196 réponses à ce sujet

[Icy Magebane]

@whykikyouwhy - I'll admit that it's at least somewhat plausible that Isabela did in fact outwit the Arishok and his men on the way back to Par Vollen. Guarded or not, I'm willing to believe that it could have happened the way you suggest. But given some other situations, like Morrigan falling through the Eluvian (sp?), I can't discount the possibility that some things happen so that characters can come back later without things getting messy.

I think it might have been possible to kill Oghren in DA:O but he shows up anyway in DA:A? That kind of thing... I'm glad they covered their bases this time, because that type of situation is just ridiculous.

[Ryzaki]

I'd do it...but it seems kind of lame.
I give the Arishok the book and the girl and then become Champion? Dude what?

[Fidget6]

Icy Magebane wrote...
I think it might have been possible to kill Oghren in DA:O but he shows up anyway in DA:A? That kind of thing... I'm glad they covered their bases this time, because that type of situation is just ridiculous.

Yep, regardless of whether or not you kill Oghren it gets retconned. Also, you can keep Oghren alive but make him absolutely hate you and leave and that also would get retconned as if it never happened in Awakenings. Just like if Leliana dies it gets retconned in DA2. At least they kept Zevran or Alistair dead.......

[whykikyouwhy]

Ryzaki wrote...

I'd do it...but it seems kind of lame.
I give the Arishok the book and the girl and then become Champion? Dude what?

Ok...this I must applaud.

[Icy Magebane]

Ryzaki wrote...

I'd do it...but it seems kind of lame.
I give the Arishok the book and the girl and then become Champion? Dude what?

lol... (suddenly feels less heroic)

[MinotaurWarrior]

I'm still upset that you can't just execute her when you find out what she did.

[Fidget6]

Icy Magebane wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

I'd do it...but it seems kind of lame.
I give the Arishok the book and the girl and then become Champion? Dude what?

lol... (suddenly feels less heroic)

Haha, it sure did. The scene plays out the same once Isabela's captured. Meredith comes in and says, "It's over?" and then everyone applauds. lawl.

[Fidget6]

MinotaurWarrior wrote...

I'm still upset that you can't just execute her when you find out what she did.

There's that pesky plot armor again. Isabela's gonna be the Liara of this series.

[Ryzaki]

Fidget6 wrote...

Icy Magebane wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

I'd do it...but it seems kind of lame.
I give the Arishok the book and the girl and then become Champion? Dude what?

lol... (suddenly feels less heroic)

Haha, it sure did. The scene plays out the same once Isabela's captured. Meredith comes in and says, "It's over?" and then everyone applauds. lawl.

Exactly it's so weird. Like wow. Turning over one of my companions and letting the Qunari walkaway scot free. Totally should be made champion for that. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 01 juillet 2011 - 04:08 .

[Rifneno]

Fidget6 wrote...

MinotaurWarrior wrote...

I'm still upset that you can't just execute her when you find out what she did.

There's that pesky plot armor again. Isabela's gonna be the Liara of this series.

Is that supposed to be a bad thing?

[Ryzaki]

Fidget6 wrote...

MinotaurWarrior wrote...

I'm still upset that you can't just execute her when you find out what she did.

There's that pesky plot armor again. Isabela's gonna be the Liara of this series.

 

So her character will be completely warped in the next game? And she'll be shoved down Shep's throat with "as smart as she was beautiful." while the other LIs get rather bleh descriptions? Fabulous. Can't wait. <_<

[TEWR]

You know, I might be the only person who dislikes killing companions off at all.

[Plaintiff]

The Qun is a vile philosophy and should be erased from history. Even if I hated Isabela I would refuse to hand her over out of spite, and after killing the Arishok I would set his precious tome on fire and ****** on the ashes before mailing them back to Par Vollen.

[Ryzaki]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

You know, I might be the only person who dislikes killing companions off at all.

I like killing em off. It's better than some of the other decisions (like selling Fenris back into slavery). That said as long as I don't have to interact with them I'll just skip them. When I *am* forced to interact and can kill them off I do so. 

[Icy Magebane]

I'm a fan of killing of companions. It's not like there aren't many of them that I would never kill, like Wrex or ... ... ... you know, I can't think of anyone outside of ME that I would/have not killed.  Maybe Oghren, but he never had any impact on me one way or another, so I guess killing him wouldn't have meant anything to me.  But anyway, I think it's fine for many reasons, especially if a companion betrays the leader. That's a no-no.

I have no problem with not being given the option to kill companions, or with people who don't want to kill them. At the very least, every game with party dynamics should allow you to fire companions you don't like, or simply avoid recruiting them. I mean, some companions I wouldn't even have the desire to kill if the game didn't force you to travel with them in the first place...

Modifié par Icy Magebane, 01 juillet 2011 - 04:19 .

[Cutlass Jack]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

You know, I might be the only person who dislikes killing companions off at all.

Nope you're not the only one. I greatly dislike it. That said, I did kill Anders, but I didn't enjoy it even slightly.

[Rifneno]

Plaintiff wrote...

The Qun is a vile philosophy and should be erased from history. Even if I hated Isabela I would refuse to hand her over out of spite, and after killing the Arishok I would set his precious tome on fire and ****** on the ashes before mailing them back to Par Vollen.

QFT.  The only good qunari is a dead qunari.

[dragonflight288]

Exactly it's so weird. Like wow. Turning over one of my companions and letting the Qunari walkaway scot free. Totally should be made champion for that. smilie

Read the Champion's armor description.

