196 réponses à ce sujet

[Tirfan]

^ I would have liked to see "use the murder knife" option with Isabela, but apparently, we can't have that, we need her to return as fan-service for the next game too I suppose, giving her to the Qunari is just the going with the least bad option..

[whykikyouwhy]

I disagree that keeping Isabela alive is "fanservice" considering that those plot points were put into the game long before anyone could establish any affection for the character. Like all of the companions, she isn't perfect and the degree of her flaws is open to interpretation. Players love and hate characters for various reasons across the board, and I've seen vitriol extended to Fenris, Merrill, etc. Clearly something in character development succeeded to make people feel so strongly.

I mentioned this in a previous post- the player has no concrete knowledge of the depth or breadth of Castillon's influence. While in battle, he may have been an easy kill, but pulling the strings of merchants or city governments, he may be incredibly powerful. So not really a hypocrisy. Just something that isn't fully fleshed out.

[Tirfan]

Umm.. http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Fanservice yeah, Isabela is fanservice in DA2 and will likely return in that role for DA3 as you have no option of killing her and she escapes the Qunari.

[whykikyouwhy]

Fanservice is "giving the fans exactly what they want." Isabela's story was written and established before any fans existed for her - the inability to execute her was already part of the game. Had there been some change in her story post game release due to outcry, that would be different.

I can't speak to what the future holds for her. I'm not a writer or dev, so until they say something, her continuing story is ambiguous at best.

[jlb524]

On these forums, "fanservice" is code for "I don't like it."

[Tirfan]

Oh, I don't like her, that is not the point, but I'd call a female character that doesn't wear pants and has huge boobs and talks about nothing but sex fanservice.. but that may just be me.

[hoorayforicecream]

Tirfan wrote...

Umm.. http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Fanservice yeah, Isabela is fanservice in DA2 and will likely return in that role for DA3 as you have no option of killing her and she escapes the Qunari.

Isabela's appearance and look may have been fanservice, but her story really isn't designed to titillate or excite. Most people I know who actually played the game told me the same thing - "When I started, I thought she was just fanservice, but after she came back I really started to like her a lot." I'm sorry you didn't feel that way, but given the depth and subtlety to her character, I found her one of the best written characters in the game.

Tirfan wrote...

Oh, I don't like her, that is not the point, but I'd call a female character that doesn't wear pants and has huge boobs and talks about nothing but sex fanservice.. but that may just be me.

She doesn't talk about nothing but sex. Did you just get a negative initial impression and just not play with her at all or something? 

Modifié par hoorayforicecream, 06 juillet 2011 - 05:25 .

[jlb524]

Tirfan wrote...

Oh, I don't like her, that is not the point, but I'd call a female character that doesn't wear pants and has huge boobs and talks about nothing but sex fanservice.. but that may just be me.

You don't like her and loads of others don't either....it seems most of these people don't like her because she is sexual.   These fans aren't being serviced.   Therefore, Isabela cannot be a pure fanservice character.

[upsettingshorts]

There's a difference between a character that teases the protagonist and a character that teases the player.

The former is perfectly fine because their sexuality and sex appeal is IC. The latter is fanservice because it's basically the design trying to titillate the player.

Isabela's character is consistent. She knows exactly what she's doing and why.

[FieryDove]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Isabela's character is consistent. She knows exactly what she's doing and why.

I would disagree with that, if she was she wouldn't have brought the book back. Or maybe not stolen it in the first place depending on how one views her.

[upsettingshorts]

FieryDove wrote...

I would disagree with that, if she was she wouldn't have brought the book back. Or maybe not stolen it in the first place depending on how one views her.

Neither has anything whatsoever to do with her consistent approach to sex, sexuality, and her obvious total lack of "body shame." 

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 06 juillet 2011 - 05:50 .

