196 réponses à ce sujet

[Collider]

I also hate how you can't kill Sebastian when he tells you that he's going to run off to Starkhaven to raise an army to try to put down your mage rebellion. Hawke has killed people for far less.

I agree so much.

[Uccio]

Vit246 wrote...

Nope. Will never give Isabela to the arishok. He's a hypocrite. He refused to give up two criminals, but he expects us to do the same? He spits on non-Qunari laws but expects us to obey the demands of his Qun? Screw him. I wish Hawke was allowed to interrupt the talking arishok cutscene and knife him. 

x 2. I wish I could have landed my sword in between Arishok´s horns to cut his end speech short. The guy killed countless of people invading my characters home city, beheaded the Viscount and expected to walk free with my girlfriend/companion?

[Uccio]

doublepost.

Modifié par Ukki, 01 juillet 2011 - 06:58 .

[sphinxess]

Ukki wrote...

Vit246 wrote...

Nope. Will never give Isabela to the arishok. He's a hypocrite. He refused to give up two criminals, but he expects us to do the same? He spits on non-Qunari laws but expects us to obey the demands of his Qun? Screw him. I wish Hawke was allowed to interrupt the talking arishok cutscene and knife him. 

x 2. I wish I could have landed my sword in between Arishok´s horns to cut his end speech short. The guy killed countless of people invading my characters home city, beheaded the Viscount and expected to walk free with my girlfriend/companion?

Thats why I never honor him with a duel - I want that book back so kill them all

[Fidget6]

Rifneno wrote...

Fidget6 wrote...

MinotaurWarrior wrote...

I'm still upset that you can't just execute her when you find out what she did.

There's that pesky plot armor again. Isabela's gonna be the Liara of this series.

Is that supposed to be a bad thing?

I was referring to Liara= LOTS of plot armor. Only squaddie who can't die. I personally don't see it as a bad thing because I quite like Liara, but for many it's annoying, and understandably so.

[Collider]

Fidget6 wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Fidget6 wrote...

MinotaurWarrior wrote...

I'm still upset that you can't just execute her when you find out what she did.

There's that pesky plot armor again. Isabela's gonna be the Liara of this series.

Is that supposed to be a bad thing?

I was referring to Liara= LOTS of plot armor. Only squaddie who can't die. I personally don't see it as a bad thing because I quite like Liara, but for many it's annoying, and understandably so.

Isablea having plot armor doesn't bother as me as much.
You don't need to recruit Isabela and she doesn't take center stage all of the time, unlike Liara.
As long as they don't resurrect Isabela from death or make her Bioware's pet, I think I'm alright.

[TobiTobsen]

Icy Magebane wrote...

One thing I saw a few posts up about the consequences of turning her over... Hawke doesn't actually know about Qamek and indoctrination until Fenris mentions it later on, and even then it's only in party banter when Fenris and Isabela are both present. So it's not like any of us could have known about the whole turning her into a mindless zombie thing. To me, that seems cruel, but I never consider this when turning her in. As I said, it's based on knowledge you don't have, and if you do have it, then you also know she's going to escape. So it doesn't factor in either way...

We, and Hawke, actually do know that she, at least, will be forcefully indoctrinated. That's how the Qunari work and the Codex states it a couple of times. The one i can remember without searching for it is "The History of Kirkwall Chapter Three". It mentiones the forcefull indoctrination of Children who were taken away from their families and the brutal labour camps for everybody who didn't comply. Fenris only acknowledges that this is a fact and not only chantry propaganda against the Qunari.

Modifié par TobiTobsen, 01 juillet 2011 - 09:53 .

[Icy Magebane]

@TobiTobsen - I guess my Hawkes weren't big readers. The first I heard of this was from Fenris. Fair enough...

But did they actually mention Qamek in the codex? Because that's the thing I have a problem with... I don't mind them forcing people to work in a labor camp if you won't join their religion, because that's fairly common with prisoners. It's the part where they turn you into a brain-dead zombie that I find unsettling...

Modifié par Icy Magebane, 01 juillet 2011 - 11:26 .

[Big I]

Icy Magebane wrote...

@TobiTobsen - I guess my Hawkes weren't big readers. The first I heard of this was from Fenris. Fair enough...

But did they actually mention Qamek in the codex? Because that's the thing I have a problem with... I don't mind them forcing people to work in a labor camp if you won't join their religion, because that's fairly common with prisoners. It's the part where they turn you into a brain-dead zombie that I find unsettling...

Qamek isn't mentioned. We also don't know what it is, only what it does. It could be anything from Tranquility to blood magic.

[TobiTobsen]

LookingGlass93 wrote...

Icy Magebane wrote...

