in the first place.  I don't see the value in spending the time to do an aim lock as you are  now suggesting.  I think better time would be spent to improve the preciseness of aim, or allow better mouse sensitivity options would be a more productive route for the overall game.  I certainly think if it is possible to toggle off the aim assist, that is also preferrable. 

Modifié par Bnol, 01 juillet 2011 - 02:37 .

[sbvera13]

VegasVance wrote...

Out of (generally) six enemies you can't keep a bead on one? Even when the game pauses itself and gives you free rotation of the camera?

The problem is that an ability, already fired, will sometimes turn and hit something else because it decided to.  Alternately, when you are depending on it locking on to what you are point at and following it, it will head straight into the wall your crosshair was pointed at when you fired.  Not always, but often enough to get under your skin.  It's inconsistent and annoying, which I believe the OP is trying to address.

Personally, I jsut snipe at things and use my squad for active powers, since they are all instant I don't have to worry about the stupid game thinking it's smarter then I am and doing something I didn't tell it to do.

Modifié par sbvera13, 01 juillet 2011 - 03:25 .