[Tirfan]

HoorayForIceCream: Didn't play with her at all, just got enough friendship and boinked her once, couldn't be bothered with her after that, but that is true about most of the characters, I had a constant team of Varric, Aveline and Anders, with Varric and Aveline being the only characters I didn't loathe, and Anders just because I liked him in Awakening...

And I'm probably offtopic..

jlb54; I have nothing as a person against people being sexually active or being open about it, I know I am, but Isabela just put me off perhaps because my initial reaction to her was that she was purely an fanservice-character (or an attempt as such character) but finding out about that would probably require to go trough another playtrough of the game and weell... not going to happen.

[upsettingshorts]

Samara's outfit was fanservice, to give an example. It has nothing to do with the rest of her character, and the player can look "HEY LOOK BOOBS AND HEELS."

Isabela is sexy and knows it. That's part of her whole point. It might seem like pandering, sure, but to me she doesn't come off as a cynical construct in the way fanservice does.

[Rifneno]

mousafiriain wrote...

It always seemed obvious to me that despite it's excesses (necessary harshness in a world like this?) the qun is the only force actually improving people's lives in Thedas. A little bit of light piercing the medieval darkness of the rest of the world. If you had to live anywhere in Thedas as an average joe where would you choose, lowtown kirkwall ? tevinter? or the qunari lands? No contest really. The chantry is a caricature of the worst elements of the middle-ages catholic church, whereas the qun draws from elements of Buddhist/Confucian/Socialist/Islamic thought, all of which i "believe in" to a greater or lesser extent IRL, which probably colors my view.

Little less Buddha, little more Stalin. And to answer your question, I'd rather be ****ing dead than live in qunari land. Nothing is worth totalitarianism.

Tirfan wrote...

Oh, I don't like her, that is not the point, but I'd call a female character that doesn't wear pants and has huge boobs and talks about nothing but sex fanservice.. but that may just be me.

You just described 90% of women in the fantasy genre, at least as far as dress and physical design. I think Meredith is the only woman I've seen that fights in something that looks even vaguely appropriate for battle.

jlb524 wrote...

On these forums, "fanservice" is code for "I don't like it."

Act III was fanservice?!

[upsettingshorts]

Rifneno wrote...

You just described 90% of women in the fantasy genre, at least as far as dress and physical design. I think Meredith is the only woman I've seen that fights in something that looks even vaguely appropriate for battle.

Um, Aveline?

[jlb524]

Rifneno wrote...

Act III was fanservice?!

I've seen some say it panders to those with anti-mage sentiments.

Though, most say it was just rushed.

[jlb524]

Tirfan wrote...

jlb54; I have nothing as a person against people being sexually active or being open about it, I know I am, but Isabela just put me off perhaps because my initial reaction to her was that she was purely an fanservice-character (or an attempt as such character) but finding out about that would probably require to go trough another playtrough of the game and weell... not going to happen.

And people are telling you she is sexually open and comfortable with her body, so her presentation makes sense and isn't fanservice.

If you have no further interest in the game/characters then I wonder why you come to these forums to discuss the game/characters.

[caridounette]

 Actually what made my Hawke angry enough to give Isabella to the Arishok isnt the fact that she skipped town with the book. Its the fact that she stayed in town so long while knowing what the Qunaris wer after. She lied to Hawke more then once, let him risk his life, plain wasted his time, etc on a long period of time. Its not a one time 'oups' or a 'im sorry about what i did last week' its been going on for years. Its more then just a thief acting like a thief, theres something personal to it after that long. 

[Tirfan]

jlb524 wrote...

Tirfan wrote...

jlb54; I have nothing as a person against people being sexually active or being open about it, I know I am, but Isabela just put me off perhaps because my initial reaction to her was that she was purely an fanservice-character (or an attempt as such character) but finding out about that would probably require to go trough another playtrough of the game and weell... not going to happen.

And people are telling you she is sexually open and comfortable with her body, so her presentation makes sense and isn't fanservice.

If you have no further interest in the game/characters then I wonder why you come to these forums to discuss the game/characters.