@TobiTobsen - I guess my Hawkes weren't big readers. The first I heard of this was from Fenris. Fair enough...

But did they actually mention Qamek in the codex? Because that's the thing I have a problem with... I don't mind them forcing people to work in a labor camp if you won't join their religion, because that's fairly common with prisoners. It's the part where they turn you into a brain-dead zombie that I find unsettling...

Qamek isn't mentioned. We also don't know what it is, only what it does. It could be anything from Tranquility to blood magic.

Yup. Qamek isn't mentioned. Would be interesting to see if that's the Qunari version of the tranquil.

[Uccio]

sphinxess wrote...

Ukki wrote...

Vit246 wrote...

Nope. Will never give Isabela to the arishok. He's a hypocrite. He refused to give up two criminals, but he expects us to do the same? He spits on non-Qunari laws but expects us to obey the demands of his Qun? Screw him. I wish Hawke was allowed to interrupt the talking arishok cutscene and knife him. 

x 2. I wish I could have landed my sword in between Arishok´s horns to cut his end speech short. The guy killed countless of people invading my characters home city, beheaded the Viscount and expected to walk free with my girlfriend/companion?

Thats why I never honor him with a duel - I want that book back so kill them all

Thats right! I tried it and there was indeed a option to have all out fight with all companions involved. I allways though that declining from the duel would mean that some of the companions would have to fight Arishok.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Vit246 wrote...

Nope. Will never give Isabela to the arishok. He's a hypocrite. He refused to give up two criminals, but he expects us to do the same? He spits on non-Qunari laws but expects us to obey the demands of his Qun? Screw him. I wish Hawke was allowed to interrupt the talking arishok cutscene and knife him. 

"Tell me, Arishok: what would you do, in my place?"

What a terrible shame that wasn't a possible dialogue option. BioWare really should allow more ironic echoing.

[Rifneno]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Vit246 wrote...

Nope. Will never give Isabela to the arishok. He's a hypocrite. He refused to give up two criminals, but he expects us to do the same? He spits on non-Qunari laws but expects us to obey the demands of his Qun? Screw him. I wish Hawke was allowed to interrupt the talking arishok cutscene and knife him. 

"Tell me, Arishok: what would you do, in my place?"

What a terrible shame that wasn't a possible dialogue option. BioWare really should allow more ironic echoing.

Oh that would have been so perfect.  I didn't think anything could match an option to refuse the Faith quest by telling Elthina, "but I cannot take sides!" yet there it is...

[dragonflight288]

I honestly don't get why there is so much hate for the Arishok. Okay, I understand people are looking at the game with modern moralities and many of the things done in the medieval ages would be considered wrong by almost all of us. But I find the Arishok and the Qunari absolutely fascinating as a culture study.

And no, I don't claim to be an expert because our characters haven't yet been to Par Vollen or Seherron and as such we have only seen the military personality of the Qunari. We haven't seen their non-combatants and how they live. We haven't seen their philosophers, their art and music (which Sten in Origins tells Leliana they have. But he's a soldier and doesn't do that stuff.)

There are a lot of things I disagree with when it comes to the Qun, like how they treat mages and the view that magic is a contagious disease that if not kept in check, can infect people around them simply by the mage talking. And the set role in the Qun with personal happiness not even considered. Those things I don't like.

"Tell me, Arishok: what would you do, in my place?"

HAHAHA. That line would be perfect.

[Wereparrot]

I have both given her to the qunari and been forced to fight the Arishok because she didn't return. And as far as handing her over goes: I don't think it is neccessarily the evil thing to do; she is a traitor both to Hawke and to Kirkwall and for this she deserves death, To keep her would definitely show her what loyalty means, but I'm not sure that in real life I'd be willing to put my life on the line for a traitor. Maybe in the future I'll fight for her, but only for gameplay purposes, and it still wouldn't sit right with me. Also, I believe that forgiving the crime does not neccessarily mean the price should not be paid, so I'm stuck between justice and loyalty to her as a party member. It's also worth noting that in real life the retention of Isabela could cause dissent.

[happy_daiz]

I've never given Isabela over to the Arishok in any of my playthroughs. The thought just makes me feel unclean...but I will admit that I've toyed with the idea. I really like the Arishok, and I wish there was some way to keep Isabela, and to not have to kill the Arishok. He's such an interesting character that I'm sad he won't be making a return in DA3 for any of my Hawkes.

Is it just me, or did anyone else start to have a pixel crush on the Arishok after a couple of playthroughs? No? Just me? OK, forget I said anything. 
 

[DarkAmaranth1966]

I did it too, on a male Hawke after sleeping with her. Yes I too wish we could give Anders to Cullen or better Meredith. Now that would be great.