Champion's Armor

Champion: an honor unique to the Free Marches. Other terms of reverence suffer the stains of their holders, the lingering baggage of office and entitlement. But champion is not an appointment that can be sought. It cannot be owned or willed, and the process by which it is bestowed is not argued through policy or guile. It is earned with blood and sweat and leadership in times of great turmoil. Always worthy, as their deeds are of true importance, a champion is greeted not by debate, but by nods of reverence.

The title was most recently granted in Tantervale, 8:82 Blessed, on the resolution of the bloody expansion of Nevarra. Their king, emboldened by the taking of Perendale and the quick yielding of Hasmal, thought the remainder of the Free Marches as easy claim. He who became the Champion. Cade Arvale of Rivain, did what Orlais had not: He stopped a nation in its tracks. There was blood and barter, but Tantervale is still free against all odds.

There is the contradiction of the honor. Champion is not itself a sign of approval. He or she can be respected or feared, their coming dreaded as much as desired. All that is common is that they have an effect and lives are changed.

Kirkwall now adds to the history of the title, a first for the city, on this 9:34 Dragon. The Qunari are repelled by the means respected or reviled, and it remains to be seen what follows for this Hawke, the Champion of Kirkwall.

[Special_Agent_Goodwrench]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

You know, I might be the only person who dislikes killing companions off at all.

Nope you're not the only one. I greatly dislike it. That said, I did kill Anders, but I didn't enjoy it even slightly.

Add me to the club. You know, I wouldn't bat an eyelash if Bioware put on some fancy plot armor on the majority of companions. Hell, I'd be rather happy.

[Ryzaki]

....So Hawke repelled the Qunari by letting them face absolutely NO consequences?

That really deserves to be respected/feared for? Really? 

Oh plot armor bugs me so much. The fact alone that hawke never snitches on Anders and Merrill to the templars is bad enough. It'll either make them all cowards who flee from the protagonist, suspiciously always kidnapped before they can attack the protagonist or stronger than the protagonist to the point where I'll start wondering why am I playing him/her instead of the NPC. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 01 juillet 2011 - 04:50 .

[dragonflight288]

....So Hawke repelled the Qunari by letting them face absolutely NO consequences?

That really deserves to be respected/feared for? Really?

Oh plot armor bugs me so much. The fact alone that hawke never snitches on Anders and Merrill to the templars is bad enough. It'll either make them all cowards who flee from the protagonist or stronger than the protagonist to the point where I'll start wondering why am I playing him/her instead of the NPC.

No matter how Hawke handled the Qunari, the nobles perceived him/her as the one who repelled the Qunari, whether by giving them exactly what they wanted or by combat. Hawke can be feared as a person who will sacrifice anything to achieve a goal or a mighty warrior. The key thing about Champions of the Free Marches is that they ALL influence people's lives. It's not always positive, it's not always heroic, and it's never something volunteered or aspired to. It is a title given out of respect and fear by the majority of people whose lives were influenced in some way.

With the Qunari leaving, the nobles are not required to convert to the Qun or be killed, the Champion worked as the Viscount's agent, and I'm pretty sure all the nobles knew it.

[Ryzaki]

Right. Sorry that just feels weak to me.

[dragonflight288]

No offense taken. That's just my own interpretation of it as I try to make sense of the scene. Makes for a stronger argument within my own mind. lol

[CitizenThom]

DreamerM wrote...

We can give Isabella to the Arishok, even though it's very wrong.

We can sell Fenris back to Denarius, even though it's very wrong.


HOW COME WE CAN'T GIVE ANDERS TO THE TEMPLARS? We'd have much more reason to do that then to do either of those other things.

Oh, right, because then everyone would and the Act 3 finale wouldn't happen. Damn you plot contrivance! Damn youuu!

Would've been nice to have the conversation in Act 3 to say to Anders, "Whatever it is you're up to, it's clearly not good. I'm putting you out of comission before you can do any further evil..." with a fight ensuing.

Truth is, the plot contrivance doesn't require Anders to be alive. Act 3 could've really sold us on Kirkwall being an organism with it's own inertia... as much as the City is filled with individual wills, it's headed for a mage rebellion... or templars framing the mages to appear to be rebelling. For example, Anders might be killed, with the consequence that some other mage took up his purpose. Or perhaps that mage was killed earlier in the game, and the Templar from 'enemies among us' destroys the chantry leaving evidence that suggests it was done by the mages.

It would provide more branches, and yet still bring everything to the same end, in essence... even while providing the possibility for it to happen by various strings of possible futures/histories (think Leto II Atreides ha ha).

Modifié par CitizenThom, 01 juillet 2011 - 05:32 .

[MinotaurWarrior]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

You know, I might be the only person who dislikes killing companions off at all.

Companions are just characters like any others. You should be able to deal with them like you would any other charatcer.

Fidget6 wrote...

MinotaurWarrior wrote...

I'm still upset that you can't just execute her when you find out what she did.

There's that pesky plot armor again. Isabela's gonna be the Liara of this series.

Only
if it turns out Liara stole an ancient reaper relic, and refuses to
give it back to them and end the Reaping, because she's afraid of what
her highschool bully might do to her...

This is really a beserk button for me.



I also hate how you can't kill Sebastian when he tells you that he's going to run off to Starkhaven to raise an army to try to put down your mage rebellion. Hawke has killed people for far less.