I usually keep to the bash-DA2 thread nowadays, but sometimes I get that feeling I need to bash the characters.. and I'll give it to you, sometimes these replys I get are actually quite good and I appreciate them, gives me something to think about at least, and I may have at some points (and I am a man enough to do so) admit that I may have been too hasty on my judgement or even wrong. So, while I may have entered this thread once again with a wrong attitude, and perhaps been very hostile in my presentation, I just do that sometimes, my apologies to any and all I may have offended.
And I'd still argue that at least the presentation in the beginning goes so over the top it is too easy to just brand her as fanservice instead of an actual character - and first impressions do mean quite a lot, bit like when you first met Morrigan - while she was wearing rather revealing clothes, the way she acted and everything told me she wasn't just a pair of boobs.

[Rifneno]

Mash Mashington wrote...

It fits the lore perfectly though. You see, the older Asari is the less she wears. Remember Benezia? Matriarchs just can't contain all the boob

Samara depresses me. Not Samara herself, though her story is pretty heart-wrenching. I'm just saddened (and scared!) to learn I live in a society chock full of people who can't understand why a woman whose uterus is a gateway to hell doesn't want a physical relationship with them.

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Um, Aveline?

Okay, perhaps I overstated a bit. But only a bit. Aveline's guard chain is fairly appropriate, though it needs some head protection badly. Her original outfit, the one she has before joining the guard, was certainly not battle appropriate though. Especially for monsters whose blood is an extremely potent poison.

You know, that brings up another point I've always wondered. If darkspawn blood and lyrium is so lethal, why don't we use them in poisonmaking?

jlb524 wrote...

I've seen some say it panders to those with anti-mage sentiments.

Though, most say it was just rushed.

The common belief. I don't see it as rushed honestly. Its problems were ones inherent to the story. Another month in development may have fixed some grammatical errors but the entire basis for the game was Anders and Meredith doing what they did (and Elthina not doing what she didn't?). Probably Orsino too. It was too set in stone for a bit more time on the drawing board to fix most of the core complaints with it, those being the lack of choices that would have potentially stopped the madness. Honestly... Act III was doomed from the moment Varric started telling Cassandra about it. The other acts weren't as bad because they weren't what Varric was being questioned for. But this disaster is the whole basis for the game and all roads had to led to Rome.

[whykikyouwhy]

@Tirfan - to go slightly offtopic, that is inherently something that many women struggle with and battle against. If you show a bit of skin ("too much" being subjective), you get branded x, y, or z. You happen to enjoy sex and chat with friends about it, you get labeled all sorts of nastiness. So in that regard, Isabela is the embodiment of there being more than meets the eye, she is much more than the packaging. Her appearance is of a voluptuous woman who is comfortable with her body and beneath that surface, she possesses deeper character qualities.

I don't know for certain, but I would like to think that Bioware took that into consideration when creating her.

[maxernst]

Rifneno wrote...

Mash Mashington wrote...

It fits the lore perfectly though. You see, the older Asari is the less she wears. Remember Benezia? Matriarchs just can't contain all the boob

Samara depresses me. Not Samara herself, though her story is pretty heart-wrenching. I'm just saddened (and scared!) to learn I live in a society chock full of people who can't understand why a woman whose uterus is a gateway to hell doesn't want a physical relationship with them.

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Um, Aveline?

Okay, perhaps I overstated a bit. But only a bit. Aveline's guard chain is fairly appropriate, though it needs some head protection badly. Her original outfit, the one she has before joining the guard, was certainly not battle appropriate though. Especially for monsters whose blood is an extremely potent poison.

You know, that brings up another point I've always wondered. If darkspawn blood and lyrium is so lethal, why don't we use them in poisonmaking?

jlb524 wrote...

.

Lyrium is too expensive and darkspawn blood can take a long time to kill (remember Ruck?).  I'm assuming the instant death associated with the Joining is because the Darkspawn blood is mixed with the essence of the Archdemon.