[ForgeDark]

Never given her over (although I've only ever friended her enough once for her to come back) but my arguement for doing it is that you know the Qunari will leave if you do. By duelling the Arishok you are risking the whole of Kirkwall for one girl if you accept his duel rather than handing her over. Not like Isabella is innocent in the matter either, she did cause the whole problem in the first place.

[Gabey5]

she deserved to be turned over... most of the crap that happens is her fault.. a lot of people died because of her

[whykikyouwhy]

Gabey5 wrote...

she deserved to be turned over... most of the crap that happens is her fault.. a lot of people died because of her

She may have been part and party to why the Qunari were in Kirkwall, but that doesn't necessarily mean that she was responsible for every action by the Qunari. The Arishok had the choice to wait it out, to hunt the thief out and reclaim the Tome, then leave. His own disgust for how the city was run, for the people in it and how they conducted their everyday lives, compelled him to take an aggressive stance. That wasn't based on any compulsion directly caused by Isabela - I saw the sweep of Kirkwall at the end of Act 2 as a separate act from Being "denied Par Vallon."

But others may disagee.

Modifié par whykikyouwhy, 01 juillet 2011 - 09:18 .

[dragonflight288]

It wasn't Isabella's fault that Petrice constantly tried to provoke the Arishok and raise the people up against them.

[Rifneno]

dragonflight288 wrote...

I honestly don't get why there is so much hate for the Arishok. Okay, I understand people are looking at the game with modern moralities and many of the things done in the medieval ages would be considered wrong by almost all of us. But I find the Arishok and the Qunari absolutely fascinating as a culture study.

Very simple. Because the qunari don't respect other cultures. They only coexist peacefully if they feel they can't currently convert the "ignorant" by war and terrorism. They have no intention of keeping peace, Sten told us as much and the Arishok implied it ("We will return"). It's us or them, by their own decision. There can be no permanent peace. If I had the choice, I'd wipe out the qunari to a man. It is the only way to ensure future generations won't be murdered and enslaved by them.

[TEWR]

Rifneno wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

I honestly don't get why there is so much hate for the Arishok. Okay, I understand people are looking at the game with modern moralities and many of the things done in the medieval ages would be considered wrong by almost all of us. But I find the Arishok and the Qunari absolutely fascinating as a culture study.

Very simple. Because the qunari don't respect other cultures. They only coexist peacefully if they feel they can't currently convert the "ignorant" by war and terrorism. They have no intention of keeping peace, Sten told us as much and the Arishok implied it ("We will return"). It's us or them, by their own decision. There can be no permanent peace. If I had the choice, I'd wipe out the qunari to a man. It is the only way to ensure future generations won't be murdered and enslaved by them.

that's what you think. I still maintain that Sten may rise to the role of Arishok and actually enlighten the enlighteners (is that a word? ). He did say that he didn't want to meet the Warden on the battlefield when they return and this views have changed.... slightly.


And a slight change in views for a Qunari is better than none at all. Especially if his report deals with a Mage Warden, a Female Warden, or hell even a Female Mage Warden.


As for ironic comments to the Arishok, what do I blame that on? Short dev time or the Arishok being a hypocrite (even though I respect him greatly)? 

[MinotaurWarrior]

Edited for clarity.

I understand thinking that the Qunari are morally bankrupt by today's standards (they are), but the thing is, (imho) they're not bad at all by 9th century standards. As you go further and further into the past (or past-resembling fiction), you'll discover more and more horrible things. You can either look back and say, "everyone from back then was terrible, I hate them all" or you can say, "everyone from back then was terrible, but these people were slightly better than the rest."

As you said, the Qunari don't respect other cultures. Neither do the Andrastian humans or the Elves. The Qunari want to convert the "ignorant" by war, like the Andrastian humans. The elves probably would too if they had any military power. But when the Qunari discovered that they couldn't make the humans convert, they offered peace, even though they were doing well in their war effort. When the missionary efforts to the Dales weren't going well (hundreds of years ago, to be fair) things ended up much worse.

Now, the Qunari also do some really terrible things (education camps, Qamek), and it's totally cool if you still think they are the worst of the Thedasian civilizations. I disagree (I think they're the second worst), but I'm not here to convince you of that. I'm just here to point out that their fanaticism and us vs them no compromise thinking isn't unique.

Modifié par MinotaurWarrior, 02 juillet 2011 - 12:00 .

[TEWR]

All the elves want is to worship their own religion and have other elves come back to them. They wouldn't force that on the other elves, and certainly not on the humans which are exactly who they want to get away from.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 01 juillet 2011 - 11:28 .